Replies

1. 
   Pondfish | Jan 11, 2006 09:20pm | #1

   There are two kinds of wedged through tenons--a knock-down joint or one that is meant to be permanent.  Since you are gluing the joint, I'll assume your tenon is either slightly proud or flush with the mortised piece. 

   You can leave the tenons proud about 1/32-1/64" and then plane, scrape or chisel them flush, which will remove any glue from the end grain. 

   Better still is to go easy on the glue and apply it on surfaces away from the exposed joint.  I don't feel you need to glue the wedges, but you can by applying a small bit of epoxy to the point of the wedge, and carefully inserting it so it doesn't leave glue on the end of the tenon.

   Anytime you have glue "running everywhere" means you have applied too much glue.  A well fitting M/T joint requires only a thin filem applied to mated surfaces, not a heavy bead.

   Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005
1. 
   CWilson | Jan 13, 2006 04:35am | #2

   Thanks for the help.  Would it be improper to stain the wood first?  to avoid any slight runout?

1. 
   BG | Jan 13, 2006 05:18am | #3

   CWilson,
   I finished the pieces before the glue-up putting tape over the areas that would come in contact with glue. It made cleanup very easy and, yes, I use too much epoxy too.

2. 
   Pondfish | Jan 13, 2006 05:21am | #4

   Staining or finishing before assembly is often a smart way to go.  You need to ensure that you don't get any finish on surfaces that will be glued, if the finish interferes with glueing (e.g., oil, varnish, lacquer will prevent glue from sticking to wood).  Oil-based stains are likely to interfere, but you can try glueing some stained scraps first. Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005

2. 
   Dano | Jan 14, 2006 07:31am | #5

   I would agree that having glue dripping everwhere is an indication of too much glue...

   But in dealing with squeeze out, it's best to deal with it after it has skimmed over, a plastic putty knife will peel it right off.

   IMNSHO, finishing is best done after assembly; hence the name of the process.  Part of this process and certainly the first step in it is preparing for the actual finish, either through the use of sanding papers or planes and scrapers.  Frankly, I can't think of any type of piece where one would want to finish prior to assembly.

   On the other hand, if it's a piece that has major sub-assemblies, then I'd prep them for the finish, assemble, then apply the finish....FWIW.

   Dano

   "Form and Function are One" - Frank Lloyd Wright
1. 
   CWilson | Jan 14, 2006 08:43pm | #6

   This question extends from the other.  This is my first time to build a piece with mortise and tenon joinery.  Should I try to get glue on the shoulders of the tenon or just the actual tenon itself?  Thanks again for the help guys.

1. 
   Dano | Jan 14, 2006 09:12pm | #7

   Just the tenon itself, no need to "coat" the entire tenon either, just the bottom quarter.  As the tenon is slid in any squeeze out will occur where the shoulders meet the mortise.

   Dano"Form and Function are One" - Frank Lloyd Wright

2. 
   Pondfish | Jan 14, 2006 11:13pm | #8

   You get little structural strength from an end grain to face grain joint, so there is no structural reason to glue the shoulders.  However, if this is your first M/T work, you might have a thin gap that a glue line would hide.  There's no penalty to having the glue there, despite not deriving any strength from it.

   The advice that assembly should always precede finishing runs counter to the generally accepted practices of the craft and industry.  There's no badge given out for trying to finish pieces where assembly has created a myriad of nooks and crannies (well, maybe the work-harder-not-smarter badge).  Read or learn anything from the masters and they will stress that there are times you definitely want to finish a piece before assembly.  It depends on the finish you are applying; obviously if you are fuming Mission style oak furniture, you assemble then fume.  But if you want to mimic the effect of a fumed finish with a stain, you won't want to try to stain all the spindles after the piece is together, as you'll get a messy finish that was awkward to apply.

   Another nice benefit of finishing first is that glue squeeze-outs pop right off of a finished surface.

    Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005

1. 
   Dano | Jan 15, 2006 08:02am | #9

   The advice that assembly should always precede finishing runs counter to the generally accepted practices of the craft and industry.

   Really?  First I've heard of that in the 30+  years that I've been building furniture and cabinets for a living....You are right about the badges, however.  Though I can't imagine it being a time saver to mask off those myriad of parts that you allude to prior to the assembly...

   Dano"Form and Function are One" - Frank Lloyd Wright

1. 
   Pondfish | Jan 15, 2006 09:05am | #10

   Actually, if any masking has to be done, it is much faster to do the masking than the time spent trying to get a brush and/or cloth into tight corners or between spindles later.  The staining or other finish comes out much more even, too.

   One piece I make often is a shadowbox, sort of like the old printers' type boxes.  It has a semi-gloss shellac finish that would be impossible to do after assembly. Shellacking strips of wood prior to jointing (much less assembly) saves considerable time, requires no masking, and results in a superior end result.

   Sorry you never heard of this before, but I don't know why you wouldn't.  I run across this (viz., sometimes finish before assembly) often either in FWW or other publications, as well as when discussing work with my woodworking peers.  It doesn't work in all situations (I wouldn't do it to frame pieces when they are coped rail and stiles, though prefinishing the panel avoids many problems if brushing on a finish). But in many applications it works exceedingly well.  I suggest you give it a try. Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005

2. 
   eddiefromaustralia | Jan 15, 2006 10:58am | #11

   Hi Dano,

   It's common over here - to a point.  If you're building a square carcase, the 'polishers' here prefer flat panels - we mask off what's needed and then assemble the unit with care.

   I'm putting together 8 chairs and a table at the moment for a client - chairs are sprayed in finished form, table top is sprayed separately to the leg/subframe assembly.

   Best regards,

   eddie

3. 
   Dano | Jan 15, 2006 07:42pm | #12

   In regard to panels, particularly when they "float" I'd agree but, only to the degree of staining.

   By referencing FWW, I assume this is the same magizine  that had an article a few years back that recommended sanding after final smoothing with hand planes and scrapers prior to finishing?

   Dano

    "Form and Function are One" - Frank Lloyd Wright