Amazon was having a sale on Freud blades last week so I picked up a blade to use as a spare. With the blade I received a free Freud blade stabilizer (3 1/2 “)
I installed the stabilizer on my table saw with my Forrest WWII blade. They come two in a pack, but I only wanted to use one so I didn’t have to recalibrate everything. I installed one on the right side of the blade and the weird thing is it shifted the blade over to the left (toward the arbor) by about a 1/16” more then it was without the stabilizer. The only reason why I notice is when I went to re-install my zero clearance insert it would not fit correctly.
Maybe I’m a little thick today, but does anyone know why this would happen?
Replies
Did you remove any other washers from the arbor when you put the Freud stabilizer on? (Left tilt saw, eh?)
i tried the same thing and yes the single stabilizer did "dish" the blade
always use stabilizers in pairs
also watch for clearences especially at variuos bevel angles
my leevalley stabilizers will not allow 45 bevels on my ridgid 3650
Does this one have rubber O rings set into the inner face? I have seen those but mine is just a flat disc of steel. The ones with the O rings do need to be used in pairs. They state that in their instructions, IIRC.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
there are no rubber orings, just 4 inch cupped steel washers
No difference in the effect, though. I have flat stabilizers but have seen the cupped ones as well as the ones with O rings but don't remember the maker. As long as the surface in contact with the blade is offset from the blade, it's going to deform the blade.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
If I read your problem correctly, you used only one stabilizer and the arbor flange is likely to be smaller in diameter. If that's the case the larger washer when tightened will force a 'dish' into the blade giving the impression that the blade has moved over. Use the stabilizers as a pair only, or don't use them at all. If you want to verify if there is a dishing of the blade, raise it to full height and put a straight edge along the left and right side. It will be obvious if I'm right.
They must be used in pairs. Really, there's probably no need to even use them! Install the blade without them, and don't worry about it unless you have problems. IMHO, the stabilizers and stiffeners (which you use one at a time, I think) are pretty much passe with the improved engineering of blades.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I thought Forrest still recommends them, though. Maybe just to sell their own, but if a rubber ring can deflect it enough to cause dishing, the force from cutting wood will make it move more if there's no stabilizer. Having a 4" section that's 3 times the blade blank's thickness at the center does make the blade a lot stiffer.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Hold the houses a minute here. I have seen several of you say to always use the stabilizers in pairs. Being as up till a month or so ago I had never used a stabilizer I will take your word for it. However I then have an issue. I picked up a WW2 at the local wood show and the nice lady behind the counters (that appears to have been full of beans on several things I might add) said that I needed a stabilizer with this blade. So being as they were on sale I said what the heck give me the blade and what ever I need. So out I went purchase in hand. Now if I need two stabilizers then why did she sell me only one? and are you telling me that for the price I paid for the thing I needed to buy a second? If that is the case I would NOT have bought the blade. Or should I have gotten two of them for that price?
Maybe I should contact the maker of the tool. Just as an aside this was a direct sale.
Doug Meyer
There are two different types of "stabilizers" or "stiffeners" being marketed. One is the single flat plate (ala Forrest) which only adds mass to the spinning blade to reduce vibration.The second is two cupped washers or two washers with a machined, raised rim (ala Freud and others). The raised rim grips the blade between the two rims adding stiffness and mass. This type of stabilizer MUST be used in pairs or it will deform the blade--sometimes permanently--when you tighten it. The two component stabilizers will also move the blade toward the outside of the arbor.Howie.........
It's hard to imagine any manufacturer making a blade that "must" have stabilizers. Remember also that the blade is "thicker" at the outside than it is in the middle. Even with no stabilizers, you could get a change that would affect your ZC insert if difference between thickness at the arbor and kerf were not the same as the old blade.Pete
I cannot beat the "pete", and simply have to logically concurr with him that no blade mfgr is gonna flog a blade that requires stabilizers. It just don't make sense once you even give an iota of thought to how and why folks make circular saw blades.And if some blades really require it , it ain't likely gonna be the saw blade that requires stabilization, but rather trashy bearings/bushings on the arbor or a really worn arbor, or both. And a mech. eng. case could be made any stabilizer ain't working on the saw blade, just rather on the inherent instability of the arbor, and even if the mass of the stabilizer was sufficient to dampen "free spinning" vibration, there's likely a substantially overwhelming arguement to be made that any dampening of vibration might not be sustainable under load, and for that matter that the vibration dampening or the stabilization of the saw-plate under load might even be working against the tensioning of the saw-plate designed into it at the mfging level, and thus working at cross-purposes to the design and efficiency of the blade (assuming sharpness) Methinks that with the variables in play, that the actual proof of the puddin is in the actual accuracy of the cut, not the run out of the blade at hand-rotation speeds. And while it's all well and good to toss a dial indicator on a blade at hand rotation speed, only a fool would try it on a spinnging blade. And certainly no way that anyone can measure runout etc when the blade is actually cutting. Ergo, there is no concievable way, to my pea-brain, short of some bizarre CSI-woodshop methodology for anyone to measure saw-blade performance without looking at the finished cut, and as all wood is different, even in the same species, you get to a point of accuracy, and take it any further you get on the slope of fruitless returns (the perfect solution for one stick of lumber might not likely be the perfect solution for the next stick)Go shopping for a new Ts with a vernier caliper and see how much slop there is on what is supposed to be a 5/8 (.625)" arbor, particularly when you have to put a dado blade on it, like extending 3/4" from the shoulder of the arbour.Or for that matter, just check for slop on yer existing arbor with a dial indicator, you may be suprised. Belt and motor holds it in tension in one position, but once that is removed, the true slop is revealed, just as it might be under "hard-cutting" conditions. toss in a dull blade, with resultant circumfrential heating beyond design specs, and heck ya, stabilizers might make a positive difference. I used to use em with HSS blades back bout 25 years ago, still got em, but they ain't seen the light of day for 20 years or so. Maybe back then I tended to " push" the life expectancy of sharpness on the blade, which of course leads to circumfeeential heating, and when them old HSS saw blades got overheated, you knew it, they turned into random width wobble dado blades. Maybe I learned something along the years, possibly recognizing when a blade is dull, but I ain't seen that occurance for a long time.Anyway, I ain't used stabilizers for a cuppla decades now. Prefer to use sharp saw blades instead.Maybe I been missing the boat all along! Eric in Cowtown
I purchased a WWII directly from Forrest (not at a show) several years ago. I spoke with the sales guy about stabilizers and decided to buy one. He said the official Forrest recommendation is to use just one. Their thinking is that while the stabilizer improves performance, it is also desirable to keep the blade right next to the arbor flange.I can't say that adding the stabilizer improves performance dramatically, but it helps some. Of course you have to live with a reduction in cut depth capacity.Mike
I use a CMT 4" stiffner with thin kerf blades as it appears to me to reduce blade deflection in very dense stock from every indication I have witnessed. It is mounted just inside the arbor nut. The down side being it will reduce the height the blade can be raised for a cut. But that's OK with me as anything I rip over 2" the call for my Band-saw is made.
Personally I see no need to use a stiffner (single) or the smaller diameter stabalizers (used in pairs) on regular thickness blades unless..... your stock washers are not machined flat. You can either flatten the stock washers or add the stabalizers with the first being cheaper. And I would check for flat on stabilzers or stiffners before I purchased them as I have seen some as sloppily machined as some of the stock washers I have encountered.
Regards...
SARGE.. jt
I have yet to notice a difference with the stabilizers on or off. The higher quality blades don't seem to need them IME. They're a good profit maker for the manufacturer's though... ;-)
Wow. I was out working in my shop all day (my father-in-law gave me an old Delta-Rockwell 40-440 jig saw and I was playing) never expected to have so many replies.
I’ll try to answer everyone at once.
The Freud stabilizer does have a lip (no rubber “O” ring) and when using only one it does dish the blade over. I didn’t want to use both because I don’t want the hassle of re-calibrating if I cut thicker stock. I decided to ditch them since I got them free anyway
I never had any problems using the blade without a stiffener. I only wanted to try it to see if it improved anything. The Forest blade cuts so good I can't imagine it making it that much better. Not worth the hassle for me right now.
Steve, I have the 3650 also.
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