Replies

1. 
   JimP | Sep 17, 1999 05:10pm | #1

   *
   Dear T.A.
   The finish you are requesting answers for really depend on what you are trying too acheive. However,Linseed oil which comes from a flax seed, is more desireable if used in it's raw form as apposed to the boiled version. Anyone with experience will tell you that raw linseed oil will harden off better than the boiled version which doesn't seem too harden as well as the boiled linseed oil.When using either raw or boiled you should apply it warm by immersing a container in a pot of hot water. To make this even easier to apply let your container warm up in a pot of hot water for about a half hour. Stir in a capful of pure turpentine and mix well while keeping it warm. Most newcomers tend to put too much on at first so you don't really want to flood your surface. A fine shoe brush works even beter whereby you would scrub it in to the grain then find a flat heavy object such as a small brick and wrap it with flannel or a good cotten cloth and be prepared to get a workout. Rub this into the surface using lots of pressure and elbow grease be prepared to work up a sweat and reapeat this process once a day for about two weeks. As you have described, Oak will always take more oil but you must follow this process in order to acheive a desireable natural finish. Oak tends to take on a beautiful lustre when this type of finish is used. Once this is done follow up with this process at least once a year to maintain this finish. One drawback to this finish is that Oak has alot of tannic acid in it naturally which if something wet gets on the surface and it is not taken off immediately will leave an ugly black spot which could be difficult to remove.
   Experiment on some scrap first if you can and good luck and i truly hope this helps you.
   JimP

1. 
   Drew_Sumrell | Sep 19, 1999 08:19am | #2

   *T.A., two advantages of a boiled linseed oil finish over a varnish is that it is easier to apply and repair. You don't have to worry about dust while the finish is drying either. On the other hand, varnish is a much tougher finish than any of the natural oils and is much better suited for pieces that may get hard use such as table tops. Sometimes, though, you just may want the look and feel of an oil finish. It is easy to repair and you can add another coat at any time.I love the soft luster and feel of a good oil finish, but I usually use tung oil instead of linseed. Linseed will soften if exposed to moisture or is in an environment of high humidity. Once tung oil hardens, it stays hard. Tung oil dries by oxidation, not evaporation and is the most durable of the natural oils. Don't be in a great hurry though, because it takes tung oil a few days to cure unless you add some dryers to it. Be sure and use a pure form of any oil if you are going to use it on items where food will come into contact, ie. bowls, utensils or cutting boards. A linseed oil finish or a stain that has linseed oil in it will also darken over time. Tung oil will tend to stay the same as when applied.Each type of finish has its time and place, but if you haven't used oil as a finish, give it a try sometime.

1. 
   Howard_Acheson | Sep 19, 1999 11:48pm | #3

   *>>However,Linseed oil which comes from a flax seed, is more desireable if used in it's raw form as apposed to the boiled version. Anyone with experience will tell you that raw linseed oil will harden off better than the boiled version which doesn't seem too harden as well as the boiled linseed oil.You are incorrect on this. Raw linseed oil will never harden. Boiled linseed oil contains metallic driers and will cure in from 24 - 48 hours.As to using linseed oil as a finish. All things considered linseed oil is one of the poorest finishes you can use. It provides no protection to the wood and will turn very dark over time. As an intermediate finish to highlight the grain, it works well. For protection finish with varnish after letting the linseed oil completely cure.For an "oil type" finish, a Watco oil finish works well. You can make you own by mixing varnish, linseed oil and mineral spirits in equal amounts. Apply heavily, let sit for 15-30 minutes and wipe completely dry. Apply a second coat 12-24 hours later. This finish will highlight the grain and will provide minimal protection due to the varnish it contains. For high use areas, apply two coats of varnish for protection.

1. 
   JimP | Sep 20, 1999 01:07pm | #4

   *While most of my answers too this forum are based on methods I have used for over twenty years now,I don't see first of all anywhere that T.A. asked the question regarding TUNG OIL? Mr. Acheson you claim that linseed oil is a poor oil of choice. My first question to you Sir is what is your basis for this response? Do you really know the difference between raw and boiled linseed oil? Do you know what the chemical breakdown is? Why is tung oil more widely used now even by paint mfgrs. then linseed oil? What about True DANISH OIL is this inferior also? The method I have described to T.A. is a method that has been around since before the sixteenth century. Was it inferior then? I have had the fortunate pleasure of repairing antiques from the eighteenth century that I know for a fact had nothing more than linseed oil on them. They were without a doubt very well preserved. The natural Patina as it is known unless I am wrong on this also, was far superior than anything produced today. Oil finshes of any nature are soft to begin with and really provide no protection to UV rays or resistance to other wet chemicals including water. But I am sure this is wrong also? The great Masters of the past V.J.Taylor,Carlyle Lynch,Franklin Gothshall, just to name a few all wrote brilliant books describing this method as well. Some of them even had the pleasure of working in the Wallace Nutting studios where this method was also used. The Master,s I learned this from all used it as well. Were they all wrong? If so then some very well known publishers should be sued for printing this technique as it has been around alot longer than you and I. Books of this nature are still in print today in case your wondering. I have repaired Linseed oil finishes many times and never have I witnessed a problem except for the fact that like any oil finish is very soft in nature. But I am sure you will find this to be in-correct also. Once again T.A. asked the question regarding Linseed Oil not Tung Oil so how do you qualify your response? Please provide us all with the data so we know that we are wrong? Like I stated this is an open forum for Amateurs and Professionals to exchange information and ideas regarding woodworking. It is not a forum for Know-it-Alls. Please provide us with your research. Thank you!!!

1. 
   Paul_First_Finish | Sep 21, 1999 05:38am | #5

   *T.A. Hall;There are some key differences between boiled linseed oil and varnish. Boiled linseed oil does "harden" in a day or two (unlike raw linseed oil which takes many days). But oil finishes are thinner and softer than all film finishes (shellac, lacquer, varnish, etc.) and therefore offer less protection against wear, heat, scratches, water, and household chemicals. Some oil finishes, like tung oil, often contain some varnish to give tham added protection (unless the can says "Pure tung oil"). An oil finish is attractive, easy to apply (wipe on - wipe off), and easy to repair (wipe on - wipe off) but does not protect the wood very well.Varnish has the characteristics of offering very good protection against heat, wear, water, solvent, acid, and alkali resistance. Polyurethane is a type of varnish.To learn more about these finishes and a lot more, I highly recommend the book "Understanding Wood Finishing" by Bob Flexner. He dispells many common myths about wood finishing and explains in detail how and why various finish components work individually and together.

2. 
   david_sorg | Sep 21, 1999 08:45am | #6

   *T.A.,The best answers have come from Paul. Some of the others are a matter of semantics, others are plain wrong. Linseed oil is a poor finish in most cases. The ancients used it because it was all they had available. Do you think they would have used power tools if they could have? Use boiled, not raw for any interior use. It won't blacken with time, -if that were true, you couldn't look at any paintings by the Dutch masters which used plenty of oil. Because it's a soft finish it will hold dirt which makes it look as if it's darkening.Otherwise most so-called oil finishes are really a combination of oil and resin and solvent, a.k.a. varnish. Varnishes are a much better choice of finish for any piece which will see use by handling of any kind. The book recommended by Paul is superior in its descriptions of various products and their applications.

3. 
   Howard_Acheson | Sep 22, 1999 07:33pm | #7

   *>>I don't see first of all anywhere that T.A. asked the question regarding TUNG OIL?Nor did I mention Tung oil in my response.>>Do you really know the difference between raw and boiled linseed oilYes, raw linseed oil contains no additives. "Boiled" linseed oil was really boiled in the old days to promote polymerzation (curing). Now, metallic driers are added to accomplish the same thing.>>What about True DANISH OIL is this inferior also?Did I say anything about "Danish Oil"? But, to respond, any "Danish Oil" I have ever used is either an oil(linseed or pure tung)/varnish/mineral spirits product or in some cases a thinned varnish. "Danish Oil" is a generic name for a finish that first appeared on Scandavanian teak furniture during the early '60's.>>method that has been around since before the sixteenth century. Was it inferior then?It was all they had. Compared to modern finishes, it is certainly inferior. It offers no water or water vapor protection to wood. It will darken over time to the almost black patina that is seen on antique furniture. If you want to create that look today, you can use dyes or stains or wait 200 years.If you will read Mr. Hall's original post more carefully, you will see he asked about the "protective" qualities of linseed oil vs. varnish. There is no question that varnish is a more protective coating than linseed oil-in the humble opinion of this 20 year professional woodworker and finisher. I suggest you read some the other responses and you will see I am not alone. You may also want to read some books by currently living masters such as Bob Flexner's Understanding Finishing and Jeff Jewett's Hand Applied Finishes. You may not agree with them but it should clear up your misunderstanding of "raw" vs. "boiled" linseed oil.

4. 
   MLP | Sep 29, 1999 09:59pm | #8

   *Howard,You are quite correct. The only thing I'd like to add is that there is a true boiled linseed oil on the market which contains no metalic dryers. Its put out by Tried and True. I use it as a first coat to bring out the depth in the grain, and usually follow up with a shellac or an oil/varnish top coat. I also use it on food contact surfaces due to its non-toxicity.-Mike

5. 
   K._G. | Oct 05, 1999 09:59pm | #9

   *I'm looking for any information regarding a Oil type finish that will help protect and preserve outdoor mahogany furniture. Any recommendations and techniques would be welcome.K.G.

6. 
   Howard_Acheson | Oct 05, 1999 10:57pm | #10

   *Oil finishes do not hold up well outdoors. Ask any boater who battles with teak. Oil has very poor resistance to water. Many teak oils will contain varnish to attempt to increase the life of the finish but annual cleaning and reapplication is required.For a clear finish, spar varnish will work the best. It's designed to be flexible allowing the wood to expand and contract as it will in the outdoor environment. In addition, it contains UV inhibitors to protect the finish and wood from sunlight. Keep in mind though, nothing is forever outdoors. The spar varnish will still need a re-coating annually and a stripping and refinishing every 4 - 5 years.

7. 
   ribburg | Nov 15, 1999 04:32am | #11

   *Hi all,I've been seeing a lot of linseed oil here. Could someone tell me whether linseed oil has delayed effect due to long-term exposure, something like brain or nervous system damages?Thanks a lot.

8. 
   RJT_ | Nov 23, 1999 07:26am | #12

   *Howard: I agree with all of your response and would add that some people color the mineral spirits/linseed oil concoction with artists oil colors like raw umber and burnt sienna. Some of them think that turpentine should be used instead of mineral spirits, and also some add japan drier.