What are you heating your shop with !!!!
Hello All !!! I have a question I would like to put to all of you. I have a shop its about 16′ wide by about 60′ long with a 9′ ceiling . 2 exposed walls are 16′ X 9″, one has a man door and the other has a overhead garage door. the other exposed wall is about 60′ x9′ with one man door and 4 windows approximately 30″ x 54”. The other wall 9′ x 60′ is on a unheated area. In the past winter I was heating with a wood stove, and again so far this year.
I checked my insurance policy and I can not use the wood stove.
Now The place does have a oil furnace, but as per the by-laws I would have to replace the oil tank, and do some duct work, and then have it inspected.As I am only renting this space I don’t feel I want to spend a lot of money I don’t have.
My question to you all is what do you use to heat your workshop ( palace) do you heat with wood, oil, or propane and what kind of a furnace do you have. I am leaning towards a propane furnace.
Thanks for any and all help.
Jack
Replies
I don't think this will help you any, but I ran pipes from my house furnace to the shop. I use oil heat. The radiators on my second floor were completely unnecessary, so I took them out, and used two of them in there. I had a plumber hook them up with separate valves and thermostat and all that.
ne sutor ultra crepidam
Living in Montana it can get a little chilly and I have recently installed an Empire Direct vent Wall mount propane heater. It uses outside are for combustion so no worries about vapors and dust. I just cut a hole in the wall and hung it up. Runs off a thermostat and is pretty efficient. I still have to insulate but this little unit keeps my 20 x 20 garage in the mid 60's easy enough.
i heat my shop with a 240 volt 4500 watt electrical construction site heater, works great although my double car garage is quite a bit smaller.
Easy to install though, just a breaker, some cable and an outlet
at 10 c a kwh, thats 45 c an hour
it will heat my garage from -10 to 60 degrees in about 2 hours and maintain it with minimal run time, maybe 5 minutes an hour ( a pretty wild guess)
the garage is minimally insuated, r12 all over and a 2 reasonably weather stripped garage doors, however it is also attached to the house on one wall
the heater cost me about 60 bucks plus maybe another 50 for the electrical stuff, the install was inspected for another 70, inspector had me install one more cable staple!!
steve,i heat my shop with a 240 volt 4500 watt electrical construction site heater
I just thought I'd share my experience with these heaters in my own shop. I had my shop in an 18' x 20' attached garage. Fully insulated. I live in Calgary Canada, and from about November-March heating is a necessity if I want to work. Temperatures range from 5C (41F) to -30C (-22F) with wind chills (we are blessed with a few days of warmth here each month caused by the Chinooks winds). I used the same heater as you in my shop up until last January.
I was working on a project during the afternoon and had a glueup going. My usual practice was to keep the heater on for this type of work. I left the shop about 6:00pm, and checked back in around 1:00am (late Christmas party at the house). Everything was fine. I went to bed and when I when to put some garbage in the garage I noticed that there was a bit of a chill. I flicked the heater, but nothing. That's when I saw the burn marks.
The element had 'burst' in the night, and the fan of course had blown the molten metal chunks out the front. There were little burn marks on the MDF cabinet where the chunks had landed, and the heavy plastic tool boxes on the floor in front of the cabinet still had metal chunks embedded in the top.
I was very lucky. Had it landed in a pile of shavings or sawdust the situation would be completely different. I'd be out a shop, and a home!
I think if the heater is only on when you're in the shop, that's fine. But as for maintaining any shop temperature when your not around. No way. I recommend that anyone looking into shop heating: Spend the money get it done properly. We spend thousands on tools, get proper heating to protect them and yourself. It was easy for me to get natural gas out there, and that's what I did. It's actually cheaper to run the NG heater than the electrical and of course it heats everything up much faster. Now that I'm moving to a new shop. I'm going straight for the NG heater.
your warning is absolutely correct, i never leave the shop with the heater on unattended and the same should apply to most other heating methods with open elements or flame, there are just too amny flammables in all of our workshops
btw, my garage is equipped with hardwired smoke detectors that will sound the alarms in the house as well
I have never been comfortable with leaving a heater on in my woodworking shop for any length of time with I am not around. All of that wood, wood dust and a heat source??? No thanks! Glad your shop (and home) didn't go up!Tom Hintz
Because there is always more to learn!
I use a Stanley No. 32 transitional jointer plane (26 inches long).. as I get warmer...
Jack, maybe you have already researched other insurance companies, but if not I would!
My insurer for my shop and business had no issue at all with having a wood stove for heat.
My shop is 24' x 58',all heated with the wood stove. There is a seperated office that I use a small electric hydronic heater.
Hello Billsams,
I would sure like to know who your insurance company is. I have been locked in a struggle with my homeowners insurance over the same subject. I built my new shop (36' x 55' non-commercial operation)with the intent of using a wood/coal stove for heat. Coal is pretty economical here in Pennsylvania. Being very safety conscious and a firefighter to boot, I included a masonry chimney with liner, double thick wall thimbles, triple wall insulate pipe from the stove to the thimble, a raised ceramic tile base under the stove and a brick wall behind the stove, spaced three inches from the wall framing. I even installed a thermometer between the brick wall and the wall framing to monitor the temp. in that area. Regardless of the precautions I took, my insurance guy told me they will cancel my homeowners if I didn't remove the stove within seven days. It's beginning to get cold here in Pennsylvania and I don't have a permanant solution to this problem. I've been pricing outdoor furnaces but don't like what I'm finding.
Any words of wisdom would be welcome.
P.S. I interviewed five other insurance companies who wouldn't even take me as a customer as long as I have the stove installed in my shop.
Best Regards,
BillB
Hi Bill,Sounds as if you did everything right in building a safe heating system and in my mind there would be no reason for an insurance company refuse to insure you.That said..."Cincinnatti Insurance" is the parent company who I have my business and shop insurance with. This is through a local insurer called "Cabell-Bankers Insurance".My home insurance is through "USAA" in San Antonia, TX. They have insurerd my home with which my main source of heat is a wood cook stove. I built my home in 1981 and USAA were the only ones at that time that were not hung up a having an alternate source of heat ie heat pump, etc.I bring USAA in the picture because "they will not" insure a business, but will insure a shop if not used for a business.One other avenue might be "Pennsylvania Lumbermans Insurance". I did speak with them breifly and they did not seem to have an issue with wood stove heating.Also check out "CMA, cabinet maker's association". They may have sources of insurance companies to fit your needs...?If you need more contact info for Cincinnatti Insurance, let me know and I will look in my files for contact info.Good luck
jwsjoinery.com
when I started my new shop process and talked to Penn. lumber Ins. co. they had a big issue with a wood stove.
Darrin
I use two of these, in a space a bit bigger than yours:
View Image
Those super-cheap construction heaters always seemed "too good to be true".
It rarely gets super-cold here in western Oregon, so electric heat isn't too bad expense-wise. YMMV.
I just installed a heater similar to what you have pictured. I salvaged it from building being demolished. It is a 240V unit, I think it is rated 3750/5500 watts. Anyway, my questions is, should the heating elements glow red when turned on ?, the unit puts out heat, but I have no way of knowing if it is working properly. Thanks.Rob
The elements in most electric heaters glow red when they are running.
John W.
I used to use a milk house 220 volt heater, 3000w with thermostat, with 3 fan settings. The coiled wires never got red hot, but at the highest setting they would get a straw color. Heated my grage which was 14' x 26'.insulated and at -20degrees I could keep the grage shop at 65 degrees.
Cheaper ones, with less heating wire, will glow hotter at a given power level. That means they also tend not to last as long. Mine does not visibly glow, at least not that I can see with the lights on.
This unit is made by Dayton, which I think is a good manufacturer. I can't complain if it does not last long since I got it for free + the cost of some wire and a breaker.
Jack,
I have a 30 x48 10hi shop R13 wall and R19 ceiling insulated 5/8 Drywall walls and ceilings and have been heating it with a Reznor direct power vent ceiling suspended 75000 btu propane furnace for 10 years. I am a home builder and tinker in the shop with wood working and Harleys.. I keep it at 45 deg in the winter when I am not in it. and in 15 minutes after turning the t stat up to 70 I am tinkering in a t shirt. worried about dust??? dont. I also have a 3000sf laundrymat and its heated with 2 of the same except made by Lennox.... absolutly flawless, no problems... the laundry has lots of dust, a lot more than my shop. I have been where you are, buy a direct power vent furnace, energy eff are high chimney vents through side wall... no roof penetrations! I live in Michigan, yea it gets cold...
Richard
`Several years ago I began a remodel of our house and opted for a geothermal heating system. Last year when my new shop was erected I ran a spur from the geothermal to underfloor pipes in the shop and now have a warm environment to work in, certainly helps to keep the rust at bay. I have a fear of fires and find that this system gives me complete peace of mind. Jim
PS: I live on a small island off the west coast of Ireland, can be stormy during the winter but never too cold, no snow or ice.
Edited 11/15/2007 4:05 am ET by aranman
On Aran? Like Man of Aran?
ne sutor ultra crepidam
Edited 11/15/2007 7:07 am ET by Disputantum
Yes, on the beautiful Aran Islands, I live on Inis Mór, the largest of the three islands at the mouth of Galway Bay. Since we are surrounded by sea and the gulf stream brushes our west coast very slightly, we do not get very cold weather but we do have several severe gales every winter. Anytime you are passing by drop in for a cup of tea or coffee or even something stronger. Jim
Cool. Still get the basking sharks coming by?ne sutor ultra crepidam
Hi All,
I've often wondered why insurance companies think wood stoves ( air tight ) are more of a liability than other types of heating for a wood shop. I know. They probably have some statistics that say so. I think a well maintained and properly installed wood stove should be perfectly safe. Just about as safe as forced air or radiant heat.
Besides being able to burn scraps, I'll throw my oily rags in. Even if I don't have a fire that day, I just let them spontaneously combust if they want.
Plus, there's nothing like a real fire in a workshop ( provided you have a glass door so you can see it ) to inspire old world craftsmanship.
Paul
Edited 11/15/2007 1:59 pm ET by colebearanimals
Hi Paul,
When I was a lot younger I used to frequent Grandas woodshop and he heated his with a woodstove. My job was to pile the scraps in the woodbin next to the stove, ocassionally stoking the fire for him. Many fond memories from those years and he is/was a lot of my inspiration to get started.
You gotta believe many of the shops of the old 18th c. craftsmen were heated that way, how else could they have been? And you'd be surprised how many still heat their shops that way today, think Chris Becksvoort.......
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 11/15/2007 2:53 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Sparky I Use a natural gas wall heater with heating element enclosed It works well and I live in Uptate NY and its pretty cold Maybe propane type wall would be effective
E Lenz
I use a 2001 Maxima for heat<g>
I only get to use one half of a two car garage. My wife comes home in the evening and parks in one half...The heat from the engine keeps the shop (the other half) toasty for the rest of the evening<g>....no really!
Skip
+http://www.ShopFileR.com
Jack:
Since you are renting, you probably don't want to invest in an expensive heating system that you will have to leave behind when you move on.
With that in mind, think first about some inexpensive insulation solutions that can make a big difference. I insulated my garage door with 1" thick foam insulation that I cut to fit each individual section in the door and glued them in place with a foam adheasive. Next, I nailed a flexible vinyl seal around the outside of the garage door, covering the sides and top. (helps to keep bugs and mice out also) If possible, foam, or roll batted insulation should be put on the walls and ceiling. This is also inexpensive and easy to do yourself.
I've done this to my Gainesville Florida garage and on chilly mornings all I need to do is fire up a Sears 20,000 BTU kerosene heater for about a half hour. In my new shop in the Upper Peninsula, where there are long cold winters, I am installing a 35,000 propane heater at a cost of around $1300. I would hate to do something like this for the eventual benefit to a landlord.
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