I’m obviously not a ‘fine woodworker’, but was curious what everyone’s typical sandpaper-grit step ups were?
60-100-120-150-220?
80-100-120-150-180-220-320?
How do you determine the ends of the range? Does it have to have visible blade marks to start with 60? Do you stop in the 100’s, 200’s or go up to 300’s?
jt8
The reason so many people never get anywhere in life is because when opportunity knocks, they are out in the backyard looking for four-leaf clovers. — Walter Percy Chrysler
Edited 3/7/2005 2:05 pm ET by JohnT8
Replies
Hey John,
I'll normally go 120....180....220 and maybe 320. I don't use 80 very often, only if I have some really messed up wood. For a table top and such, I'll usually plane it then go to a light rub with 220 and finish with 320. For some parts( knobs,pulls ect.) made from ebony or some other exotics I may go as high as 400 just to get that extra smooth feel to them. As far as when I change grit, I guess I just go by feel. When it feels consistent with one grit, I move up to the next. One exception to this is when I stain wood(which I don't do often............I like the natural colors mother nature provides) I don't go beyond 220 before staining. I find the stain doesn't penetrate as well if you go smoother than that.
Brent
John,
Ah, sanding...
One of the most frequent mistakes I see is failure to remove mill marks left by jointers and planers - they're a distraction that becomes more prominent once stain and finish are applied, and bespeak amateur woodworking.
They can be removed through sanding (a stationary belt or drum sander does a good job on flat panels); the starting grit depends on the species and condition of the wood surface - usually 80 or 120, followed by 150, 180 and 220. I've found that if I plane or scrape the surface, I can begin the sanding process with 220-grit. Whether I proceed through 320-grit, or even higher, depends on the finish I intend to apply. When I sand-in an oil finish that will be touched, clients tend to prefer smoothness left by 320, 400, or even 600-grit.
Before I apply any stain or finish, I'll wet the wood with mineral spirits, naphtha, alcohol or water (will raise the grain and require re-sanding)so I can see any telltale mill marks that I may not have removed completely.
I hope this is the kind of information you were after.
-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
I usually start with 120 and go through the grits to 320 with a ROS, occasionally 400-600 by hand. Alan & Lynette Mikkelsen, Mountain View Farm, est. 1934, Gardens & Fine Woodworking, St. Ignatius, MT
I've used all the grits you've got listed plus others. Like others have said, how fine you go depends on what you're doing. Some hard/dense hardwoods dont take finish as well if you go much above 220. Other more open-pored woods can benefit from the finer grits. I've occasionally made my own brass hardware and have used 400 thru 1200 grits to get the brass ready for a buffing wheel. On the low end of the scale you basically want to start with the finest grit that will take out the scratches or milling marks. Dont waste a lot of time - If that grit's not working, skip down a couple of grits til you start getting some pretty clear results. You can skip a lot of the lower grit sanding if you use a sharp handplane or scraper first. For woodworking, if I have a choice I'd prefer to use garnet paper vs. aluminum oxide. Doesn't last quite as long but gives you a smoother surface quicker.
I'm assuming that you're asking this question because you'll need to get discs for the DeWalt 421 or 423 that you're contemplating. Klingspor has 2 good combo packs available that would give you 10 each of all the grits you're likely to need for most woodworking. http://www.woodworkingshop.com/cgi-bin/550829AA/mac/template.mac/loadHtmlPage?htmlPage=chart_heavyweight_allpacks.htm
The combo packs are alum. oxide on heavy paper. If you go that route, make a habit of magic-markering the grit on the bottom of the disc when you remove them from the packs. Klingspor makes good discs but the way they cut them, not every disc ends up with the grit marked on it. I'm pretty sure they make 5" 8-hole garnet disc combo packs too, but couldn't find them online. Have them send you a catalog.
If you build it - he will come.
I'm assuming that you're asking this question because you'll need to get discs for the DeWalt 421 or 423 that you're contemplating.
You hit that one, Doug. I will probably order packs of 50 (or more) of the popular grits at the same time I get the sander.
From the responses, it sounds like I've been doing unnecessary work starting with 60. Looks like 80-100 is a more typical starting point.
jt8
The reason so many people never get anywhere in life is because when opportunity knocks, they are out in the backyard looking for four-leaf clovers. -- Walter Percy Chrysler
Wood has to rough to use 80.
I went ahead and ordered 50-packs of 100-150-180. I'll probably get smaller packs of 80-120-220 from Lowes/Menards.jt8
The reason so many people never get anywhere in life is because when opportunity knocks, they are out in the backyard looking for four-leaf clovers. -- Walter Percy Chrysler
80-100-180
The starting grit is determined by the condition of the surface you are going to sand. Generally surfaces that have been planed or jointered, are started at 100 grit. If you are starting with roughsawn lumber, 80 grit is probably best.
The objective of sanding is to remove machine marks and/or flatten the surface. The first grit should do this. Subsequent grits are used to remove the marks left by the prior grit. Beyond that, the following is something I wrote for a local woodworking club newsletter a few years ago. It may help.
Sanding wood--hard or soft--beyond 220 does little more than burnish the wood making staining difficult. This is particularly true if you are using a pigment stain which sits on the surface and relies on "nooks and crannies" to impart color. Softer more porous woods can be sanded to to 220 but harder less absorbent woods may stain best if only sanded to 150.
A number of years ago a shop I was involved with did series of adhesion tests with various finishes and sealers. As part of this test we explored adhesion based on sanding grit. We found about the same adhesion up to 180 - 220. Beyond 220 adhesion dropped off due to burnishing of the underlying wood particularly when non-linear machine sanders (orbital) were used. This was tested on birch panels. We also found that the resulting smoothness of the first coat of finish was not materially affected by the smoothnes of the underlying wood for sandpaper grits between 150 - 220.. The smoothest surface substrate for final finishes was obtained by sanding lightly after the first coat of finish was applied and dry. Which makes the case for a thinned first coat of finish.
So our conclusion was that sanding beyond 180-220 was not necessary and could be actually detrimental.
But, most important was that there was a big appearance affect if the surface was not HAND sanded in the direction of the grain using the highest grit used on the sanding machine. A flat pad sander produced a much flatter surface than a ROS. However, both required final hand sanding with the grain for optimum appearence. If not hand sanded, swirl scratches would show. Final hand sanding using a sanding pad in the direction of the grain is a must.
To carry it one step further, sanding at 320-400 grit after the first coat and subsequent coats was the optimum. No improved appearence was noticed by between coat sanding beyond 400 for varnish. 400 was the sweet spot for thinner finishes. Between coat sanding was always done by hand whether for flattening or for adhesion.
I think you will find similar thoughts in the popular finishing books but YMMV.
What you've written here is exactly what I've found by experience. Don't bother sanding the wood past about 180 grit, and once you've used the ROS for the roughest grit, do everything else by hand. In fact, if I started with the ROS at 80 grit I would then sand by hand at 80 grit as well to quickly eliminate the 80 grit swirls.
If you're using a large-pored wood like oak and want that satin smooth feel, I think you're better off using a grain filler than to sand up to 600 grit.
For most of my work I go 120 - 220 and thats it. There is no reason to sand past 220. If you sand two pieces; one to 220 and the other to 400, the 400 will feel smother but after the finish is applied there will be no difference. If you read any books on finishing they will all repeat this. I take that back, I've read the 3 or 4 most athorative books and that is what they said.
For heirloom quality work I sand to 120 and then use a cabinet scraper. After scraping no more sanding is necessary. When you are sanding, especially with finer grits, you clog the pores of the wood and dull the finish. A freshly scraped or planed surface has a luster to it that no amount of sanding can replicate. This really show through after the finish is applied.
Mike
I completely agree with Howie.
Usually 100 - 150 - 220.
I've used some 320 for between-coat scuff sanding.
I used down to 600 on one turning and found I didn't care for the feel of it, way too "plastic".
I keep 50, 80, 400, 600 & 800 around for metal stuff.
When I have to re-finish doors (something that happens with a 50+ year old house) I usually start with 80 and finish with 150.
John for me it depends on the type of finish im going to use.
I use primarliy enduro water base. So I start with the finest grit possible for the wood.
If its in bad shape glued up panel with a uneven glue up for example 80 grit.
But for a normal finish I start at 100 and usually end at 150 or 180.
I use 180 in between coats. (80) 100, 120 (lightly) 150 or 180.
If I am using a oil base like a tonge oil I will go to 320.
100, 120 (lightly) 150, 180, 220, 320
But like I said it all depends on the type of finish I am going to use.
Ron, I am constantly amazed by your absolute ignorance and your ability to bring any thread straight into the toilet.
.
80-120-180 for stain grade & lacquer or poly
80-120-180-320 for oil and hand rubbed finishes
Higher if I need to
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