What Brand of Jointer to Purchase?
user-126535
| Posted in Power Tools and Machinery on
I have a 6″ Jet Jointer that I’ve used for the last ten years in my business. I need to purchase a larger jointer ~ 8″, 10″, or 12″. I would like to know from other woodworkers what they own and have had good … or bad experiences with. General, Grizzly, Delta, General Int., Oliver, Powermatic etc. etc. ? I would be open to the idea of purchasing older machinery as well. If anyone can let me know their opinions, experiences and any information regarding where to purchase such machinery … especially the “2 ton” old stuff, it would be greatly appreciated! One more thing…Our budget is between beer and champagne!
Thanks
Replies
Personally I like a direct drive machine because the vibration is less due to no belts slapping.
http://www.exfactory.com/
has a lot of machinery.
I own a Rockwell, an Oliver and two General jointers. I like my General very much but I like the Oliver the best especially because it is a direct drive machine. In my opinion General is a very nice smaller machine.
Generally the bigger the machine the larger the cutting circle of the cutterhead. That is a real plus.
gb93433, I rigged my dj-20 with extra pulleys to cut down on the belt slap. Man it works great now. That thing was as loud as mack truck in low reverse.
I'll send pics of it
-Lou
For new I'd look at ...
http://www.wilkemachinery.com/default.tpl?action=full&cart=114384606725663&id1=7&--woSECTIONSdatarq=7&--SECTIONSword=ww&--eqskudatarq=YC-12J
12" Yorkcraft for $1995.
Used I look at Oliver, Crescent, Northfield, etc.
http://www.exfactory.com ...they are brokers but gives some idea of the stuff out there. Check the yellow pages for machinery dealers in your surrounding states for more options. They will give a warranty. You do get Woodshop News I hope. Good classifieds for machines.
Thank You Both for the info.... Does anyone else have any personal exp. with any other brands??
Iv'e used the new Powermatic 8 in. Parallelogram jointer ( I don't own it) and it was a real nice machine and was very impressed with it, Especially how close the infeed table is next to the blades at all cutting heights. see link below at the web site. Good luck.
http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/index.cfm?area=shop&action=detail&iid=6053074
I recently purchased the Powermatic 8" parallelogram jointer too. I love it. The fit and finish were top notch. So far it flattened oak and hard maple without a problem.
I Thank You for your opinion... I've heard rumors that when Jet took over Powermatic that Powermatic's quality control went down to lower standards.... BUT I've also heard the other way around...that Jet is coming up to the Powermatic standards...It's nice to hear from people that own & operate them. This Helps Greatly...I Thank You...
When I was in the market for a jointer I kept my eyes open for used machines, and glad I waited. I ended up with a mid 30"s Boyce Crane 6" er. Though the bed is shorter than modern brothers. A plus on it , is that the infeed/outfeed tables are bolted to the sliding ways, thus they are shimable for flatening. And for $75.00 I couldn't pass it up.Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S. Counter Sales, Tech Rep. http://WWW.EAGLEAMERICA.COM
I Thank You for your info. Do you have any place in particular that you've looked for these? I too am looking at the 'oldies but goodies'. American Yates, along with several others at a web site called E Extra? These babies have some steel in them.... For $500-1500.oo for the jointer and $2500.oo for the shipping ! ; ) Thank You again......
I had similar concerns when I first started looking for a jointer. But, like any other big purchase, I did a lot of research and comparison shopping. Ultimately, I felt that the powermatic was the best choice for me. I was not ever able to get any hard, reliable evidence that there has been a decline in quality in powermatic machines. The machine that was delivered to my shop certainly doesn't appear deficient in any respect.
For what it is worth, I think that the best way of deciding which jointer to purchase is to decide what are your top priorities in a machine (bed length, width, motor power, customer service, etc.). Then choose a few machines in your price range (buy the best you can afford) that meet your top criteria. After you've narrowed the field down, take a thorough look at the finalists -- and use them if possible. Pay special attention to how you adjust the height of the bed; the angle and position of the fence; and the procedure for changing blades. This should help you zero in on the machine that is right for you. Good luck!
Thank You for your time and opinion...
What kind of work do you do... is the jointer used hourly, daily, ? You mentioned knife changes. Have you had to do 'it' yet with yours and if so how did it go? I'm also wondering about these 'helical'? cutters i'm seeing more and more. My jointer has the standard steel blades and has been doing fine for years but the spiral cutters and helical set up sure makes sense. Especially the idea of just rotating one knife 90 degrees to get a new set up. I'd like to know if anyone out there has used these and if they've notice a difference.
Again, Thank You
I bought the Grizzly G0593 8" machine with spiral cutter head ($995). It has fairly long tables, dovetailed ways, an easy to reach switch and the carbide spiral cutter head.It arrived in excellent shape, took about two hours to wire and assemble. A past review raised some questions about the smoothness of cut with the spiral head, but I've had no problems.I bought the machine for its table length and its cutter head. I find changing knives to be tedious, and it always seemed that I would hit a knot a few hours after a change and end up with a nicked blade. I think carbide is a better material for a knife than HSS, and the changes on the spiral cutter head are easily done. As I noted, I haven't seen any problems with the smoothness of the cut, but even if there was a difference, it wouldn't change my mind. THe purpose of a jointer to me is to get a flat face and a square edge. If the machine does that, I'll finish the surface with my planer or a handplane or scraper. In any event, the surface left by HSS tends to coarsen as the blade ages, which doesn't take very long in my experience.Just my 2p,Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
I Thank You for getting back to me. The spiral cutters you mentioned- is that the cutterhead that you insert flexible knives into? Also, what kind and how much lumber have you run through your jointer and are the knives holding up ok? I do a lot of exotic lumber 50 to 70 lbs. per cubic ft. and I would like to know if it would be better to go with your set up of helical or ? Thanks again...and I like your saying on the bottom of your replies..... It sounds like something my Grand Parents that 'came from the old country' would say!
The cutterhead has a series of overlapping square carbide inserts (see attached file). Carbide is a good material for this application (better than HSS in my opinion), and wear is minimal. When wear is apparent, you loosen the insert and rotate it 90°. Blow out the head with compressed air to make sure there is no grit behind the insert before re-tightening. Much easier (for me) than fussing with a knife holding jig.I got the machine about 3 months ago and have run oak, cherry, softwoods and some birdseye maple through it. No problems, even with the figured wood. Three months is not a long time, and I WW for fun, but given the longevity of carbide and the overall fit and constructon of the machine, I think this would be a very robust tool for any hardwood jointing, including exotics.As for the saying at the bottom of my post, it has been attributed to Ted Williams.Good luck,Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Sorry- here is the file attachment.Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Glaucon, Can I get that cutter head style for my delta dj-20. How much is it?
thanx, Lou
I bought a Powermatic shaper about five years ago and it was poorly made. The spindle did not line up in the center of the hole in the table. The machine had a knock in it when I turned it on. I could not line the shaft with the center of the hole in the table. The pulley on the spindle was loose and that was the reason for the knock. I was told that the reason for the problems with Powermatic was when Jet and Powermatic merged and Powermatic's jigs, etc. were old and so the new machines were made in the Jet factory.
Edited 4/5/2006 7:28 am by gb93433
Thanks for getting back to me....
Did Powermatic make it right or did you get the sawdust pounded up.... I'm wondering if since then (5 yrs. ago) they have gotten their acts together and once again producing quality machines? I'm going to a woodworking show Friday in Sacramento.....hope to find out more then but of course when you ask a Powermatic rep....what do you think the answer is going too be....? !
Thanks Again
Steve
I was told by a dealer what the deal was while I owned it. I did not own it very long and sold that machine.
I have a GI 6" in my shop... but I've had some experience with General International 12" and the General Canada 8" from other shops. Loved the General Canada, but it does come with a nice big price tag. Apparently (the owner told me) the 12" GI had a little bit of 'sag' at one end of the fence. It didn't appear to affect it too much in use.
The extra capacity of the 12" was nice, but it really seems like a different machine all together...
FWIW, When I upgrade from my 6" jointer in a few years I'll probably go with the General Canada 8".
Did you have the chance to run much lumber through the 12" GI?
Thanks,
Steve
Did you have the chance to run much lumber through the 12" GI?
Before I get started, I am a hobbyist. The GI 12" was the machine I learned on for the first two years. It was not mine, so I wasn't responsible for upkeep on the machine. As well the machine was kept in the most abusive environment known to woodworking equipment... a high school woodworking shop. The tables probably could have used a waxing...
I ran cherry, walnut, ash and oak over it. It did as one would expect. It was a heavy duty machine. Looking back if I could take one machine out of that shop and bring it to mine it would be that jointer. It was nice not to have to worry at all about the width of stock.
That said the machine was massive. If I had the space I'd be looking for a one... maybe when the school closes it's wood shop I'll try to buy it...
Buster
I too have a Northfield 12" HD jointer. Bought it new about a year ago. While it was quite expensive, I am very pleased with the purchase. It's powerful, virtually vibration free (direct drive), and its big beds are flat , parallel, and easy to adjust. I bought the 5 HP 3 ph machine, but I operate it on single phase. The reduced power has never been an issue (causing me to shelve my option of a rotary converter).
Dale
Thanks Dale.... Can you tell me where you purchased your jointer? I'd like any and all info from anyone as where to buy these bad boys....
Thanks again....
Steve
Thanks Buster
I've gone from a 6" Delta, to a 8" powermatic to my 12" Northfield. The Northfield HD is my favorite jointer that I've ever used, including an older Oliver. The 3 legged design with swivel feet means you don't have to level the feet to each other,and worry about sag or wobble as from a 4 legged version (Oliver). Mine is direct motor drive (dmd) and can hog almost 1/2" (I'm not kidding) of an 8/4 edge in one pass. Not that you would want to, but it's capable. Try that with a Delta or Powermatic! (LOL) I'm very happy with mine. If you look at the Northfield, I prefer the HD over the MD (medium duty).
Jeff
Thanks Jeff for the info I appreciate it. Where did you purchase your bad boy and was it new or used? I'm trying to locate machines close to me but if I have to ship a distance if I find a great deal.... then I guess I'll do it. I'm hearing more and more good stuff about the older machines...
Again, Thanks
Steve
I bought it used, refurbished from a local dealer.
Jeff
Hey Jeff.... where is "local dealer"? Do they still have machines like yours or equivalant? If so I can always figure trucking costs from point A to B.
Thanks again
Pleasant St. Machinery DeKalb, Illinois
Ben Rock
(815)758-6534
Ben has been rebuilding old woodworking machinery for a living forever. He is my source for everything. Give him a call. Last time I was at his warehouse, he had over 600 machines in his warehouse, awaiting new homes. As of 3 months ago, he had a 12"HD Northfield identical to mine. I believe them to be the best jointer out there, period.
Jeff
Woodshavings n Sawdust,
Do you honestly expect someone to say buy a brand other than the one I bought?
A jointer is a simple machine.. adjusted properly they all are fine..
Buy one way too wide! (you'll thank me) inexpensive is better than expensive because you can then save your money for important equipment..
Thanks for your opinion Frenchy but yes there are a few people who have gotten back to me via emails etc. that have said 'I purchased such n such brand or model and it didn't hold up'.. or "had problems with parts or service" etc. etc. One guy who talked about his Powermatic shaper that it was a piece of s***. Then there was a guy who will never ever purchase another Grizzly machine.
I've been in business about 10 years and have purchased over $36,000.oo of equipment to date. There have been some pcs. of equipment I wished I would've invested a little more money on & others not at all. That way I could have saved $$ on down time adjusting and or replacing parts AND $$ in Tylenol! ;0 The jointers I've had in the past and the one I have now are/were all "ok when adjusted properly" but there's been some that you have to adjust more often then others...older machines and even with newer machines. When getting ready to plunk down a hunk of change for a much larger machine... I want to know anyone and everyones opinion and draw a conclusion from there...and I Thank You for yours.
By the way... just curious, what is important equipment...just wondering.
woodshavings n sawdust,,
Sorry, from the tone of your post I mistakenly assumed that you were a Newbe. My error..
I bought a Grizzly jointer and can't tell you how happy that made me.. Actualy I'm as happy because the darn thing arrived in a shattered crate with damage done to it)
Wierd huh?
I'm happy?
Actually a phone call and they had the broken pieces airfrieghted overnight to me and once I put it back together (it took me about a 1/2 an hour) it's worked flawlessly for 20,000+ bd.ft of hardwood.
My planer has been even better, It's planned at least 30,000+ bd.ft. and to date the only part I've replaced has been one $5.00 drive belt that I got at my local autoparts store
My tablesaw broke my arm but that was because I operated it without the guard in place.
My dust collection system is a little smaller than I should have gotten and doesn't work when I am ripping off the surface of rough planned boards.. So I just put a dust mask on and shovel chips out of the way when they get knee deep, every few hours.
The shaper has been flawless and much better than I ever expected..Three hp is enough to single pass really big cuts in panels doing raised panels.. Just for grins I compared the time it took to single pass the panels and then compared to angle cutting much of the waste away on the table saw first. On thirty panels it took me 18 minutes longer to use the tablesaw than to single pass. I didn't have to sand either one.
Now you should know that I'm building my own timberframe house.. Much of what I'm doing has boards 18+ feet long and they may be as wide as 20 inches..
Timbers and stuff bigger than what will fit thru my equipment I use portable power planes to work but I can get all my 6"x12" timbers thru the planer and joint the 6 inch side of the timbers leaving only the 9& 12 inch width to be hand jointed..
Broke your arm on the table saw??? What did you do drop in on your arm??? You had a kick back THAT bad? YIKES!John
jmartinsky,
A tiny little board about 3 inches wide, 1/4 inch thich and about 5 inches long.. wieghs close to 7 ounces (I don't know, just that it was really lite)
I had the blade up too high and no guard in place.. (Oh, and I use a 12 inch table saw not just a 10 inch)
Bone is still not really set properly one doctor wanted to pin it then he decided not to sent me to a specialist who decided not to pin it either and finally after 6 weeks in the cast another doctor said it was too late.. bone fragment is floating around causing grief..
Wow, tough break. That is a freaky thing. Hope it works out for you.John
Jmartinsky,
The board hit with such force that it litterly sheared the bone off. while leaving only a minor tear in the skin..
Since the bone involved is at my wrist a cast had minimum effect as a fixture, the slightest movement of my wrist effectively "rebroke" the bond. In retrospect the doctor should have pinned it..
I just got one of the new Craftsman jointers (made by Orion). For years, I stayed far away from Craftsman, but they seem to be redeeming themselves lately!
Anyway, I got this jointer for about $320 after the discounts they were offering. It's a nice machine.
Personally, I keep away from mail order, which removes a few of the more popular brands from contention (see the recent discussion on "never buying Grizzly again," for example).
Here's a link to the machine I bought:
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid=00921705000&subcat=Jointers%2C+Planers+%26+Shapers
W and S
I went through the same decision making process when I replaced my Delta DJ20 (gave it to my son) First I looked at a ton of used commercial machines. They are things of beauty, but they are all three phase. Some you can replace the motor, the direct drives you cannot. Replacing motor and controls is half the price of a new machine.
Looked at all the European models Laguna, SCMI, Rojek even the Polish brand. They are excellent machines for $5,000.
Then I looked at all the Tawain machines and drove to York, PA From MI to look at the Bridgewood 12" spiralhead machine. The BW12 has a 3HP Baldor USA motor and Square D controls. Surface ground tables are mirror polished smooth and they are dead parallel out of the crate. This machine weights close to a 1,000 lbs. so it is rock steady. Wilke sets them up at the shop and runs each machine before shipping them. I ran my jointer through the ringer right there in their factory service area. The service guys and the salesman(Curtis Wilke - the owner) gave me a couple pieces of 2" hard maple and told me to make shavings. Smoothest finish I've ever had from a jointer.
I have had it about 2 years and I am even happier today than the day I bought it. I face joint everything now where I never would with my other jointers. My buddy owns a cabinet shop and he likes my jointer better than his 16" DD SCMI. Hope this saves people some research time. I like my BW-12 so much the next year I bought a 20" spiralhead planer. Love it, but those trips to York,Pa from Ann Arbor are tough.They deliver, but I like to test my machines first.
Thanks Terrylee. I went to another woodworking show last weekend...(now I know how women feel at the mall)..... and checked out the Bridgewood machines along with a couple of others brands. It's nice to hear from someone who has owned a machine for awhile and that it's holding up well. Do you run any exotic and or figured hardwoods through your two machines and if so hows the tear out? The square knives holding up or do you notice you have to rotate/replace them more often than you would straight carbide blades? One more thing, if you don't mind, how much did the 12" Bridgewood cost then compared to now?
Again, Thank You
Steve
Steve,
I have run walnut crotches and curly cherry through both machines with virtually no tearout. I even run crossgrain white pine and had very little tearout just a little fuzz where before I would get chip explosions. I have run about 5,000 bf through both machines since I bought them and I have't even thought about rotating the knives. With my old jointer and planer I would have changed knives by now. The service tech at Wilke told me I should get between 30,000 to 50,000 bf before I have to rotate 90 degrees to the next edge. These knives might outlive me. The tech also gave me a good piece of advice if you happen to get any brand of machine with a spiral cutterhead. He said if you get a nail chip in the three knives in that line don't rotate them, but take them out and move them to the very edge and rotate them there and move the knives with the same wear pattern to the inside and you wont even notice the change. If you just rotate them, the new edge will be a little higher and you will notice it in the surface.
The price of both machines has not changed since I bought them but I don't know how long that will last. If you can afford it don't hesitate to get the spiral cutterhead. They are so quiet I really don't need earplugs, but I still wear them(not stupid).The things I liked about the Bridgewood machines were Baldor motors, Square D controls,machines were setup and run at Wilke and the fit and finish was flawless. I bought a Laguna Tablesaw and the fit and finish was not as good. All these machines were a retirement present from me to me with my buy out bonus ( best investment I ever made).
Good Luck
Terry
Five years ago I purchased a 1925 Frank H. Clement [believe made by American] Jointer. It only weights 1800# not two tons. It's a sixteen inch machine, babbit bearing, and came with no motor. I made a motor bracket for a five hp motor I purchased and had the jointer up and running in two weekends.
The babbits are still tight and only require a shot of oil before each days use. The motor has huge power, I can take 3/16 off a fifteen inch board no problem. Edge joint eight foot boards easily with the eight foot long bed. The dust collection is marginal. About 15% of the chips end on the floor. A day spent with some sheet metal would solve most of that problem.
I have less than $850.00 in this machine and it is easily worth a lot more. It replaced a six inch Jet. So it was a huge step up. Hey I got lucky, keep looking you might too.
Regards,
Jim
THANK YOU JIM ! I keep telling myself the same thing.... AND, as the saying goes, they don't make them like they used too...really does apply.
Can you tell me where you found that beast...I've been looking at Ex Factory? but I know of no other....
Thanks Again,
Steve
Sorry to take so long, I've been gone all week.
I found it throught the woodweb,from a cab shop in Rochester, NY. They had undergone lots of expansion and the jointer just sat for several years and they were happy to be rid of it.
My impersion of ex-factory is the are quite expensive!
Best of luck, keep looking.
Thanks Jim... I appreciate it.
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