Destroyed my bench today! I tried veneering with clamps and cauls and ripped the tool tray right off the bench. Enjoy the pictures. I guess I can start thinking about a new and improved bench. I was so miffed I just left the shop and found something else to do. What’s that saying? Give me a big enough lever and I’ll move the world.
John
The only time time you have to much jet fuel onboard is when you’re on fire.
Replies
When I veneer using cauls I use them in pairs opposing each other. Before I use them I clamp them together to make they are flat with no gaps between them. The I use them on the piece I am veneering.
Jcpilot
With all due respect, what have you learned about joinery from this experience? Understand why your glue joint failed and understand how the orientation of your bench top boards contributed to the failure, and you will then be a winner even though you have a repair job to do.
I would strongly recommend running a 3/8 or 1/2 inch threaded rod through bench tops. The rods can extend only half way into the outside boards in order to allow the rod, washers and nuts to be hidden with a wood plug. The boards are drilled for the rods before assembly, a bit oversized. The rods also double as clamps as you draw the assembly tight with a ratchet.
Sorry for your troubles, but turn this into a learning experience and you will come out richer for it. JL
Spread some glue, clamp her up and it'll be good as a repaired bench! Good opportunity to practice your 'repair' skills...
Jeff
Edited 2/18/2007 9:09 pm by jeff100
To add to what's already been said, any time you see the center of the tree in your board, make a nice fire. There is no stability in the heart.
It's all a learning experience.
Not so fast- cut out that pith/centerwood/heartand defects, and you have good quarter sawn stuff. There are two boards there ready for the treatment. Then have the fire.Philip Marcou
Philip, I stand corrected. We've had a cold snap here in Florida, down to freezing, and I was thinking of a big fire.
Back to 80 on Wednesday, though.
Get a vacuum bag veneer press.
John,
Too bad about your bench.
Some years back, a fellow woodworker, who I respect, convinced me that pressing veneer was the best method, so I made up some pieces of 1 1/2" x 2 1/2" ash, with a series of holes drilled in them to accept threaded rod. The pieces of ash are planed to a slight camber, and are used in pairs with the camber opposing each other. These are very effective, but slow and unwieldy. I now use them only for flattening veneer. In the end for "one off" projects, especially one of any complexity, hammer veneering is the way to go.
Rob Millard
http://www.americanfederalperiod.com
Hi Rob,I was deciding between hammer veneering and clamps and cauls. You see which won. I have a glue pot and have seen a demonstration on hammer veneering but lack to hammer. It's on my wish list at Lee Valley.I was trying to use this beautiful 8/4 x 11" x 45" piece for the top of a chest. When I resawed it there was reactionary wood or case hardening. There was a 1" gap in the center of the two halves. So that's when I got the idea of making venner and using cabinet grade plywood. I was fighting the stock and knew in my brain this was not quality work but live and learn. I now wish I had a drum sander. I was looking over the Workbench book and thinking about bench number two. JohnThe only time time you have to much jet fuel onboard is when you're on fire.
http://mysite.verizon.net/respum0e/johnspersonalsite/
The veneer didn't turn out that bad. It's a new day and I'm able to see the lessons from yesterday. Thanks for everyones advice.
JohnThe only time time you have to much jet fuel onboard is when you're on fire.
http://mysite.verizon.net/respum0e/johnspersonalsite/
John,nice veneering job, now fix the bench.
mike
Fixed!
View Image
Edited 2/19/2007 9:01 pm ET by Jcpilot
Rob
I have always preferred a cold press for gluing up veneer panels. There are press screws with 18 inch travel available on the market and many plans, that allow the building of a press made from wood only or combine wood and structural steel sections. Once built, you lay up the veneer panels at the beginning or the end of the work day and they are ready to take out of the press the end of the day or the morning after. It can be built modularly, so that it is in sections of ...say 2 feet x 4 feet. One can add a section as required. JL
Jeanlou,
I've seen some of those plans, but I'm a such a firm advocate of hammer veneering, that I have no desire to make them. For the kind of work I do, hammer veneering is an ideal method.
Rob Millard
http://www.americanfederalperiod.com
Rob
Hammer veneering is a venerable technique that has existed since fine cabinet making began. The beautiful work that you do is much more suited to hammer veneering than it is to press veneering. (I am not telling you anything that you do not know). My veneer work is flat panel. Inlays I incorporate into the veneer lay-up before pressing. Different techniques for different folks and different projects. God bless. JL
PS to ALL
If you haven't seen Rob's web site, his previous post has a link. Go take a look. It is time worth your while.
Jeanlou,
I tried doing inlay work in flat panels, using the press. I disliked taping all the pieces together. For myself, I found hammer veneering better suited to the task.
How do you approach flat work in the press?
Thanks
Rob Millard
http://www.americanfederalperiod.com
Ray
When I lay up the veneer there are several layers of paper veneer tape going every which way when inlays are incorporated in the design. I use urea glue to glue up the panels. The core is sometimes veneer core and sometimes particle core, depending on the project. The backing sheet is made up of rejected veneer that is always in every flitch, either because it is too narrow for a pleasing lay up or because there is too much sap wood, pin holes or other minor defects.
The base of the press is 1 1/8 inch particle board, covered with a loose sheet of 1/8 inch aluminum sheeting. I may sometimes put down a sheet of newsprint (without printing on it). The lay up, glued and ready to press is put in the press. If I have a complicated lay up that used several layers of veneer tape, I put another piece of newsprint on the face veneer (always up in the press) and then cover that with a piece of flannel or thin felt. This does a great job in helping put even pressure on the veneer between the veneer tape. I cover this with another sheet of aluminum and particle board, and then I close the press and apply even pressure. It works every time. When I remove the cured panel, I use a sharp hand scraper (painter style) to remove the majority of the paper tape and finish with what people on this forum call a card scraper. I just call it a scraper.
If this doesn't answer the question, feel free to ask. JL
IMHO, I see a clamping issue. 250 PSI is very easy to accomplish, 500-1000 PSI is almost as easy. Times the number of clamps per the offending side, which is 5. You could have been stressing that bench with as much as 5000lbs force very easily. Something is going to give. Also the problem would have been eliminated it you didn't get into a cantilevered situation.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
pilot,
Aside from the failure between the tool tray and the main part of the bench, the construction of the bench top is impressive. How many clamps did you use to glue up the top? Did you glue it all at once or a few members at a time? The faces of the members making up the top represent quite a bit of glue surface to clamp.
What glue did you use?
It's impressive that the 2 members making up the tool tray do not appear to have cupped against each other. I'm picturing a dozen or so clamps down each edge of that glue-up. Am I right?
It's hard to tell from the images. Did the tool tray break away ON the glue line, or did both pieces of the tray suffer splits in the wood itself?
And last, do you use those free weights for bicepts curls or just for extra weight when veneering? ;-)
Rich
Rich,you give way too much credit. I found the plans from Bob Bench pages
http://web.archive.org/web/20041119015232/www.terraclavis.com/bws/benches.htmThe bench is southern yellow pine from Lowe's and I think the vises cost more than all of the wood for the bench. I wanted something cheap so if I screwed it royally I wouldn't be out to much money. Can't remember what glue probably titebond II. Glued up in segments. That project was excuse to by a small fortunes worth of K-bessey clamps. Don't buy cheap clamps. You'll regret it later. The tray broke partially at the glue line and mostly along a growth ring near the pith.
I don't use these weights to lift but I am training for an amateur stongman competition. My training partner is an ex NFL linebacker and World Strongest Man competitor. Fun stuff lifting stones, logs and tires.Bench update. It's fixed! Two lag bolts and I'll worry about it later. Oh yeah. No using the tool tray as a clamping base.Until next time,
JohnThe only time time you have to much jet fuel onboard is when you're on fire.
http://mysite.verizon.net/respum0e/johnspersonalsite/
John, Forget the Bessy clamps. Just get your training partner to hold the boards together! ;-) Rich
Jc,
The only thing i would add, is to make your bench top out of maple.
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