Replies

1. 
   RalphBarker | Aug 03, 2009 05:14pm | #1

   DC systems will typically exhaust into the surrounding air, but they are only for the "big chunks". You'll probably want a separate air filtration system for smaller particulates. I'd also urge creating some kind of decent ventilation, particularly if you use the area for finishing. Otherwise, your DC system will need to be large enough to suck up dead bodies from the floor. ;-)

   
   

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   Edited 8/3/2009 10:14 am by RalphBarker

2. 
   Spalted | Aug 04, 2009 02:18am | #2

   this may be out of context but worth noting: Run shop-vac-ed air through a bucket of water. The fine dust seems to get caught in the water before it can become airborne again.

1. 
   boilerbay | Aug 04, 2009 05:20pm | #5

   I used to have a mud sander that used that system... worked great but hard on arms. Got the PC power mud sander later. Hard on back.Some form of the water system could be adapted but I think the increased humidity in the vacuum could lead to problems. I do remember getting rid of the "water-muck" created it's own set of problems.

   
3. 
   forestgirl | Aug 04, 2009 07:59am | #3

   I'm confused about what you're seeking information on....   the title says "most effective air filter, but your post asks about dust collectors.  These are two different animals.  Clarify please??

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 
   
1. 
   twotowers | Aug 04, 2009 10:47pm | #6

   Forestgirl,
   I guess the ceiling mounted variety. I have an old single bag (if you can picture that!) dust collector for the machinery and after a while in the shop I can literally taste the the dust. So I am looking for something that will clean the air of a shop 20' by 25' by 12' while I am working. I know some machines work if you run them for an hour before of after you use the shop, but I would like something that works well while I am working in the shop. Any ideas - aside from punch a hole in the wall?
   Best,
   TT

1. 
   philip_r | Aug 04, 2009 11:18pm | #7

   Your best protection is to capture as much dust as possible, at the source.  Adding or increasing the size of the dust ports is a good idea.  Also, adding an over-arm blade guard to your TS will make a huge improvement. 

   Your second step would be to add a secondary air-filter.  I have a JDS 750-er... but there are many other options out there.  Some people simply have a fan with a furnace filter taped on to it.

   I suggest you read up on the subject and do something soon.  Wood dust is bad for your health.  There are hundreds, if not thousands of options.  I think that the amount of time spent under these conditions should dictate what option you select.

    

   Edited 8/4/2009 4:19 pm ET by Tbagn

2. 
   forestgirl | Aug 05, 2009 12:04am | #8

   Tabqn is putting you on the right track here -- you need to collect from the source as best you can.  It takes a lot of time to collect suspended dust, and during that time you are breathing!

   And remember, the most dangerous dust is the dust that you can't see, the super-fine particles that, once they are in the lungs, do not come out.

   If I were in  your situation, I would wear a tight-fitting dust mask at the very least while working.  You can get a good air-filtration unit (I like the JDS systems, but I'm sure Jet and Delta are effective too) and keep that running, but until you get your source-collection working more effectively, you'll need a mask or respirator to be safe.

   As for doing research, Bill Pentz's site is the most-cited starting point [click on Cyclone and Dust Collection Research].  I'm not saying it's the best -- I don't know -- but it'll get you thinking and give you some tools.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

   Edited 8/4/2009 5:05 pm by forestgirl

3. 
   Don01 | Aug 05, 2009 12:25am | #11

   How old is the filter bag and what is it's rating. It could be as high as 30 micron. Not good. If you don't know for sure,Option 1. As a minimum, replace the felt filter with one rated at 1 Micron
   Optin 2. Get rid of the felt bag and put in a cartridge.
   Option 3. Better yet, dump the dust pump and get yourself a decent cyclone.It sounds like your current setup takes an unacceptable amount of dust from the tool and puts it in the air. If you do not correct this, you will find yourself spending a lot of time cleaning the air filter.
   Many of the ceiling mounted air filters do not have ratings any higher than most dust collectors, so the stuff you taste may still be present.Tape a high quality 3M furnace element to a box fan, suspend it in the shop and turn it on while you work and see what you catch. Same idea, lower cost.If you do not minimize the dust at its source, any secondary filtration you install will be overloaded and expensive to operate if the fine filter are disposable.In the mean time (actually all the time), please wear a very good face mask while you are working around hih concentrations of dust.Don

1. 
   twotowers | Aug 05, 2009 12:57am | #13

   Don the the unit I have is from about 1985. It has one bag which both collects the dust and "filters" with the remaining part of the bag that is not full of dust. It sound like I could surround the bag with air filters. Actually I was thinking a separate shed and storing the thing out side the shop as running the dust collector - while picking up chips from a jointer or planer seems to make the air quality noticeably worse in as little as five minuets. I try using masks but they seem to make me feel faint so I only use them when i am sanding. Do you think they make a 1 micron bag for an older unit like mine?TT

1. 
   Don01 | Aug 05, 2009 04:11am | #14

   TT,Is your DC like the one attached, everything that goes in comes out in the bag?If so, Grizzly, Rockler and Delta all sell a similar unit and the bag is rated at 30 Micron. Ouch! I think you would be better off without this thing running at all, or if weather is not a big factor put it outside until you decide what you want. If you have no neighbors, take the bag right off.
   You would have to talk to the manufacturer (Grizzly, Delta, Jet) to see if a 1 micron bag is available for their machine. If so, it should be a universal fit.
   Rockler list a 5 micron bag for their unit.
   The overall performance of these units is so low with 30 micron bags, a 1 micron exit filter would likely act just like a blast gate - nothing out, so nothing in.Looking at US suppliers, you can probably pickup a nice little 1 HP single stage unit with a 1 micron canister for under $600.00. The canister adds to the cost, but give far superior performance.All of the main guys - Penn, Oneida, JDS make portable cyclones for a decent price also.For respirators, I changed to the 3M 8293 which have a P100 rating. It has the exhale valve so you don't breath as much moist air into the filter media when you exhale. Lots to consider as many options seem quite expensive, but they are really cheap compared to the cost of new set of lungs or the ultimate price of permanently retiring the old ones.Don

   
2. 
   twotowers | Aug 05, 2009 06:43am | #16

   Don, I can't breath right with dust masks.
   TT

3. 
   forestgirl | Aug 05, 2009 07:58am | #18

   "Don, I can't breath right with dust masks."  You might want to look into one of the models that pumps fresh air to you.  If you think you don't breathe right with a dust masks, wait until you develop emphysema!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

4. 
   Don01 | Aug 05, 2009 10:09pm | #19

   TT,
   I think the consensus here is that you need to take steps to reduce your exposure to dust. We want you to enjoy your woodworking activity for as long as possible.
   If you are running a jointer and a planer your current collector is likely undersized.
   Use Bill Pentz' information to determine the correct size. If you can put that collector in a separate room - all the better. Remember to allow for this distance when sizing the DC.
   Do not recycle the air back into your work space. Cut a hole in the wall or whatever you have to do to allow makeup air into the workspace.
   These steps alone should make your shop a whole new world to be in.
   Then rather than an overhead air filter, consider Forrest Girl's suggestion about the ventilated hoods that pump in filtered air. Let us know how you progress.Don

5. 
   twotowers | Aug 06, 2009 09:26pm | #20

   Don,
   Thank you - and all of the thoughtful posters that I received - on this topic.Don pretty much summed up my problem - I have a machine with a 30 micron bag and it is time to throw it, and the machine out!I looked at a Grizzle unit that has a one micron bag and also the capacity to hook up a bunch of the major dust makers. I also am going to start hooking up my hand held power tools to a vac. Thank you all so much for you kind advise.Best,TT

6. 
   twotowers | Aug 07, 2009 02:17am | #21

   Don,
   One final question: do you accept a dust collector which doesn't trap anything below 1 micron - working in an entirely closed room - no windows - as acceptable?This may sound odd, but I am ready to buy such a system, but I still work in an entirely closed environment! The 1 micron are the most harmful, will there be a lot of those suckers in the air or is it safe?Best,
   TT

7. 
   Don01 | Aug 07, 2009 05:05pm | #22

   TT,
   Dust at 1 micron is easy to filter, dust at 0.5 micron is the stuff you do not see and will eventually destroy your lungs. Remember wood dust is toxic and regulated in the workplace by OSHA.
   You have to b a bit more explicit in which design you are considering. Single stage, cyclone, 2 HP etc.
   You must avoid the felt bag. The 1 micron rating is nominal and relies on a certain amount of cake to build up on the wall of the bag to achieve this. This is true for almost every filter element.
   The felt bag has 2 disadvantages:
   1. When you shut off the blower, the bag collapses and a significant amount of cake falls off. When you start up next time, you start all over.
   2. The felt bag offers 30-50 square feet of filter surface area. Every time you start up the blower, the full force of the fan hits that small surface area forcing much of the fine dust into the air.
   My thought is, the 1 micron bag will not perform any different to your current setup because the blower will have more power, putting more stress on the bag over time.That takes us to a canister or cartridge element. The advantages are:
   1. Far greater surface area (100-300 sq. ft), reduced pressure loss and possibly less dust at the filter because dust reacts adversely to changes in pressure and direction. Greater surface area results in less pressure on any given part of the media. Larger particles may settle out in areas of less turbulence.
   2. Rigid media mean the cake required to achieve the rated efficiency will remain intact through successive start/stop cycles.
   3. More consistent media
   A number of companies provide canister elements with their single stage collectors. If this is the route you are going, follow Bill Pentz advise and make sure the DC has a 6" inlet (might have an adaptor with 2 - 4" inlets), 5" discharge, 11.5" impeller minimum.
   The Delta 50-760 has had great reviews on this site.
   But because you cannot work with a mask, I would still replace the bag with a good cartridge.Compare the up charge with buying the bag style collector then purchasing a 0.5 micron canister conversion from Wynn Environmental
   http://www.wynnenv.com/35A_series_cartridge_kit.htmIf you do this, I am sure you will find your workspace to be many orders of magnitude happier and healthier.Don

8. 
   Dorsett | Aug 07, 2009 05:11pm | #23

   TT,On any dust collector I would avoid cloth bags. Even with a 1 micron bag, wood dust settles on the outside. Every time you turn on the DC the bag inflates and the settled dust is airborne, again.My DC is a jet. Top half is a cannister. Bottom half is a thick plastic bag. This is in addition to the box fans with double filters I described earlier.I, like you, work in an enclosed space, although I can open one window (in the summer only, and only when I'm in the shop). So far the DC and box fans work well.Dorsett

4. 
   WillGeorge | Aug 04, 2009 04:56pm | #4

   what is the most effective air filter?

    

   The mucus in your nose if it does not get overwhelmed?

5. 
   Dorsett | Aug 05, 2009 12:07am | #9

   I hung two box fans from the ceiling; different locations to maximize air movement. Each fan is tied into the light switch so they're always on when I'm in the shop.

   If I create a lot of sawdust, particularly fine dust from mdf or Ipe, I will leave the fans on for at least an hour after I leave.

   In front of each fan I installed two furnace filters. The first (outside) traps the larger particles (0.99 each at the Borg); the second (3M) catches the finest particles down to 2 or 3 microns ($9.00 each at Costco). I replace the filters on the earlier of (i) noticeable collection of dust or (ii) four months.

   I know it works because I see how much dust the filters capture, and within 10 minutes of entering my father-in-laws (unfiltered) shop I can feel dust on the walls of my wind pipe.

1. 
   nboucher | Aug 05, 2009 12:23am | #10

   Any chance you could post a photo of this?

1. 
   Dorsett | Aug 05, 2009 05:39am | #15

   I'll take some pictures tonight. I've never posted pics on this site, so it may take a little time.

1. 
   forestgirl | Aug 05, 2009 07:56am | #17

   Dorsett, it's pretty easy to post pictures if you simply attach them to your post.

   Edit the pics so they aren't toooo big (both physical size on the monitor and file size).  Then start your post.  When you're ready to attach the pictures, scroll down below where you're typing and click on the Attach Files button -- be sure any pop-up-blocker is turned off. 

   Click on the Browse button in the pop-up window and navigate to the pic's file, select it, double-click and then click on the Upload button.  "Patience, Grasshopper......" wait until the window changes to show that the pic has been uploaded, then either upload another one or click on Done.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

2. 
   Don01 | Aug 05, 2009 12:48am | #12

   There was a shop study published in Wood magazine a year or so back. They actually compared a number of air cleaners to the box fan / furnace filter idea.Box fan/furnace filter was number one or two.Give the elements a light misting of vegetable oil and they will collect even better.Many of the ceiling mount units have a 5 micron primary and 1 micron secondary. Eventually they will begin collecting particles less than 1 micron, but false security to think these are cleaning the air significantly when you are working.You gotta have the face mask - always.Don