What is the purpose of a “Jointer”?
WhitePower14
| Posted in Power Tools and Machinery on
All right, the only stupid question is the one that isn’t asked, right? I constantly see mentioned in Fine Woodworking books and magazines about planing and jointing stock before you used it for projects, and I can understand what a thickness planer is and does, but not a jointer. I’ve seen ’em in catalogs, but can’t figure them out. If I can’t afford a thickness planer, what is the best handplane to buy and how do I use it? I’m a product of the nineties- I never received technical training of any kind in school.
Replies
Hi Jimbo... A jointer has two main uses... First, it is used like a plane to flatten ONE face of a board so it can then be run through a planer to flatten the oposite face and get it parallel to the first face. Second, it is used to 'joint' the edge of the board. Once that edge is true, (90 degrees to the face) the board is run through the table saw to get the second edge parallel to the first edge. If you've done everything correctly, the board has two faces and two edges parallel. All you need to do is trim the two ends for a perfectly rectangular board.
The (power) jointer has simply taken the hard work out of prep'ing the board for use. Or... you can flatten one face and one edge with a hand plane, use a marking gauge to mark an even thickness all around the board, plane to this line, measure an 'equal' width across the face of the board and saw and plane to get the second edge true to the first edge. Yep, that's the way the really old 'old-timers' did it. SawdustSteve (Yup, I've done it, and more than once)
Hi Jimbo,
I'll try to be succinct. Please forgive me if I cover information you already know.
Jointing a face and an edge of a board are the first two steps in the squaring process, the objective of which is to create a board in which all six faces are flat and lie at 90-degrees to one another, ready for furniture making.
A jointer, whether motorized or powered by elbow grease, flattens and smooths. If used in conjunction with a 90-degree reference (fence), they can be used to flatten two adjacent surfaces at 90-degrees to one another.
One face is jointed flat before thicknessing, whether by machine or by hand:
If by hand, I flatten the first face using winding sticks and the longest hand plane in my collection. If I have to remove a lot of wood, I start with a scrub plane. When flat, I use a cutting gauge to scribe a thickness line relative to the flattened face, and plane the rough face, removing material until I reach the scribed line.
When thicknessing by machine, face-jointing before planing assures both faces will be parallel to one another. The face being planed will follow the countours of the face on the infeed table, if the reference face isn't flat, the planed face won't be flat either.
You joint an edge to provide a flat surface from which you can measure and rip the board to a prescribed width. If you joint both edges before you complete the squaring process, they will both be flat, but not necessarily parallel.
Helpful?
-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
mommies..... that is the funniest thing i have heard on any wood work website.. ever..
nice.
Jimbo, if you can spare $9.99, go out and get the Power Tool Techniques mag that FWW put out earlier this year. It has an excellent article on jointers and planers and how they work together to mill stock. Don't think it has any info on Heather's two mommies though<g>.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
My wife asked that very question at dinner a few weeks ago. To which my 7-old year replied, "Mom, a jointer makes one side of a board perfectly flat." Nice to know I'm raising him right. ;)
So what is this business about 2 mommies then?
If you guys would call a surfacer a surfacer instead of a jointer all would be quite clear.
Dear Girl, you always answer promptly, that's why you got the question.
mookaroid,
If a jointer is a surfacer, what do you call a planer?
Surfacer,spanner, cramp, petrol, parafin oil, aluminIum,speak ENGLISH, for God's sake!! (Tongue firmly in cheek)
Cheers,
Ray
Brits and Kiwis call jointers "overhand planers".......... a good discription I thought
mike,
"overhand planer" huh? I'll add that to my vocabulary.
Cheers,
Ray
Also known as overhand surface planers, or 'buzzers' in other states.They called them a jointer when/where I was trained.What you call a planer, we call a thicknesser.CHeers,Andrew
eddie,
Why call it a "jointer", when "overhand surface planer" will do? It just rolls off the tongue, ha ha. "Buzzer" is what the wife used to cut our kids' hair with.
Take care,
Ray
Strange language thing. In Oz we call things that plane things flat "planers" and things that thickness things "thicknessers". In the US you seem to go with jointers for planers and planers for thicknessers. I have to often remind myself when I read US wood articles.regards,Richard
You know us Americans, we have a different word for everything :-)Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
From Jimbo's original post: I think Jimbo was commenting on the priorities of today's educational system. Took me a few seconds to "get it" after I read Turnstyler's comment.
If you have any questions, feel free to email me, LOL.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
edited by admin
'sounds like a topic to move to the Cafe.
I'd say forget about the hand plane. A good hand plane costs close to what a used jointer costs. And it is hard to get buy with only one hand plane. A jointer will allow you to work with rough lumber. That opens up a lot of options in your projects. It is hard to find clear deminsioned walnut. Aside from soft maple, oak, poplar, and ceadar most lumber is sold rough. Some lumber yards will mill it for you though.
By the way Hand planes are esential tools when your skills progress, but wait untill you get a jointer and planer.
Mike
"By the way Hand planes are esential tools when your skills progress, but wait untill you get a jointer and planer."
Hi Mike,
I'm curious about your position - waiting to acquire hand tool skills until after one buys a jointer & planer - what led you to make that decision for yourself, and to recommend it to others?
I ask because I took the opposite path, and I'm glad I did.
I look forward to reading your reply,-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
I was thinking the same thing my self. It would be like learning to draw in a CAD program and then learning later how to draw using a T-square and triangles. I'm not a hand tool purist by any means, but learning how to flatten a board by hand and then square an edge gives an understanding of the process of squaring lumber.
"...learning how to flatten a board by hand and then square an edge gives an understanding of the process of squaring lumber."
Brian,
Every woodworking project I've ever tackled has required the ability to read the wood grain in order to achieve the best results with the least work; there's nothing quite like hand-tool skills to develop an appreciation for, and understanding of, wood grain and figure. Ask anyone who's involved in carving or hand-cuts mortise & tenon joints or dovetails about the grain in the board they're working and they'll be able to tell you. Ask someone using power tools, in my experience at least, and they'll be less focused on the wood grain.
Some of the students I work with seem totally unaware of the grain and are quite surprised when the wood reacts to their mindless ministrations in unexpected ways. When I learned to square rough stock by hand, there were far fewer surprises because I was familiar of the grain of each board I planed.
That familiarity pays dividends when it's time to glue up panels, as for a table top, because you'll be less likely to join pieces in ways that have their grain fighting each other.
I've heard some "solutions" to woodworking "challenges" that seemed awfully complicated and overdone. In most of those cases, the job could have been performed quickly, easily, and safely using hand tools, but the user did not have those skills.
Call me old fashioned, but I also think kids should all learn to drive a stick shift before they learn to drive an automatic transmission.
Have fun,-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
While I agree that learning to use hand tools is a worthwhile endevor I believe there is also a place for machines in the shop.
In the case of the original post the writer seems to be a new woodworker. I know that when I first started I just wanted to make stuff. If I had to rely on my planing skills I would have quit. I first started with h-depot wood then as my interest grew I realized the need for a jointer. In between I played around with hand planes and have gotten better but i'm still going use my jointer for dimensioning lumber. I use my handplanes for fine tuning and along with scrapers for preparing table tops.
The "romance" is nice but using hand planes properly is somewhat of an art and can sometimes be better learned with some expierince and confidence under your belt.
Scott,
I think you may have confused me with Mike.
I use both industrial power tools and hand tools, and have no romantic interest in either: they're both useful under the right circumstances.
I offer the following points about hand tool skills: (1) They teach the woodworker to read and understand woodgrain in ways that are difficult to achieve using power tools alone; (2) hand tool skills are cumulative and complimentary - learning them earlier makes it easier to branch into new skill areas, like carving; (3) they add to your problem solving options.
-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
Jazzdog,
Yes your correct. I just posted a general reply to the board and it wasn't directed at anyone in particular, yours was just the last post on the board at the time. Sorry my mistake.
Scott
Well....
I guess a lot of it is that I do this for a living. Very sadly, I have never made anything for myself. For me time is importaint , and I don't think that anyone would argue that machines aren't a lot faster. Please don't cast me off a motor head, I understand that hand tools add another deminsion to your work. I have done some bent lamination stuff and spoke shaves, rasps, and hand planes were the ONLY way to do some of the work. However these are obviously relatively advanced techniques that a new comer would not be using.
I have worked in various sales jobs where people buy all the toys but soon loose interest and the stuff collects dust. For example, $2,000 bicycles, windsurf rigs, climbing/hiking, and probably one of the biggest is woodworking. ALL the tools I have (almost all) came from people who lost interest in the craft. They hardly even learned how to use them properly. Starting with hand tools only makes it that more difficult to get results and finish projects. I think that that can discourage a lot of people. That first project is always a work wonder in the eyes of the craftsman, even though years later the open miters and ragged cuts make you chuckle. If you never finish that first project...... a collection of hand planes is just that ...... a collection.
You are correct that a jointer and planer are difficult to manage without a dust collector, but many get buy with a shop-vac or a broom. I'd say the greatest support of my opinion is that it is by far the most popular. You know as well as I that the vast majority of woodworkers buy hand tools after all the basic machines are secured.
In my opinion the surface left by a hand tool is far superior to any machined/sanded surface. Once You have you joinery down and begin to concern yourself with the details of finishing, hand tools become more importaint.
Mikeplease excuse my spelling.
"In my opinion the surface left by a hand tool is far superior to any machined/sanded surface. Once You have you joinery down and begin to concern yourself with the details of finishing, hand tools become more importaint."
Hi Mike,
Just a few points, as I believe you may have attributed some of the comments made by Mike Wallace or others to me (dust collection et al).
I am NOT saying that no one should use power tools until they have mastered hand tools. I believe that hand skills are foundational and cumulative, and that learning them early is likely to pay big dividends as one becomes more deeply involved in woodworking for reasons I've attempted to explain in other posts.
I, too have seen burgeoning hobbyists go on a buying binge, only to end up as a source of barely-used tools at swap meets and garage sales. That's why I don't advocate diving into deep water and buying a shop full of tools until one has tested not only his proclivities and aptitudes, but the depth and staying power of his interest in woodworking.
I don't believe anyone needs to invest in a collection of planes or other hand tools in order to begin learning hand-tool skills. I began with a few plastic-handled chisels, an Arkansas stone, a gent's saw, a few layout tools, and an old #4 that I bought at a yard sale for $1.00 back in the 70s. With these few tools and a much larger investment in books and magazines, I was able to learn quite a bit about wood, using hand tools, and my own limitations. Additional tools, both powered and hand-operated, came later - as-needed for specific projects.
As to whether hand skills are appropriate for someone who makes cabinets or furniture for a living, I can't imagine making either without a combination of hand and power tools: when time is money, a hand tool is sometimes the most cost-effective and expeditious means of getting a job done.
Thanks for your thoughtful reply,
-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
jazz,
I believe that I agree completly with everything you stated. My first tools were a set of Marples chisels, wooden mallet, 2 forestner bits a marking gauge, a tennon saw, and a sharpening jig. With these tools I built ......well nothing. LOL. Actually I made a couple of hand cut M&T joints from left over 2x4's. I promptly brought the fruits of my labor up to Wood Craft and showed then my obvious aptitude as demonstrated by my awsome hand work. Yea right. The guys were very nice and didn't criticize my labor, but now I know that they looked as if someone hacked the mortice with the claw end of a framing hammer and the tennon could have been cut with a chain saw. As I read more I soon decided that I needed a LOT more tools. It was probably one and a half years later that I started collecting the machines of the trade. My handyman business was growing into a small remodeling business and I had the dough to buy machines as I found good deals. Now I have a pretty well equiped shop and have made some damn nice work. Those first hand tools are still always at hand. They get used on every project.
Hand tools teach a lot about how to work lumber, but really machines respond just as noticeably. Run a piece of Red Oak the wrong way across a jointer and you can feel, hear, and see it. Same is true of a planer. Reciently I was making some narrow cathedral raised panel. If you have ever ran a large panel raiser around the top of a tight radius panel you KNOW all about grain and feed directions! So, it is not fair to say you can't learn about wood structure with out hand tools. Heck, if anything good hand tools are more forgiving. My scraper will cut perfectly in any direction, The right plane will happily plane against the grain.
Mikeplease excuse my spelling.
My first tools were a set of Marples chisels, wooden mallet, 2 forestner bits a marking gauge, a tennon saw, and a sharpening jig. With these tools I built ......well nothing. LOL. Actually I made a couple of hand cut M&T joints from left over 2x4's. You actually recognised a basic need to make something and wanted to get the tools to make that happen. I would say you realised in yourself an ability to visualize the process and working it makes it stronger. My own story is quite similar and I still have those first tools still.
Has ther ever been a "my first project" post? I'd love to hear some of yalls stories. I suspect that there may be some laughs.
Mikeplease excuse my spelling.
I cant remember my first project. My woodworking developed out of a childhood need to "make stuff" and woodworking evolved as the dance of choice. I went to college and became an accountant (not CPA) and hated it as a day in day out pursuit. It sure helped my business sense though. I started remodeling in Chicago when Lincoln Park was urban pioneering and kept trying to make more involved stuff. I live in Hawaii now and make a living as a cabinetmaker/custom fabricator. It has been quite a journey and I guess I cant remember that pivotal moment when I realized what I was......and still am. Aloha, Mike
Mike, start this as a new thread - you'll get better response... and I bet it will be worth a laugh or two.Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
I'd say the greatest support of my opinion is that it is by far the most popular. You know as well as I that the vast majority of woodworkers buy hand tools after all the basic machines are secured.
For the record, I agree with you... I started out the exact same way by buying as much of each machine as my limited budget would allow in the mistaken belief that substituting power for skill would flatten the learning curve that every rookie has to get through...
Initial impressions were frustrating; having to saw beautiful 11" wide panels in half to let them fit my 6" jointer struck me as just plain stupid; in my defence I only did this once... Learning that the jointer also had a length restriction was the icing on the cake and fueled my foray into hand tools...
Working with my thicknesser was every bit as frustrating; by the time I'd heaved it onto the bench, set up the dust extractor and outfeed rollers I'd lost about all the shop time I'd have in an evening after work...
Compound having to deal with burst bags, blocked hoses, fouled impellors, switches malfunctioning through ingress of dust etc with the overall mess there was when everything did run right had me questioning my sanity. The straw that broke this camels back was blowing out my back trying to run some oak beams that were to become bed rails; I needed to find a way that gave me more "hands on" time that didn't compromise my health and safety...
For me, that came through switching to hand planes. I didn't make the conversion in one fell swoop, rather, as my collection and experience expanded, I soon reached the point where I could retire the bench top jointer; no more banana boards for me..!! I worked out a routine where I'd joint one face on each board, gradually working through the stack until there was enough boards done to make it worthwhile setting up the thicknesser to blitz the opposite face of the whole stack in one session...
Buying a scrub plane last year finally got my board prep time down to the point where I could think about planing both faces of the board by hand; I haven't looked at the thicknesser since...
Health wise, I'm benefiting in a bunch of ways; I get a cardio vascular work out that'd rival any session in a gym, avoiding the need to lift and haul a 37 kilo thicknesser lessens the risk of my back letting go again, and the lack of dust in the air keeps shop clean-up time down to an acceptable level...
I mentioned the quality aspect previously. What really brought it home to me was an occasion where I'd had to spend ages working around the compass to stay working with the grain on one particular board, only to see that feature ripped to shreds when thicknessing the other face; the machine couldn't cope with the grain reversal no matter how light a cut I took... Jazzdog made the point perfectly saying there's no better way to learn and understand grain than with a hand plane...
By taking this stance, I'm simply trying to express what I've found works for me; guys who make furniture for a living rely on wood munchers to keep production overheads down, and as an amateur I can't argue with that, nor would I insult them by trying to...
I have the luxury of being able to invest as much time as I need to complete a project; given that it took a couple of hundred years for my chosen media to grow to maturity it seems only fair that I invest a few hours worth of effort and sweat trying to bring out the best features it contains...Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Now me... I'd say forget the wood-munchers and their associated dust extractors; by the time you've paid for and set that lot up, you could have yourself a really respectable range of hand planes that'll give any board you like a finish that no wood muncher can imitate much less equal... and all without any board width limitations...
Armed with a scrub plane, a jack plane, jointer plane and smoother you'll be capable of producing quality boards of any width (the limiting factor being your reach), any overall length while only paying a penalty in overall time taken, and really, that penalty isn't all that great when you realise that time spent with a well tuned smoothing plane is time gained by negating the need for a sander; hand planes produce a flat, even surface while even the best wood munchers produce a corrugated surface...
Hand tools come into their own when limited shop space is a factor; the big power tools need their footprint plus double the length of the board in working space in addition to the footprint and ducting associated with dust extractors; hand planes need a good strong bench and a shelf or cupboard to store them when you're done... Ohhhh... and a dustpan and broom... ;)
It's not all rosy in the hand tool garden however; I've learned to my cost that the bloody things are addictive... buy one.. ya need another... and another... and another simply because they'll leave power tools dead in the water when it comes to the quality of the finished product...
Hand planes have survived over 2 millenia for one simple reason... they have no equal...Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Greetings,
In an effort of full disclosure I wanted to inform everyone in this thread that I've deleted a comment from the original post. I don't mean to discourage discussion on this topic whatsoever. Any questions, please send an email to me ([email protected]) or sysop.
Regards,
Matt Berger
Taunton New Media
Planers and jointers have at their heart the same thing, a horizontal cylinder turned on its axis by a motor, with knives on it to scrape away a small amount of wood and produce a smooth surface. The difference lies in how the wood is guided.
If the wood is guided by the same surface being smoothed, or by that and a surface perpendicular to it (a fence), the machine is a jointer.
If the wood is guided by the opposite surface, to produce a uniform desired thickness, it's called a planer. In other countries, the same thing is called -- more naturally -- a thicknesser.
For a small personal shop, it makes good sense to combine all these functions into a single machine because the heart of it, the cylinder and knives, is the same for both.
-- J.S.
Bob Marley was a "jointer". Had to say it..I just had to!
Wicked Decent Woodworks
(oldest woodworking shop in NH)
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
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