Replies

1. 
   RSRose | Sep 02, 2002 01:33am | #1

   Outback,

   Go here:

   http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00060.asp

   For a discussion of finishes by Jeff Jewitt. Scroll to the heading, "What finishes are more durable?"

   I suggest almost any polyurethane or Behlen's Rock Hard Table Top Varnish which is an alkyd varnish, well suited to your need.

   Rich

1. 
   ChasStanford | Sep 02, 2002 01:46am | #2

   Stainless steel cladding.

2. 
   Alan | Sep 03, 2002 12:26am | #3

   Outback,

   I'm not sure what kind of use you're worried about; but in most hard-use situations where the wood will be looked at closely I wouldn't recommend epoxy (even though I'm a huge epoxy fan).  Epoxy is not real scratch resistant by itself.  It does cure very hard, but I don't think it would be nearly as scratch resistant as a good bar top varnish.  In boats and similar applications epoxy is often used as the resin with fiberglass fabric.  The fiberglass is extremely abrasion resistant, and goes far in keeping the epoxy from being worn through.  But again, the epoxy by itself does scratch.

   Also, by itself epoxy doesn't look as nice on wood as does a good varnish: it has a little of the "plastic" look to it, and the color can (not always) conflict with the wood tones.  Epoxy can be quite beautiful on wood if it is coated with a finish such as varnish.  But then there would be little reason to use the epoxy.

   IMHO a good quality bar top varnish will give you the properties you seem to be looking for:  it is very hard, and very resistant to liquids and most solvents.

   Alan

3. 
   oldlou | Sep 04, 2002 06:13am | #4

   I only have one word for you. Granite.

1. 
   CRATE4U | Sep 04, 2002 07:16am | #5

    Lou, granite is a material that is quarried and from  a  rock formation! It is a wonderful product for counter tops, however this is a woodworking forum and the question was about a durable finish for a wood counter top. you might want to try that reply on fine homebuilding!

1. 
   UncleDunc | Sep 04, 2002 07:41am | #6

   Wood is wonderful stuff, that's why we're all here talking about it. But it's not the best choice for every application. We don't build computers out of wood, or jetliners, or skyscrapers. I've seen the question of a durable finish for wood countertops raised dozens of times, in the magazines, here, and on other forums, and the usual answer is that there isn't one. The best people can do is say that this product will last for three years, or five years, as opposed to that product that starts to flake off in 18 months, or another product that adheres OK but you start seeing mold under it after a while.

   So I'll vote with Lou. The answer is granite. And I don't think that takes anything away from fine woodworking. Somebody still has to make the cabinet under the countertop.

1. 
   RSRose | Sep 04, 2002 08:33am | #7

   Well guys, the question wasn't, "What's the best material for a counter top?" It was, "What is the ultimate (Juniper) counter top finish?"

   If he's got a wood counter top, what's the use telling him to use granite? Point well taken that granite's good. But, SO?

   Rich

1. 
   DennisS | Sep 04, 2002 09:14am | #8

   I'm not suggesting this is a "good" finish but ....

   Some years ago I had a darkroom and needed a movable shelf under the enlarger - which was mounted to the wall. I experimented with nothing more than a piece of particle board underlayment, a nice big piece of drafting linen - beautiful stuff - and coat after coat of plain old spar varnish sanded lightly between coats. I forget now how many coats it took before I built up a finish to bridge the texture of the linen, but it really made a rather handsome, and quite durable for the application, surface.

   Dennis in Bellevue WA

   [email protected]

2. 
   RSRose | Sep 04, 2002 06:47pm | #9

   Dennis,

   Spar varnish is a poor choice for a table top or counter top as it is formulated never to completely harden. It remains soft enough in most cases to be gouged with a thumbnail, and easily with any heavy, hard-edged object placed on it.

   Rich

   Edited 9/4/2002 11:47:57 AM ET by Rich Rose

3. 
   DennisS | Sep 04, 2002 06:58pm | #10

   OK, so it was some other kind of varnish (grin) - it did get pretty hard as I recall.

   Dennis in Bellevue WA

   [email protected]

4. 
   Gretchen | Sep 04, 2002 08:20pm | #12

   Spar varnish is a poor choice for a table top or counter top as it is formulated never to completely harden. It remains soft enough in most cases to be gouged with a thumbnail, and easily with any heavy, hard-edged object placed on it

   I really don't want to start the spar varnish war again and don't particularly think it is appropriate for a countertop, but I just wonder why I can't "gouge my finishes with a fingernail" and lift them from table and chest tops as you say you do. And why my kitchen table is able to withstand many things put on it without being scratched or water ringed or heat ringed.  Gretchen

5. 
   RSRose | Sep 04, 2002 09:21pm | #13

   Oh, boy. Here we go again!

   Gretchen, spar applied full strength remains softer than other (short oil) varnishes. Some more than others. You apply spar thinned 50/50, yes? And build the film with many thin coats. I have tried that method and my completely non-scientific thumbnail gouge test seems to find a harder final film applying that way.

   But the admonition remains, that spar forms a softer final surface than short oil varnishes. Softer, more flexible, tougher, more able to fend off the ravages of sun wind and salt water and easier to scuff up and recoat on a frequent basis.

   I dunno, maybe some "spars" are harder than some "regulars" but the general rule is valid.

   Rich

6. 
   Gretchen | Sep 04, 2002 10:35pm | #14

    

   Gretchen, spar applied full strength remains softer than other (short oil) varnishes. Some more than others. You apply spar thinned 50/50, yes? And build the film with many thin coats. I have tried that method and my completely non-scientific thumbnail gouge test seems to find a harder final film applying that way.

   Thank you.  That may indeed be the reason.  But if someone reading this listens to your blanket statement they might miss the point.  And a flexible finish on a piece of furniture is not necessarily a bad thing--it might "give" rather than chip.

   I don't think there is any need to continue this beyond this--Gretchen

7. 
   frenchafry | Sep 06, 2002 06:04am | #20

   I may as well put in my two cents worth. I have never found a wood finish that would hold up to a counter top application. Polyurethanes as well as epoxies cna chip and separate from wood surfaces causing ugly spots and difficult patching. I have seen and used one method that works very well and has several benefits for food surface areas. Walnut oil.....that's right... sounds crazy but I believe it's the best kept secret out there. Lets start with a few of the positives and then some negatives then you decide. First, walnut oil does not become rancid which is a good thing for food surfaces. It's easy to apply by rubbing several coats in the wood and letting them dry. After several applications the wood will not accept more oil. You now have a surface tha looks like the wood you chose with no finish to speak of...however stains wipe right off with soap and water. Any scratches can be repaired by wiping morer oil on. The down side is there is not the satin or gloss finish you may want but I believe you'll be happy none the less. I have this finish on my center work island. It's a maple butcherblock that I made. Been there going on 4 years. Even cut on it occasionally. Never had to re-apply the oil still repells coffee stains, looks great. My neighbor has a 3 inch cherry counter top with a similar oil finish and likewise has had no problems. Maybe you could try a test block. You can buy walnut oil in your grocery store.

8. 
   oldlou | Sep 07, 2002 03:21am | #21

   "My neighbor has a 3 inch cherry countertop" Oh my, can I move into your neighborhood, I just want to touch it.

9. 
   frenchafry | Sep 07, 2002 08:15am | #22

   yep, 3 three inches.

2. 
   oldlou | Sep 04, 2002 07:02pm | #11

   I agree, wood is a wonderful material, but it and it's finishes have limitations. The thought of it as a countertop has appealed to all of us, some have tried to make it work, but in my limited knowledge, all who did, failed in varying degrees.

   IMHO you are setting yourself up for disappointment and a frustrating life for your wife and family as they try to keep your dream alive and beautiful. Best of luck though, someone will eventually crack this very hard nut.

4. 
   Paul_Snyder | Sep 04, 2002 11:07pm | #15

   Let's start with how you plan to apply the finish and the level of toxicity you're comfortable with. Can you spray a coating that is fairly hazardous or are you looking for the best brush/wipe-on finish?

   Paul

   F'burg, VA

1. 
   CRATE4U | Sep 05, 2002 12:47am | #16

   spray on, brush on, wipe on, pour on? Just looking for a durable finish for wood counter top. Something that will withstand some abuse! Thanks for the reply! 

1. 
   Paul_Snyder | Sep 05, 2002 04:00am | #17

   Ignoring all the usual "these are scary dangerous" warnings that usually accompany recommendations for catalyzed coatings, here's a shopping list.

   The most protective finish would be a thick, durable coating like the one at this link - http://www.eti-usa.com/consum/envtex/envlite.htm - (the degree of protection is based on the thickness of the finish - overall this may be your best choice)

   After that, polyester (80% the hardness of glass - the "toughest" of all finishes), then a two component (2K) urethane, then a good conversion varnish.

   You can get polyester and 2K urethane from - http://www.seagravecoatings.com/wood_finishes.htm

   For a conversion varnish, use Valspar Global Resistovar conversion varnish - http://www.woodfinishingsupplies.com/Lilly.htm

   Sherwin Williams also has some good finishes like Sher-Wood Super Kemvar - a catalyzed vinyl coating - it's used in labratory settings - http://www.sherwin.com/OEM/wood/products/systems/default.asp

   Pick the one that sounds best (both in terms of durability and ease/safety of application). Any of these will do an excellent job compared to varnishes and polyurethanes you'll find at your local hardware. If you have boating repair shops in your area, they also stock some quality 2K urethanes.

   (the small print) I don't endorse your using any of these products outside the manufacturer's guidelines.

   Paul

   F'burg, VA

   Edited 9/4/2002 9:27:05 PM ET by Paul

1. 
   RSRose | Sep 05, 2002 04:05am | #18

   That's the definitive response to this question.

   Great links, Paul.

   Now respond to my post about spraying waterborne polys!

   Rich

2. 
   CRATE4U | Sep 05, 2002 07:31am | #19

   Thanks Paul! Checked out the links great information! Very helpful! Thanks to all other posters to this thread. I believe I have the information I needed Thanks!!!