What is this little fastener (machinery)
OK, you’ve got a round rod going through a circular frame piece. To hold the round rod in a fixed position, there is a tiny hole drilled through both the rod and the casting around it, and there’s a little sleeve that goes through the whole shootin’-match, the trick being the sleeve appears to be threaded on the inside. But you can see all the way through this hollow sleeve.
What are they called, and how do I get them out? I’m dismantling the little Inca table saw I bought, and there are at least 3 of these I need to remove to get the rods out for cleaning.
Good news: the motor does run. The bad news: There isn’t any so far! Yipeeee!!!
forestgirl — you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can’t take the forest out of the girl 😉
Replies
The little "sleeve" sounds like a roll pin. Try searching for that. I'd not expect it to be threaded inside though. They're just pins to hold things together, that are in the shape of a cylinder with a cut along the side to allow it to hold tight by a spring fit.
You get them out by using a thin rod to push one end as you tap them out. They should come out easily.
Thanks Alan and Jamie. Perhaps I'm imagining the threads. These things are so tiny, anything's possible. I just hope I don't lose them when I punch them out!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Jamie,
Take note when you punch them out - you will most likely mushroom one end a little. When you go to replace that pin, drive the other end in first. When these roll pins are new, both ends are slightly chamfered. Once you beat on one end, it can become difficult to drive that end back into the hole (DAMHIKT)
Good news is, if it is beat up bad enough, any good ace hardware should have replacements that will fit.
Good luck with the saw, and don't forget to post some pics when you get her finished.
Lee
Roll pins are spring pins in that they are spring steel with a narrow gap along their length. They close up slightly when pressed (not hammered) in place. If you must, press them out, tools for the job are easily obtainable and are not expensive.
These remarks apply to Inca of which I have had experience.
Except for the internal threading, you seem to be describing a roll pin. Roll pins are held in place by friction. They're installing by driving them in with a hammer or punch. They're removed by driving them through the hole and hole the other side.
Jamie, definitely a roll pin, but if I were you I would try to avoid removing them just for cleaning. If they are where I think they are they will be tight-and aluminium grabs onto them -so when you want to replace them they may not be tight again.There are also serrated roll pins made for aluminium and soft metals-beware. Philip marcou
Edited 10/18/2007 2:14 am by philip
Dear Jamie,
I think that Philip offers sound advise. Proceed with caution.Best,John
<<Proceed with caution>>The Evel One has mellowed. Say it ain't so.
Dear Mike,
I have my weak moments..........John
Hi, Philip. Thanks for the cautionary note, but I don't see much choice here. The frame is aluminum, but the rods that are inserted are steel, and that's what I need to "clean" -- they've got rust, and the only way to get that rusty part cleaned up is to remove it from the frame.
I'll be gentle, do my best not to score the aluminum. They really are very tiny, amazingly so. Will try and get some kind of hobby rod that will fit just right to tap it out with.
Fortunately, there are only two that really need this treatment. Everything else is in great shape. This is a sweet little saw.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
"...the only way to get that rusty part cleaned up is to remove it from the frame."
Phosphoric acid-based rust removers work pretty well in cramped quarters. An additional advantage that they have is that if you leave any traces behind it doesn't really do any harm.
However: They will attack aluminum if left long enough. Aluminum has a naturally-occurring oxide on its surface that mostly protects it from corrosion. Phosphoric acid will very slowly eat away at that oxide. But if you leave the rust remover in contact with the aluminum long enough for it to make it all of the way through the oxide, it will voraciously attack the underlying aluminum.
-Steve
Steve, I would never, ever use phosphoric acid-based rust remover on a tool! I use EvapoRust, which is not an acid and doesn't harm the metal (or plastic, or paper for that matter). I used Naval Jelly on a saw blade once -- never again! :-(forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
If you used Naval Jelly on a saw blade with bad results, it means that the metal was already beyond recovery. That's why it works--it only reacts with rust, not metallic iron.
-Steve
You're the first person I've ever corresponded with that had kind things to say about Naval Jelly. I still like EvapoRust better. It doesn't matter how rusty something is, the surface that's left behind is decent looking. Granted, if it was pitted to begin with, it'll be pitted afterward, but as decent looking as is possible.
Not having to work with an acid is a major benefit, IMHO. No worries about splashing it on something, getting it on my skin, etc. Benign and effective is as good as it gets.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Jaimie, they make straight sided "pin punches" just for the purpose. Sears used to sell good ones under the Craftsman namebrand, but I can't speak for the current run, (haven't needed to replace any of the ones I bought in 76). They currently have them starting at 1/16th diameter, and up in 1/32nd inch increments for about $5 each.
Anyway, get the right sized punch and use it. Things will be lots easier.
I generally by new pins for the reassembly, and chamfer the leading end just a tad.
Thanks for the tip, Jigs! Don't know if I can find a pin punch at our local Ace Hardware, but there's a big windstorm coming in tonight, so I may not get much done anyway (too many huge trees right next to the shop, and who knows how long our power will be on!). In which case, I'll toddle on over to Sears tomorrow and see what I can find. I'm due for some "retail therapy" since hubby took off for his first hunting trip this morning, and he left a $100 bill on the nightstand, LOL!!!
Ja_mie (one i, thanks! I get dizzy when there are too many, ROFL!!!)
PS: How do you chamfer a little teeny tiny roll pin?
'PPS: If the power goes out and I miss that ballgame tonight, I'z gonna be P.O.'d!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hi Forest Girl,The chamfer is already on the pin, though it may need touching up with a small stone. A ordinary ring shank panel nail with the tip ground flat makes a perfect pin punch for the smallest pins. The punch needs to be a close match to the pin diameter, too small and it will get jammed in the hollow center, too big and it will tear up the hole. There is no need to replace the pin if it isn't damaged during removal, and in this case they are metric which you aren't likely to find a source for. A touch of grease or oil in the hole will make reassembly go smoother.Mark the shaft and the castings so you can put them back together the exact same way they are now assembled, the holes won't line up otherwise if you scramble the parts or even if you rotate the shaft 180 degrees.John White
Edited 10/18/2007 6:12 pm ET by JohnWW
Thanks for the tips, John. I think I'll work over a cookie sheet with a couple strong rare earth magnets, so I don't lose the darn little things. I'd die if I lost one and couldn't replace it!
I wonder if being metric's going to make it hard to find a punch. Ace Hardware had display place for the punches, but they don't stock them (probably no market -- the Island's getting way too urbanized, LOL) and Lumbermen's didn't have anything smaller than 1/8". Checking Sears tomorrow.
I was thinking I'd put a dab of oil on before I tap them out,. This dismantle/clean process is going to take me longer than it should because I know better than to take the whole saw apart at once, or I will get confused about where stuff goes. The Inca isn't like any tool I've played with before, so no frame of reference.
Not sure what a "ring shank panel nail" is, but I'll find out. (Bought a box of panelliing nails recently, do they qualify?)forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
If you can't find the right size punch, find a drill bit that's a good fit in the hole. Drill into the end of a mild-steel bolt so that you've got only the amount of the drill's base exposed that you'll need, then grind the end of the drill flat and you've got a custom-sized punch.
Panel nails are painted various shades of brown and black so that the heads will blend in when driven flush with prefinished paneling. They are either 1 inch or 1 5/8 inch long. They have a serrated shank that makes them nearly impossible to pull out. They are my favorite nail for all sorts of nailing. They're hardened steel so they make good punches. The pins will likely only need a light tapping to get them out, an ordinary nail may be tough enough to get them loose, don't get too obsessive about finding the right tool, it may not be needed. As suggested, if possible place the casting over some kind of support leaving room for the pin to move. The pins won't fly off anywhere if you are tapping gently and paying attention, you can hold the exposed pin as you hit it the last few taps.John W.
Well, I just bought a whole box of those nail (and only needed a dozen or so), so I'll dig 'em out and give it a try!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Jamie if you have a Harbor freight near you they carry them. Not the greatest quality but for one or two time use you can't beat the price.
Jack
Hey, everyone. I got a set of pin punches at Sears and got the roll pins out. More later.....I'm in the throes of cleaning up the shop for the electrician, and working on the Inca sporadically. Thanks for the help!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
ATTAGURL!
ATTAGURL!I said that once to my three year old grandaughter and she said "My name is "Cai Li"... (As in K Lee) She is from China.. One of my sweethearts!
CAI LI, What a beautiful name, Be sure to tell her that. Ask her if she'd like to meet my grandson (10 yrs old)his name is Gillen.
Rhymes with Villian. I've been calling Forest girl 'Gurl 'for yearsGurl (To me) means Guttsy and Jamie sure is one guttsy Gal She's not a 'fraidy cat' as are lot of pampered princesses I meet here in CT. She's creative and not afraid to tackle machinery . Also she's not
averse to asking questions when she runs into a WW problem.
I frequently ask for her advice. (She's a whiz with computers.)
She also (As you do)responds to everyones reply. Steinmetz
John, I have another couple of questions for you. Simple curiosity. First: there are a couple of nuts that are in a style I've never seen. They're too small for my whimply camera to get a good picture of, but the are round (i.e., no flats) and have a slot across the top. Said slot looks like you might use a screwdriver in it, but of course the bolt gets in the way once the nut is installed. What's the idea there?
Second: Pictured below is the adjustment knob for the height of the horizontal boring table. I was hoping to take it off, but didn't see an easy way to do it. Of course the table follows it, wherever it goes, either up or down, and when it gets to the end of the shaft, that's it, no more travel. So I'm guessing that what looks like a brass washer of sorts is actually part of a sleeve that goes the full length. What can you tell me about this and how it works? Thanks!
View Image
View Imageforestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Sorry to jump into this thread FG, but you mighr be referring to a "tamper proof" type nut or terminal It require's a hollow shafted screwdriver which had it's blade tip ground to leave two projections that will fit the nuts notches If you have enough working room, try a pair of small vise grip pliers to gently un- screw the thing .There's a bunch of tamper proof screws and fasteners out there . also a bunch of special screw drivers to fit them
I'll try to use paint to draw a sketch to describe a tool you can make fron a bent piece of flat spring steel that may help. EdI think they are called spanner nuts?Edited 10/25/2007 12:26 am ET by Steinmetz
Edited 10/25/2007 9:42 am ET by Steinmetz
Stein, I figured there was a special tool for those, but having just bought a pair of those special pinchers for the little "spring" fastener things,** I cheaped out and resorted to cushioned pliers. The nuts were just barely tightened, as it turned out, so the came off with hardly any persuasion. That ease of removal was one thing that led to my asking about them. There didn't seem to be much reason for the design's subtrefruge. It would appear the previous owner might have removed them and not had the correct tool to tighten them properly!
**I actually know their name, but it's 5:37 a.m. and my brain's file system is still locked up.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
here's the spanner
One type of spanner driver is shown in the attached image. This kind works as long as the bolt doesn't extend too far through the nut.
The other kind (called a "spanner wrench") looks sort of like this, except that the "teeth" are a bit longer, and have a 90° bend in them. You hold it more or less like a normal wrench, with the two teeth engaged in the two slots on either side of the protruding bolt.
-Steve
Ah, thanks Steve. The little Inca's the first tool I've tampered with that had those. I might pick up a spanner driver just so I can tighten them a bit better.
Had my very first "tap" experience yesterday. Was assembling a mobile base, and got to the very last part -- the foot/bolt assembly that the base drops down onto when you're not rolling it around -- and the darned thing wouldn't go together. The "receiver" for the bolt had some kind of problem with the threads right at the exit end. Grrrrrrr (it was after midnight Tuesday, patience running short). Went and bought the 12 mm 1.75 pitch tap that was needed, raided my late FIL's tool chest for a handle (he was a machinist, had all that stuff!) and successfully cleaned it out. Took 4 passes though, really gunked and bunged up somehow.
OK, so that's not a real tap, but it's a start.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
forestgirl;
You need a set of pin punches (this is what they are made for). Hobby rod is too soft. Pin punches are tool steel. The good ones will last a long time with occasional deburring of the tip and a bit of flattening. The cheap chinese versions are more of a temporary tool but should still get a pin or two out. The smaller they are the greater the need for a quality punch to work with.
Here's a link: http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=12625&title=%23565+PIN+PUNCH+SET
Edited 10/19/2007 10:36 am ET by bigfootnampa
forestgirl;You need a set of pin punches (this is what they are made for). Right ON answer to Forest! I have worked with metal ALOT.. These punches WORK and the pilot pin they have will keep the integrity of the casting and pin..One of those tools that WORK and you never know when you may need them!
A couple of digital photos would make the mystery a little easier I think
Hey Gurl, Buy a can of Rust Buster or, 3 in 1 Penetrant spray to free up stuck roll pins
Buy a pin punch of the size needed. Place the part directly over a vise with the jaws open enough for the extracted pin to pass through (and a little clearance)
Have hubby hold the thing in place while you use a small hammer or mallet, to strike the pin punch (centered on the roll pin( till it's not quite all the way out.
Leave the pin jutting out (The better to reinsert.
Clean the rust with a fine wire brush or, a wire wheel attached to your electric drill?
To re-attach the part, reverse the routine with the part lined up to the hole. The pin punch looks like a nail set ,BUT, the shank is straight not tapered. If the opposite side of the pin shows rust, just punch it out enough to wire brush that end too.
Steinmetz.
Edited 10/25/2007 9:25 pm ET by Steinmetz
Stein, it's not so much the pins that need cleaning, it's the rod that they're holding into the frame, hence the whole thing needs to come apart. Thanks for the idea though.
We had no power this afternoon/early evening, so everything's waiting until tomorrow.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 10/19/2007 1:01 am by forestgirl
Jamie, I tried to find a reference to your Inca saw.
Am curious to know which specific rods you are referring to. If these rods are 3/8" (or less in diameter), I would chuck them in a portable drill and spin the rod while holding a wad of steel wool around the rotating rod and all the while, traversing the pad from left to right. It will remove the rust and leave a nice polish.O T O H, If the rod is fatter,(using gloves) chuck it in your drill press or,lathe to sand or polish the rotatimng item. I have refurbished many many tools of every sort and my favorite polishing attachment is a 1"x 6" Scotchbrite wheel mounted on an arbor that fits any electric drill. It will last years and you'll love the result. Steinmetz.
On the Bob Villa forum, there's a discussion involving the saw and it's manual. Stein.Mc Master Carr has them in their catalog
Edited 10/25/2007 9:31 pm ET by Steinmetz
The saw I have is the small one (a 6" blade) and eddiefromaustralia gave me the link to the manual in my original thread <click> about the little saw. I can't tell what saw they're talking about on the Bob Villa site (thank Heavens we don't have their format! Yuck!). There's also an Inca woodworking group at Yahoo.
The bigger saw is quite a find, and shows up occasionally on eBay. Actually, I found one on Craig's list last night, along with the bandsaw:
http://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/tls/453124288.htmlforestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Congrats Jamie. What a find!
I would dearly love to take that machine apart and restore it to it's former glory. I just restored a beautiful Stanley router and it purrs like a kitten and shines like the fire in a cat's eye. I've got a"Thing" for Stanley routers Have 5 to date. The only thing missing is the bulb for the attached lamp fixture. Anybody know where to buy one? Stanley routers were the best American Made router/planers for years. They sold out to Bosch some years ago. The Stanley feature I like best, is you can attach 2 (TWO)edge guides
back to back on their bases. Most of those rusty Inca rods can be cleaned and buffed with wire wheels and the aforementioned Scotchbrite wheels.Best of luck, Stein.
Edited 10/19/2007 1:11 pm ET by Steinmetz
FG, pin punches, like transfer punches, have a protuding dimple in the centre of the end. It keeps it on track and stops you mashing the sides of the seating.
My set were made by RS.
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