Replies

1. 
   jonsherryl | Dec 16, 2003 04:35pm | #1

   Bert, there's too much shine on photo # 03 to see the figure. Operating on the assumption that it might be canarywood or satinwood, did you notice an unusual, sort of spicy scent to the wood?...or did it have an oily feel, relative to the birds-eye maple? It would also be helpful to know how it compares in density to the other woods you're using.  

1. 
   BertJ | Dec 16, 2003 05:40pm | #4

   Thanks for the reply, Jon. The wood is similar to maple in hardness and not at all oily. I did notice an unusual aroma from the wood, so it seems like your assessment of canary wood may be correct. There is no noticable figure to the wood, and the grain is very straight and tight. I don't think it is yellow pine, which tends to the orange. This is REALLY yellow.

   BJ

   By the way, I tried to look it up at the Hough web site, but there appears to be no North American wood that looks anything like this.

   Edit #2: I checked out a photo of canarywood from the Woodworker's Source, and it doesn't look like my yellow stuff.

   BJ

   Edited 12/16/2003 9:47:21 AM ET by Bert

   Edited 12/16/2003 10:40:15 AM ET by Bert

   Edited 12/16/2003 10:40:56 AM ET by Bert

2. 
   BertJ | Dec 16, 2003 07:00pm | #8

   Jon,

   Here's the picture I found for canarywood in Woodworker's Source:

   It is described as "tan with yellow and brown stripes." Nope, that doesn't work.

   Is it possibly the wood known as Osage Orange--even though it doesn't have an orange cast, the photo I found looked more like the yellow cast of my wood.

   The photo of satinwood I found also has some of the characteristics--very even grain and no streaking.

   BJ

   
1. 
   DGermeroth | Dec 17, 2003 04:29am | #28

   If you've got any scrap left, you can perform a simple test.  The extractives in Osage Orange are soluable in water.  Spit on a piece of end grain and rub it around.  If it turns yellow, it's osage orange.

2. 
   DennisS | Dec 18, 2003 07:17am | #37

   Bert -

   I've looked at a couple of the photos you've posted. I can't add anything with respect to identifing the wood you have, but I'd venture a guess that it's not the Yellowwood that I know. Unless the photos are way off in color register, it's not nearly as dark a yellow as what I found inside the yellowwood log I had. Further, from what little I know of the tree habit, I don't think it gets big enough to develop a grain figure as displayed in the box top you showed in your original post.

   I may have a scrap of the yellowwood I was given that I could dig up and even send you if you would like to compare to your sample.

   Lemme know and send you snail mail address via email if you're interested. The scrap wouldn't be big enough to do anything with, though.

   ...........

   Dennis in Bellevue WA

   [email protected]

1. 
   Sphere | Dec 18, 2003 04:51pm | #38

   Doesn't the Forest Service or somthing like that have an Identification service..I once had what someone refered to "american Mahahogony" And sent a pc. off. This was 10 + yrs. ago, I forget the particulars. It turnaed out to be Brown Ash..Fraxinus somthing..neat wood, I just wish that I had noticed how cool it was before I burnt a cord of it. AAARRGG.

1. 
   jonsherryl | Dec 18, 2003 07:25pm | #41

   Sphere, yes, the USDA Forest Products Laboratory in Madison, Wisconsin, can ID wood. They have a specialist, Regis Miller, who is probably Top Gun in the world in this field. Like most government operations, they're not staffed to handle a deluge of requests from woodworkers, so I don't go to Regis for help unless I'm really stumped on a wood ID.

   I have a sample collection of somewhere around 400 of the world's more common commercial timbers for making comparisons. Most woods have some anatomical feature which can be seen with only 10X magnification that allows you to identify at least the family and often the genus...and I can nail down most of the major domestic timbers without any lab fascilities, but it's amazing what they can do. There are also other labs and university departments you can go to around the country and around the world that have the capability and equipment to do microscopic analysis and chemical tests and they're especially good at IDing their regional flora...but the FPL is where I'd go to get a virtually certain ID.

   As for black ash (AKA brown ash; Fraxinus nigra), I'd agree, you let a good one get away. I think it's the nicest of the ash species. It's a little softer, has an attractive natural tan-gray color...and, because it's a northern species and typically experiences slower growth, it usually has a much more complex and interesting figure than the other, white ashes. The southern pumpkin ash is also a moderately soft ash and a pleasure to work with, but I prefer black ash, when I can find it. I think the Canadians have the best of it, but fortunately it's pretty common in northern Michigan and back when I used to cruise the smaller mills up there I could get it cheap. A lot of ash is used for pallets and crating, where the denser white ash is functionally superior, so it's sometimes possible to get some real deals on black ash.

   Unfortunately, we're on the eve of a real catastrophy with ash. An Asian bettle has gotten introduced (in fact, probably via crating shipped into the Detroit area here a few years ago) and I'm afraid our native ashes will be going the way of American elm and chestnut over the next few decades. Don't think there's any way we'll be able to stop it.

   Edited 12/18/2003 11:27:58 AM ET by Jon Arno

3. 
   Jimma | Dec 16, 2003 10:20pm | #17

   Hi, Jon! Bert's pictures are a bit yellowish overall, but I still think his cover may be yellowheart which Woodcraft sells and identifies as Acer macrophyllum.

   Are you snowed under?

1. 
   UncleDunc | Dec 16, 2003 11:35pm | #18

   >> Acer macrophyllum

   Well, that might explain why a couple of us thought it looked like maple.

2. 
   jonsherryl | Dec 16, 2003 11:57pm | #19

   Hi Jim. We got a little snow a couple of days ago, but it's gone now. Just your normal rainy, murky day here in southeastern Michigan.

   As for Acer macrophyllum, this is the botanical name for western bigleaf maple. There's a good chance that could be our mystery wood here. I still can't make out the figure in any of these photos yet. It does appear to be a birds-eye and western  bigleaf is known for it's special figures; both birds-eye and quilted. Bigleaf is a "soft" maple and approximately 20% less dense than our eastern hard maple (AKA sugar maple.)

   The next step in this process would be to get into the short strokes on end-grain anatomy...or send me a sample. From what I can see of the texture of the wood, it doesn't appear to be Osage orange or mulberry. They are both bright yellow when freshly cut, but they are also both ring-porous woods. 

1. 
   jcousins | Dec 17, 2003 12:38am | #22

   pau amarello - also known as satin wood.

   jerry

2. 
   fdampier5 | Dec 17, 2003 02:25am | #23

   I gave seen Birch with similar color and grain structure but only after several years of exposure to sunlite..

3. 
   adamb | Dec 17, 2003 05:16am | #29

   how about Pequia Amarello is a species of Aspidosperma from South America. The lovely chrome-yellow color is fairly color fast..... link http://www.gilmerwood.com/unique3.htm

   I don't think that it is Curly Big Leaf Maple but here is a link(Acer macrophyllum)

   http://www.gilmerwood.com/photo%20html/09-18-03w1426.htm

   or even some yellow Eucalyptus I have worked with some of this stuff.

   it cuts... bad ... stringy.... don't like it.  but it can be really yellowChristmas is coming..... should I buy the wife that new tablesaw ....hmmmm

1. 
   jonsherryl | Dec 17, 2003 06:08am | #30

   Adam, Yes, Aspidosperma is another viable candidate...And some of the species in the "peroba" group of this genus do get marketed as "amarello." Some of them do lean toward vivid yellow...but most of them are streaked with brown or rose colored hues and they tend to be much denser than even our native hard maple. The interesting thing, though, is some of them DO occasionally produce a speckled or spotted figure that is vaguely similar to birds-eye maple...So, you might be on to something here. Aspidosperma belongs to the Apocynaceae family. These timbers don't always have a pronounced scent, but probably the best quick clue is that they tend to have a very bitter taste.

   I suppose Bert could do a taste test and suck on some fine shavings of; first the maple...and then the mystery wood...The perobas (Aspidosperma) are toxic, so I wouldn't recommend a heavy dose on the second round. They contain some extractives that appear to stimulate allergic reaction in some people...But more ominously, they also contain some alkaloids (quebrachine-type), that in high enough doses have the potential to affect the cardiovascular system, even in individuals that are not allergically sensitive.

   ---

   ...So, in the odd chance that Bert's taste buds don't pick up on the bitterness...even after the second spoonful...if his heart starts to palpitate and it gets downright hard to breathe...then it's probably peroba. :O)...(Just kidding, Bert. If you do try a taste test, don't put more than the slightest pinch of this stuff on your tongue and don't leave it in there any longer than it takes to get a sense of the taste.)    

   Edited 12/16/2003 10:41:08 PM ET by Jon Arno

2. 
   BertJ | Dec 17, 2003 09:58am | #32

   Jon,

   Attached are two more pictures. The remaining piece is about 9.5" X 5.25" X 1.5". The end grain shot may be helpful.

   Bert

   
3. 
   jonsherryl | Dec 17, 2003 01:00pm | #33

   Bert, that end grain shot isn't close enough to really explore the wood's anatomy in detail...but if I'm reading it right, this is a ring-porous wood with well defined and very uniform growth increments. It is highly doubtful that it is rain-forest tropical in origin. Some dry-season tropical woods produce growth increments, but those in this wood are so well defined it sure looks like a temperate species to me...and, given the gross appearance of that end-grain it is very unlikely that it is a maple.

   Two thoughts come to mind (in order of probability):

   MULBERRY. This gets a little hard to explain with words...But examine the smoothly cut end grain with a 10X lens. First, confirm that the annual ring is composed of a band of noticeably larger pores (in other words, verify that the wood is indeed ring-porous)...Now, look at the pores in the latewood. Do they appear to be mostly in small clusters or short chains that seem to form sort of zig-zag (cheveron shaped) repeating patterns? And do the final pores late in the growth increment seem to shift (bend over) to form discontinuous tangential (as opposed to mostly radial) chains? The pores will contain a frothy substance (tyloses) that looks sort of like the bubbles in frozen shaving cream...but do some of the pores also contain chalky white crystals (the result of congealed latex-like sap)?

   SASSAFRAS. Sand the wood vigorously and see if you detect a mild but pleasantly spicy scent. Is the wood noticeably lighter in weight than the wood you are sure is birds-eye maple? Sassafras is only slightly denser than yellow poplar, but it is clearly ring-porous and it does sometimes develop a mottled pattern of small highly lustrous patches that gives it a sort of birds-eye shimmer in the light...While the mature heartwood of this species typically develops a soft cinnamon tan color, the sapwood can be very yellow, often with a light grayish hue. However, the key clue is scent. If it's sassafras and you can't coax out even the slightest spicy odor, you need a new nose.

   There are a couple of other possible domestic candidates among the locusts (Acacia side of the legume family) that have yellow pigmentation, but they are very dense. The most common being black locust. Also, the wood Dennis has suggested; yellow wood is in this group of legumes...So, we're still just guessing. 

   Edited 12/17/2003 7:24:39 AM ET by Jon Arno

4. 
   Dale | Dec 17, 2003 07:25pm | #35

   Bert,

   I've been watching this thread and I don't have a clue but a guess and I will keep that to myself at this point. But, if you could again try an ever closer shot of the end grain cut as smooth as possible, Wood Tech use a razer blade to cut the end grain with and then wetting the surface is often a great help.  So for sure wet the wood prior to the next shot if you would......Dale

5. 
   Sphere | Dec 18, 2003 12:49am | #36

    Hows about Sycamore..?  My guess.

6. 
   jonsherryl | Dec 17, 2003 03:18pm | #34

   Adam, just as an afterthought...there's another wood floating around in the international trade that goes by the name of yellowheart or sometimes pau amarello...or pequia setim. But it's not a peroba (Aspidosperma) or a canarywood (Centrolobium). It's a member of the citrus family (Rutaceae) native to the lower Amazon region in extreme eastern Brazil.  It's botanical name is Euxylophora paraensis.

   I suppose we should also throw it into the hat as a possible candidate for Bert's mystery wood...but judging from his latest photos, he's dealing with a somewhat coarser, more ring-porous, temperate wood. Yellowheart has a high luster and moderately fine texture (not quite as fine as maple, though) and it's subtle figure would seem to agree with the flatsawn surface in some of Bert's photos, but Euxylophora is downright Equatorial in origin...What now mystifies me is Bert's latest end grain shot. Were it not for the absence of dominant rays, that end grain almost looks like very slow grown (north temperate) white oak (which, of course, is not at all likely...nor is it ash...at least not one of our native species...the flatsawn grain is too tight for either of these woods.)   

7. 
   parrothead | Dec 18, 2003 05:35pm | #39

   Jon,  I am taking a guess here, but I have some ANIEGRE that looks very similiar to this. Is this as a possibility?We are the people our parents warned us about. J. Buffett

8. 
   jonsherryl | Dec 18, 2003 07:54pm | #42

   Mike, anegre is another possibility. It's an African timber with a yellowish (sometimes tan) heartwood. The quick clue here would again be the scent. Although this wood is a hardwood (angiosperm) and belongs to the Sapotaceae family, it has a cedar-like odor. It also has a high luster and a sort of oily feel...and it's a relatively soft wood, usually not much denser than yellow poplar.

   I think what we really need is some feedback from Bert on what the end grain of his mystery wood looks like under 10X magnification. If those bands in that one end grain photo prove to be annual rings and it is a ring-porous wood, we could narrow the options in a hurry.

3. 
   BertJ | Dec 17, 2003 12:09am | #20

   Found several more prospects, Koto and pau amarello. See examples.

   BJ

   
1. 
   Jimma | Dec 17, 2003 12:28am | #21

   Nice color and grain, but I've never seen either at Woodcraft where I attend Sunday service weekly.

2. 
   jonsherryl | Dec 17, 2003 04:13am | #27

   Bert, it's doubtful that your mystery wood is koto. This is an African timber cut from several species in the genus Pterygota. This genus belongs to the cocoa family; Sterculiaceae, named after the Latin word for dung...because the foliage of species in this family typically has a manuer-like odor. When freshly cut, koto has a distinct and unpleasant scent that I'm sure you wouldn't have missed.

   The name  amarello (also amarillo) is, unfortunately, a very confusing common name. It is often used for woods in the canarywood genus; Centrolobium. This genus is in the legume family (Leguminosae) and some of its woods have a rather high luster and they are also sometimes sold as a "poorman's satinwood." The genus produces some very attractively striped figures, including brown, orange and even purple streaks...but a lot of it is just plain bright yellow. There is also another Brazilian wood that sometimes goes by the name of pau amarello. Its botanical name is Plathymenia reticulata. This is another legume genus, but it is rather rare and contains only the one species. If your wood is amarello, it is most likely one of the Centrolobium (canarywood) species...These canarywoods are often curly, but birds-eye is not a common figure in this genus. At least, I've never seen it.

   Unless your mystery wood has an unusually high luster, I wouldn't give up too quickly on its just being a rather bright example of bigleaf maple, given what Jim posted earlier. Look very closely at the flatsawn (tangential) surface. Does the wood have fine amber colored ray flecks that would give it a beech-like figure, if they were much larger in size?...and are there annual rings that also appear to be demarcated by a slight amber colored line? These are maple characteristics that you wouldn't find in any of the exotics that have been mentioned so far.

   Edited 12/16/2003 8:19:33 PM ET by Jon Arno

   Edited 12/16/2003 8:30:53 PM ET by Jon Arno

2. 
   beck4000 | Dec 16, 2003 04:52pm | #2

   hard to tell with a Photgrapg,But to me it looks Like YELLOW PINE..

   But I am not sure...It is close to Hardwood,Yellow Pine..

   I am just a Woodworker,But I know Nothing..
3. 
   Sphere | Dec 16, 2003 05:35pm | #3

   Too much flash..my guess Avoidire?

4. 
   RANGERP75R | Dec 16, 2003 05:56pm | #5

   Bert

      I will leave it up to Jon to decide what it is. I can tell you what it ain't though, and that's yellow pine. I am in the middle of yellow pine country (Atlanta) and I would bet my life's saving (which you could put in a Dixie cup and have room left over, ha.. ha...) it's not yellow pine. I wish yellow pine looked like that. he...

      Nice boxes, BTW.

   sarge..jt

   Proud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   BertJ | Dec 16, 2003 06:23pm | #6

   Thanks, Sarge. You're right, I'm sure--this ain't yellow pine! I also looked up Satinwood, but the photo I saw shows an orangish cast, and the wood I have is not orange at all.

   BJ

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Dec 16, 2003 06:59pm | #7

   Bert

      Just keep describing it. I haven't seen many that Jon Arno hasn't pegged correctly yet. Enough info and he'll hit pay-dirt!

   Regards...

   sarge..jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

5. 
   UncleDunc | Dec 16, 2003 07:07pm | #9

   Maybe the pictures aren't being rendered correctly on my monitor, but from what I can see, they don't match your description of SO YELLOW. It looks like figured maple to me, just yellower than usual.

   I got a little chunk of bocote that was distinctly yellow out of a scrap bin. I could never have identified it from the color, but the figure matched several different pictures I found.

1. 
   BertJ | Dec 16, 2003 07:22pm | #10

   I ran these photos through PhotoShop and did some color correction work. I think the attached photos depict the color more accurately.

   BJ

   
1. 
   UncleDunc | Dec 16, 2003 07:28pm | #11

   That was very thoughtful of you. Unfortunately, I can't cope with .BMP files.

2. 
   forestgirl | Dec 16, 2003 07:41pm | #12

   Bert, great idea to do a little editing.  However, the file size is toooooo big (700+ kb).  Can you convert to .jpg and get the file sizes comparable to those of the original photos?forestgirl Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)  you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)

3. 
   RANGERP75R | Dec 16, 2003 08:16pm | #14

   Bert

      I can't get the pics on my computer either. But I have to lean with those that think figured maple. That grain is what leads me there. I have used soft maple that turns about that color when natural Watco is applied. Not releveant to this, but just pops up in my mind when I saw the original pics.

   sarge..jt Proud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

2. 
   Ardito | Dec 16, 2003 08:07pm | #13

   I agree with it looks like figured maple. 

   darkmagneto

6. 
   Jimma | Dec 16, 2003 08:36pm | #15

   Bert -- Woodcraft sells dimensioned pieces of something they call "yellow heart". Don't know the Latin name, but it's probably in their catalog. I've used it in multicolor glue-ups. It's very nice as an accent wood. It's bit pricey. Try using it along with red heart or padauk for an interesting pattern.

1. 
   BertJ | Dec 16, 2003 09:50pm | #16

   Thanks everybody for your thoughtful comments. Sorry about the BMP files--I didn't even notice. Here they are in JPEG format.

   After closer inspection, I think it might be maple after all. The wood has definite figure in a cross light situation, along with flecks or short rays in spots. It has an irridescent quality with a remarkable sheen in the right light.

   BJ

   
7. 
   emerckx | Dec 17, 2003 02:43am | #24

   Bert,

   Like Sarge, I'm in yellow pine country (north fla). It's not yellow pine. I have some birch that looks just like your pics. I've heard birch referred to as "yellow birch", but neither what I have nor your pictures look all that yellow to me.

   Mike

8. 
   migraine | Dec 17, 2003 02:59am | #25

   Personally, I think that it's a piece of Finish birch plywood, Russian ply or what every you want to call this stuff.   Looks like rotory grain

1. 
   BertJ | Dec 17, 2003 03:04am | #26

   Nope, not ply. I resawed this from a 4/4 piece of wood.

   Bert

9. 
   DennisS | Dec 17, 2003 08:06am | #31

   Bert -

   There very definitely is a tree called Yellowwood. Jon (Arno) can tell you a lot more about it than I can, for sure. But - a while back I landed a small segment of a log of prize Yellowwood tree here in WA state. It had to come out for some development (arghhhhh). The person that was doing the clearing knew I was interested in turning variuos kinds of wood so gave me that sample.

   Curious about what it was, I did a web search on yellowwood and found:

   It grows mostly in the inland areas of the eastern US. Like Kentucky/Tennessee and a little further south. It's not commercially viable since it doesn't grow large or fast, as I recall. It's used frequently as an ornamental in landscaping. We have a rather lovely specimen growing on the University of WA campus, I found out.

   One of the principal uses for the wood used to be in making dye for clothing. I steeped some of the shavings in water for a few days and sure 'nuff - got some really deep beautiful yellow dye.

   I made a natural edge bowl out of the piece I got. Still have it around. It turns well, don't know about other types of woodworking since I didn't have enough to go beyond that one small piece. It sanded quite well and took a nice wax finish with a low luster. It might polish up better but this was early in my turning experience and I don't think I took the finishing to it's highest level. It would indeed be a striking complement to something like walnut.

   How big are the pieces you got or saw?

   ...........

   Dennis in Bellevue WA

   [email protected]

10. 
    TonLoc | Dec 18, 2003 06:56pm | #40

    Have you considered butternut?  It sounds like that is what you are dealing with. It is a very yellow wood that seems sort of like maple and/or walnut.

11. 
    gnarlyone | Dec 19, 2003 06:41pm | #43

    One of the woods that I use is Yellow Cedar. It is a beatiful yellow color but is much softer than maple. I agree with another post that big leaf maple can get that yellow color when finished with a danish oil. That would be my best guess.

12. 
    Pkb0604 | Aug 04, 2014 09:46am | #44

    longhi

    This yellow wood is part of the Congo Precious woods, it is called Longhi, and I work with this wood .

    when the wood is wet and freshly sawn, it will usually have a pinkish grey color but as it dries it turns to a iridescent yellow which has an almost 3D type of reflection with the light...

13. 
    Pkb0604 | Aug 04, 2014 09:46am | #45

    longhi

    This yellow wood is part of the Congo Precious woods, it is called Longhi, and I work with this wood .

    when the wood is wet and freshly sawn, it will usually have a pinkish grey color but as it dries it turns to a iridescent yellow which has an almost 3D type of reflection with the light...