What is your level of interest in bending wood?
- I have tried steam bending
- I have tried lamination bending
- I have tried hot-iron building
- I have tried a variety of bending techniques
- I have never made a project with bent-wood curves
You will not be able to change your vote.
Replies
this poll seems more like "what is your experience" not "what is your level of interest"
I've never done it, but find it interesting...
I've never done it, either, but intend to try laminate bending for the arms of my next project, a mid-century Modernst version of a Morris chair. Wish me luck!First, count your fingers . . .
Made a Hall Table for my sister inlaw. There is times that you say I can do that and you do it for them. Well made the Table out of cherry. Had to turn the legs on the lathe for my first time at turning. Went out and bought west systems epoxy. Had to make a form out of partical board. It had about a 9" radius on the table ends. Used 1/16 cherry venner. It was a project with a lot of new things that I've never done before. Took my time and did it . Turned out amazing.
I was watching a show on how they make steinway pianos last night - now that's some serious lamination!
Ruth,
Hey! Tell me more, I'm interested but that's not what was asked..
Very interested. Publish the right article and the big propane turkey frying rig could get converted to a steam bending boiler on the spot.
I've never done it but I am very interested in learning how. TC
Add my voice to those who say the poll questions don't reflect the heading. I am very interested in bending wood, would love to see a thorough article on the subject, but have not tried it yet.
What are these polls for, anyway?
"What are these polls for, anyway?"I suspect they use them for guiding content in either the mag or books (or both).I "voted" "interested in a variety of methods." Fact is I have used a variety of methods as I deemed appropriate for the task and wood used. But even though I have done it many times, I have an interest in reading and seeing other techniques.Strikes me FWW has had some good articles on bending in the past. I'll have to do a search (easier than looking through the mile long stack).Take care, Mike
Forestgirl. These polls are developed by the editorial staff. Sometimes they are designed to seek out new topics to cover in the magazine/Web site. Sometimes they are just for fun. Mainly, we create a new poll once a month to be featured in our newsletter.
If you don't like the answers provided, just post to the thread. A written response goes a long way, and we read them all.
Thanks, Matt
To state the obvious, that I habitually do, bent wood has some tremendous advantages in strength because the grain runs parallel with the length. Therefore, you can incorporate curves into your designs that would not be possible with saw shaped pieces. I would consider incorporating bent wood into some future project if I was shown a way to do it with equipment that was cheap and small. I haven't bent any wood before because I didn't have the equipment that is usually associated with the process, a big gas burner, a sealed kettle and a long, watertight box. I have always felt that the infrequent use I would put it to, wouldn't justify the loss of money from my wallet or the loss of space from my shop. That turkey fryer idea is really ingenious, but I don't have a turkey fryer. However, it might be possible for me to set a kettle on one of the burners of my propane BBQ. That still doesn't get me a cheap 12" x 12" x 8 foot long watertight box that folds for storage though! Show me how to get that magic steam box and I may become a bentwood buff.
Although, it is not an exact equivalent, I think forged metal can be incorporated into a piece of furniture in ways that approximate bent wood. Thonet chairs are similar to the all steel chairs with the curlicues that we have all seen in old fashioned icecream parlors. Many pieces of traditional Spanish furniture have forged steel brackets that are highly decorative. A forge allows you to make custom hardware, and tool blades. I have a small forge and think it is worth the price, if you can get second hand equipment or improvise it for cheap. The trick, as in all tool acquisition processes, is to avoid thinking that you need the best and prettiest tools on the planet. I think FWW has ran a few articles on forge work in the past. Well, just a thought.
Regards,
Randy
Edited 7/15/2007 4:22 pm ET by prosopis
I've used a gas barbecue for heat, a milking machine receptacle for a boiler, and a length of 4" pvc pipe for a steam chamber. It works. If I needed it frequently I might go for a more permanent set-up.
Tom
Hey, Tom,
Sounds simple and economical for those occasional jobs. Thanks.
What kind of bending work have you done?
Randy
I've done only parts for Windsor chairs,
Experienced - No;
Reading about methods and watching example videos - Yes;
Looking forward to articles in the future - Yes;
Planning on applying techniques to future projects - Yes;
Confused by Poll Questions --- Ahh.... Yes!
What is your level of interest in bending wood?
I'm interested.
As far as the poll, I haven't tried it yet. But that doesn't mean I'm not interested.
Ruth,
I am about to do a lot of bending.. I have 140 feet of my roof that needs to be covered with hand split cedar shakes because of the size of the radius at the rafter tail I'll need to bend about 560 feet of shakes to one radius and about 500 feet to an even tighter radius. (the dormers and tower have a radius twice as tight as the edge of the roof)
Now I know that Fine Home Building is the site most would post on but since I am using mostly hardwood to build my double timberframe I feel a much closer kinship over here than I do over there.
I agree that the heading does not reflect the voting choices. If you are asking whether I would be interested in articles about wood bending, and what my experience level is...
my answer is I have no experience bending wood, but would be very interested in articles detailing the process.
I have plans to construct a steam chamber and make bent-wood projects. I'm not sure if there is a reason for your survey, but perhaps that option should be included as well.
Greg
•••••••
Exo 35:30-35
While I have never made a project, that does not mean I am not interested. Actuall I tend to lean to things I have never done.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
I agree, the post shall be what is your experience, not "what is your level of interest...?"
I bought the book from Finewoodworking and it is just a compilation of several articles, out of which only 2 or 3 actually are usefull to me.
I'm building a steam bending chamber with 10" PVC. I'll give it a try soon. I also made a design of a table for the lobby of my house to be build with lamination. We'll see, too many projects but too little time!!!!
I'll post pics when I have them....!
See ya'
Yabadabadoooo!
My problem seems to be trying to keep wood straight.
Jack
My level is of interest is high and my experience level is quite high as well. My bending experience started at the Windsor Institute in the two classes I took. I have been bending wood for about five years on and off.
I become frustrated at times when the bending fails. I got free oak from my daughter's new homesite and had almost 100% failures. That was a painful experience as it wasted all the stock preparation work and time that was considerable. Turns out the oak was chesnut oak and learned the hard way it's a poor bending oak. Never knew that and I have a book on wood steam bending. Preparation for the bend is critical to achieve success as you don't have much time if you get into trouble.
Haven't done complex bending for making continuous-arm Windsor chair arms. Would like an article on that technique. I use a turkey frier but would like to see more data on feed pipe diameters up from the steamer into the steam chamber and the length of steaming time studies. I have had experniences where I don't think the entire arm or bow has been saturated with the steam. I plan to go from the radiator hose to a 4" direct PVC pipe connection from boiler to steam chamber. I used 40 guage PVC. I have added about 6- #6 copper grounging wires through the midsection as a noncorrosive shelf keeping the wood up into the steam flow and out of the condensate. The ends protruding from the steaming chamber are taped round the outside with heat tape to seal the ends from leaking.
Herb
Steam and bending. If you've been to the WI with MD you got the quick initiation and back to the shop. The steaming system Mike uses is really tough to beat. The 5 gallon can, the propane tank, PVC schedule 40 pipe, and a set of horses to hold the box are all you need. The pvc pipe unglued offers unlimited options. I find I use the 6 foot long box most often. I put the steam entry point in the middle and use a car radiator hose to come off the can to the pipe. I have bent every kind of windsor chair part in this cheaply built unit and its still going. I only steam for about 30 minutes in the pipe and its ready. I always anticipate a tear so I throw a couple extras in the pipe to steam. You mentioned the continuous arm?? that's the trickiest no doubt. For additional ideas on steaming and windsors, see http://www.windsorchairresources.com it is the best place to share and find information... almost as good as Knots...Naaaaaaaaa. Good luck.
I've steam bent air-dried pecan for rocking chairs. I made six last year...one for my wife and each of my daughters.
Here's a few hard-learned tips for rockers:
Bend a piece big enough to cut both rockers from BEFORE cutting the rockers. For instance, if your rocker cross section is to be 1"wide x 1.25" high, bend a blank at least 2.25" wide and rip them apart after the blank is cooled on the bending form. That way, both rockers will have the same contour.
Whatever your final length is to be, make sure your blank is at least a foot longer. You'll need the additional length for leverage and clamping.
DON'T use spalted wood. If it doesn't fail while you're bending, it will while it's cooling.
It was interesting. I ended up with beautiful heirloom quality furniture and some of the prettiest firewood I've ever seen. ;)
Sorry Denmark that I didn't reply. I read your note sometime ago and appreciate the feedback. I need to get the propane tank refilled and will start experimenting again real soon. Herb
There are 2 theories to arguing with a woman...neither works. ...... Will Rogers
Herb, The size of the supply from the boiler to the chamber is not important. I have been using about six feet of 1/4" copper tubing covered with foam pipe insulation to keep from loosing heat to the air through the outside of the pipe since copper is such a good conductor. A poor conductor like stainless steel would be better, except for being so rigid.I plan to change it to auto heater-hose though, because it would be a little easier to set it up if there was more flexibility in that link. If you are not satisfied that the wood isn't getting saturated, it may mean that you need to insulate the outside of the chamber or something. I use a food thermometer to check the temperature in the far end of my chambers so I can monitor the heat. Sometimes it only takes a small tweak of something like stopping a leak, or improving the insulation to get the heat up a few more degrees which can make all of the difference. What you want to do is to get the wood over about 110º all of the way through to the middle of the wood before you can expect to get a successful bend. You can produce steam with a small single burner, and a beaker, but you need to match the BTU"s of the heat source to the size of the chamber and amount of wood in it to bring a given volume of wood up to the desired temperature. Even with a big pot, and big hot flame, if there is a big load of thick wet wood in the chamber, it will take a while to get the heat up. I don't start counting my time; One hour per inch: until the inside temp reaches close to 200º.I think you should forget your thoughts for a 4" connection to the boiler. If you are not getting enough steam, it may because you have it too tight on the ends of the chamber, and not tight enough along this supply link. I think I could set up a system using only 1/8? tubing. The key is to just not let any of the energy escape. It would just have to flow much faster through a smaller supply line to equal a slower flow through a larger line. Beyond this, the most important thing is to use end constraints, and have them set before the wood goes into the chamber. I have bent some Post Oak with a slope in the grain through the board as much as 1 / 6, with very little failure on 3/4" thickness around about 12" R through 30º. I didn't expect it to work, but I only had about 10% failure for something that I needed, but didn't have the best lumber on hand for. The structural integrity wasn't an issue. I just thought, I have the set-up going, and can work it in, why not give it a try. I don't know about taping the ends. I wouldn't. I might pin them some way, and I would make sure that there was a hole in the bottom of the far end, or ends if it is fed into the middle. If none of this helps steer you onto the track, it would help if you posted some photos to show what you are doing. This is a very tricky process, and it only take one small mistake, and as you know all of your efforts are down the tube. Until we learn what those mistakes are, we are likely to keep making them. While someone else may be able to spot the mistake right off.
Thanks Steve, You raise several excellent points. I won't change to the 4" feed till I've made some of your suggestions. I still have the turkey fryer thermometer and dah, never thought to use it. I'll also use some foam insultation around the if necessary after checking out the temps. Both ends are tight since I use the PVC screw caps with male & female threads into the 4" fitting. I have weap holes at both ends on the underside to allow condensate to drip out. I do get steam coming from these holes. But I thought I needed to allow some steam to escape for pressure releif. AT the same time it gave me a visual indication that the steam was reaching the far end of the pipe.
I don't put the wood in till I see steam beginning to escape from the front end where I load the wood. Usually I don't overlaod the steamer chamber with too many pieces. The most I've added is four but typically it's 1 or 2 at a time. I leave the wood in for about 45 min. which is what I've read in several sources as a good steaming time. Herb
You are right you do need to release some of the pressure from the chamber or it will blow your end caps off. All so you may want to use schedule #80 PVC it won't warp and sag like the 40 dose.I have been steaming chair parts for years and find ash and white oak to bend the best.
You're right about schedule 80. I went the quick and easy way of using 40 since it's so easy to obtain. I support it at 3-points so the sag isn't a big deal.
The last three weeks I've been behind the computer doing research on two 18th c Phial. Quaker families who purchased Windsor chairs and passed them along down their family lines. I have been seriously studying handiword details of several chairmakers and have developed a model using my measurements to verify whether an unbranded chair was made by a known chairmaker, like Joseph Henzey. Well on the 'passed down through a family line chair' gives me an opportunity once I know that family the possibility of finding an old receipt that points to or implicates who the chairmaker was. Both of these chairs were unbranded. At the moment I'm into reseaching one of the very successful Quaker families, the Livezey's, who had a Mill along Phila.'s Wissachickon Creek. So it'll be a little while longer till I get back out into the shop to experiment again with bending. There's several articles on chairs and possibly a couple of books in the works about Windsor chairs. I have been findng sister and brother unbranded chairs of the same style made by the same chairmaker. That's neat as I can establish a chronological order to the best time sequence they were made and observe the skill development of these unknown chairmakers. That's another article. My work will take what Nancy Evans and Charlie Santore did in the 70s and go one or two levels deeper.
Herb
You sound like you're into windsors pretty deep. Don't know if you've been there but.. get on the web and visit Windsorchairresources.com you'll find information from builders who have been bending and working windsors for a long time. Additionally, you can ask just about any question and you'll get an answer. Its a great site. I would respectfully direct you to the sites of Dave Sawyer, Curtis Buchanan and Peter Galbert. I am rather picky about turnings and seat carving after building more than 100 chairs and their stuff is top notch. By the way... none of them are "school trained" Take a look.
Dan
Dan, great suggestion. I know about that site and have visited it many times. Can't say I've looked at the sites you mentioned so let me do that. Have a great day. Herb
I think the way you are setting up these polls stinks. Only being able to check one box limits getting a good answer.
Wouldn't you like to know whether someone has tried and failed, or did they succeed.
I would have checked the first three if that had been an option. I have also used grown crooks for some curved parts.
I have tried some laminate bending with great success. I would like to have more information about setting up a steam bending system or two. One for the occasional whim and another that would serve a production run.
Hey, Ruth,
I was looking for an an answer that indicates I'm interested, but have never tried bending. To me, that may be different than "I've never tried (and never will)." The recent article on bending was interesting to me, and made sense. I hope to give it all a try one day.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled