I just put coat #5 of polyurethane cut 50/50 with turpentine on a red cedar jewelry box. I’ve read in posts about sanding with 400-600 and buffing with paste wax as a final step. How about rubbing with 0000 steel wool and buffing with paste wax? What kind of paste wax is good. Thought about “Mother’s carnuba” it really makes my Harley shine. Should I just leave it alone after 5 coats? Any advice will be appreciated. It is a gift for the music minister at my church. Thanks alot. Rick W.
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I have always used Trewax. Can be found at most hardware stores.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy
PlaneWood
Some car waxes have an abrasive which you don't want. You can use uncolured shoepolish which is just carnuba. Bolling Alleywax or Johnson's pastewax is fine also. Should you ever use darker woods,there are darkly tinted waxes that work better on walnut as the others leave a whitish film.
Since wax is the main topic here, I'm going to piggy-back a question onto this. In the past, I've used mostly Briwax or Minwax. The other day, I found a can of Johnson's Wax languishing in a drawer, so I pulled it out to wax an auxilliary fence I'd just finished. It seemed to have a much "wetter" consistency than either the Briwax or the Minwax. Didn't seem to set up as well as those do either. Was this just an odd can, or what?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Nope, Johnsons is that way. When I was in the Navy we used to light it on fire in the can to burn off some of the oils. We would then pour the heated liquid wax on the floor and immediately buff it out to a brilliant shine. One of the reasons I like the Johnsons is because of the oils that penetrate into woods and metals. Steve - in Northern California
One of the reasons I like the Johnsons is because of the oils that penetrate into woods and metals.
If the wood has a finish on it I don't think anything is going to penetrate it--nor metal. Wax is a surface treatment used to enhance the "glow" of a finish and perhaps for some protection--dust does not stick as much to a slick finish. It can be used as a "finish" on raw wood with a good look about it with little protective properties (white rings from water, etc.). Wood treatment products that promise to "feed the finish", or replace the oil, etc. are just marketing what we wish could happen. If there is a finish on the wood it is not going to be "fed". It is sealed.
An important thing about waxing is to be sure the finish is cured (no odor) or the wax may soften and smear the finish. This is particularly possible with Briwax which contains toluene. It can really ruin a finish.Gretchen
My response was to Forest_Girls question. I do believe that on bare woods and metal surfaces such as cast iron it does have certain penetrative qualities. Maybe the correct word is bonding rather than penetrative. Still, though, bonding would still seem to require some degree of penetration. Just a guess here but wouldn't it just peal off if it didn't.
Steve - in Northern California
Edited 6/21/2002 1:12:42 PM ET by Steve Schefer
Steve, Gretchen50,
>I do believe that on bare woods and metal surfaces such as cast iron it does have certain >penetrative qualities. Maybe the correct word is bonding rather than penetrative. Still, >though, bonding would still seem to require some degree of penetration. Just a guess here >but wouldn't it just peal off if it didn't.
I'd suggest you're both right, other than maybe terminology. Being less viscous than the wax, the oils will more easily fill up surface abrasions in wood or metal. I believe you mentioned the Navy, and this applies to floors having heavy traffic. So, the oil content will make it look pretty much faster. It won't last as long as only the wax, but for heavy traffic the wax won't last much longer, anyhow. So in this sense, it better penetrates the surface abrasions.
As for bonding, it can depend on penetration, or only surface abrasions (e.g. instructions to lightly sand before applying the next coat of xxx), or it can be a chemical or molecular bond (e.g. yellow glue on bare wood), or any combination of the above.
Gerry
Had a real bad experience with Briwax over fresh Enduro Poly and no problems at all over fresh nitrocellulous lacquer. The can says beware as it may harm some lacquer finishes. Go figure. Never had a problem with Mother's or Johnson's. The next time I need a dark wax, I'll use Liberon 'cause it never gave me any trouble either, it just stinks like concentrated shoe polish. Tried Howards but it's tough to rub out. I used to use Harley's pure carnuba car wax, but it's really hard to buff.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne
While poly is supposed to be impervious to most typical solvents, it pays to never assume, especially when you don't know for sure what's in the wax. Just for fun, put a few drops of fondue fuel on some cured poly. The stuff's supposed to be only alcohol, and poly's supposed to be impervious to alcohol, but it worked as a great stripper:-)
Gerry
I knew Briwax had something in it that the other waxes didn't, but didn't know it was Toluene. The lady who worked for us when we sold furniture, and who is pretty allergic to solvents and such, absolutely could not use Briwax, but Minwax was no problem. Now I know!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
It's toluene that is in Howard's Restor-a-Finish also. If you use either of these products in a closed area you will get an absolutely killer headache that tells you that brain cells are involved!!
I have heard/read you should use Briwax only on antique finishes--totally cured. I don't necessarily subscribe to that. It is also an excellent cleaner for old dirty furniture--sometimes all that is needed.Gretchen
Toluene can soften oil based finishes that have not fully cured. That is the reason for the recommendation not to use it on finishes less than a year old.
Toluene is an excellent degreaser/solvent and works very well to remove aged crud from old finishes. It's sold primarily as a restoration product and works very well in that application.
While on the subject of wax finishes, I had new kitchen cabinets installed about 6 months ago, it is maple with mitered corners and raised panels. It came stained and lacquered to a satin finish. The existing color is a tea color, almost like craft paper. I have been thinking about putting a grey/reddish grey tint on it with a kind of a wiping finish, then a liming finish with Mylands liming wax. I know the liming wax shouldn't be a problem but what kind of a wiping finish would you guys and gals suggest? The girl at the corner paint store (and she is very knowledgeable) told me that there is no such thing as a stain that can be applied to a lacquered finish. Well, of course the lacquer sealed the sruface and no stain will penetrate it. What about some kind of thinned down paint or gel stain that just sit on top of the lacquer, which would also produce a little of a streaky effect which is what is desired, then let dry and apply the liming wax. Would there be a compatibily or adhesion problem? Or can I tint a clear wax and use it as the tint then put the final coat of liming wax after? Are there any other alternatives? Any suggestion would be much appreciated.
Tom
I've tried tinted wax over stained woods with a shellac finish. The problem I ran into was in buffing out the wax most of the tint came off too. I used an oil based stain, which is not compatible with shellac. A suggestion for coating over the laquer; try a coat of shellac (which should adhear to the surface) tinted with a dye matching the desired color.
>> I used an oil based stain, which is not compatible with shellac
Did you mean you stained the wood with oil based stain then apply the shellac or did you mean you put the stain on after the shellac? Your problem with tinted wax sounds O.K. to me because I just want a hint of the tint, if most of the tinted wax comes off, that's quite O.K. In this case somebody had suggested wax on wax is not going to work because the liming wax I plan to apply after the tinted wax will just dissolve the tinted wax. Now if I try to tint shellac what kind of colorant would you suggest? Universal, artists', oil, analine?
Tom
ah, yes.... I stained the wood first, then shellaced the wood after, which was fine, except for some areas where I "burned" thru, when buffing the shellac finish between coats.
To fix it, I used a combination of the same stain mixed with butchers wax, and buffed it into the finish with 0000 steel wool. It worked out alright and in the end looked pretty darn good.
The whole thing was a problematic experience, and I did some reading on finishes, actually I think it's the same book that Howie's recomending, it has some great articles and resources for finishing products.
Now about tinting the shellac, I'm still learning about all this but I think you want an alcohol soluble powder dye. They come in all kinds of colors. I'm planning on using them for the first time on my next project.
The catalog I got is from Liberon / Star Wood Finish Supply, they have a lot of stuff. Their number is 1-800-245-5611 or 707-962-9480.
Also at: http://www.woodfinishsupply.com or http://www.liberonsupply.com
Hope the info helps you out, TOMCHARK.
I'll for sure check out thise sites you mentioned. Thanks for sharing your experience with me.
Tom
Coloring applied over a finish is called a "toner". It is frequently uses on commercial finishes to get the coloring they want and make it all consistant. You an buy toners in spray cans or you can make your own using lacquer and dye.
Get "Great Wood Finishes" by Jewett. It will give you more info on the subject.
On the subject of waxes. Colored waxes are generally intended for use on virgin wood or on restorations where the color tends to hide the scratches. They are also used on deep pored woods like oak that have a dark stain. A natural colored wax will fill deep pores with white dust and not be too pleasing. Using it on a cured, flat film finish will not add much in the way of color.
Thank you for suggesting the book by Jewett, I'll cetainly take a look at it and find out more. Somebody had suggested the toner (see thread 6680) but I really want a rob on look with the tint instead of an even layer of tint and the idea is to let the color stay in the crevices of the moulding. I wonder if you can rub the toner on the doors to achieve the desired effect, then apply the liming wax over it.
Tom
I've never done this so it is a "I wonder if" thought. I wonder if a polymer automotive polish would work better over polyurethane than wax. I have some "Liquid Crystal" that I use on my truck and it leaves a beautiful, wax free, shine and protects very well. I've been using it on vehicles since the early 90's and have never had a problem. It also contains no harsh abrasives but does have some penetrating chemicals and cleaners. I don't know what they are but they don't seem to bother automotive paint so I cant see how they would hurt polyurethane. Again, I havent tried this so your on you own if you do.
Steve - in Northern California
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