What method do you use most of the time to cut dovetails?
- Hand tools only
- Power tools only
- Combination of hand and power tools
- More tool/lumber storage
- Commercial dovetail router jig
- I don’t make dovetails
- Other (post your comments)
You will not be able to change your vote.
Replies
I thought everone used "More tool/lumber storage"?
Antzy,
Yes, but pants will light bulb.
eniP yaR
That is a mistake made by the person who created the poll. Apparently they didn't delete all the old questions when they created the new poll. Sorry for the confusion.
I wasn't confused. Amused maybe.
Todd
Good God
I voted for "More tool/lumber storage" because it makes about as much sense as all these polls.
Ruth, if it's a serious piece for my family or others it's by hand, If it's for me or just shop stuff it's via a "shop fox" type( insert any of 12+ brand names here) with the compression cam levers. A giant PITA to set up but it works well enough. I stepped into a deal for the jig and ALL of the aluminium templates of every style including the sliding DT as a tool shop blew them away. eg. < $10 a template. Other shop stuff gets box joints on the TS or these days the LV router table. Pat
Edited 10/2/2006 7:18 pm ET by PADDYDAHAT
since i am too arthritic to do them by hand but want to have their elegant look and durability, i do them with a jig.
if i were forced by some elitist to "do it by hand" i would have to give up a wonderful hobby. i have already given up enough because of this affliction. wood working is not going to be one too.
Please tell us Ruth. What is your favorite method?
...a bad day at the beach is better than a good day anywhere else... :)
I used to use hand tools until I tried the Gifkins Dovetail jig. Although simple to use, with virtually no setup, it is so accurate and allows variable spacing of pins. Also it's price (in Australia) kills the more widely known and advertised brands. Anyone contemplating the purchase of a jig should look at Roger's website - http://www.gifkins.com.au
It was reviewed by FWW and the review is in the Tool Guide section of this site.
Note: the overview of the review indicates that this jig does not handle variable spacing. In fact, it can accomodate this very easily - see the Gifkins site for more informatoin.
Michael Cameron-Smith
I will stir the pot
I have no idea why a person would handcut DT joints. In this modern age of commercial jigs and routers, I find few if any reasons to handcut DT.
Thank you,
Cheatah
1) Because I can2) it's often faster than setting up the jig, get the router, setting the router bit height, taking the test cuts...3) There's a certain satisfaction it in. (see #1)Jim
"There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other is that heat comes from the furnace." - Aldo Leopold
Jimmie--
I invoked the response, I thought I would. Here is my counter response---
1) Because I can--- Weak but OK
2) it's often faster than setting up the jig, get the router, setting the router bit height, taking the test cuts...---- Maybe if you do not know how to use a router, set a DT jig--- Also, once the jig is set, multiples can be turned at a significantly faster pace than any handcut DT.
3) There's a certain satisfaction it in. (see #1)--- no offense but so what---- there is an certain satisfaction in completing any woodworking project
Really --- I can not fathom why I would learn to cut DTs by hand when I can use a jig. I only need to know one way....at the end of the day NOBODY is going to askm "gee I wonder how those dovetails were cut?" It just is never going to happen.
I am not knocking the handcut method--- But I am fully supporting the jig/router method.
Good luck
Cheatah
Thank you,
Cheatah
There's one other item I should have noted. I work wood because it allows me to express my creativity and it allows to me to maintain a family tradition. I don't do it for a living or any kind of monetary return.I do use a Incra fence system for ganging large numbers of dovetails, especially if I'm doing cabinet work, but for most projects, I prefer cutting them by hand.I'm not purist, nor do I prosyltize any particular methodology as "right" or "proper". It works for me.Jim(BTW, only my mom still has permission to call me "Jimmy")
"There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other is that heat comes from the furnace." - Aldo Leopold
....at the end of the day NOBODY is going to askm "gee I wonder how those dovetails were cut?" It just is never going to happen.
Cheatah, don't kid yourself, they will ask. Even if they don't ask, they can still tell the difference. Sometimes I have been fooled by hand cut dovetails, but I have never been fooled by machine cut dovetails. They look... machined.
If you con't care to learn to cut dovetails by hand that's your business. What I don't understand is why you are getting all worked up because others choose to cut their joinery by hand.
By the way. There is a more appropriate forum if you are just looking to "stir the pot". Take it to the cafe.
Bob
King--
Maybe your wood working geek buddies will notice and ask. But believe my no one outside the woodworking community is going to give a rats arse about how the DTs were made.
It's important to you...and if yuo want to hand cut DT have at it Hoss.
As for me I am going to stick with my Leigh Jig and router.
Laters
Thank you,
Cheatah
As for me I am going to stick with my Leigh Jig and router.
I didn't notice anyone trying to convert you to hand-cutting.
Heck, even at that, a jig is slower than a commercial DT machine. Pumps out thousands per day. Most of the guys I knew in commercial shops laughed at all the fuss over jig systems, including the Leigh.
At the end of the day, we as the makers have only ourselves to please as to the methods we use. So who really cares what method another uses?
For myself, I voted for both hand and machine. How did I determine which I used? Client budget and scope of the job. For spec work, for clients with a higher budget and for my own work...by hand. Why? Well, mostly because I like to and there is no pressure on getting it out the door for X amount.
For budgets which introduce time contraints, I have used the WoodRat for the last few years. Prior, for lower budgeted work and for utilitarian work it was the PC Omnijig.
The lumber/storage option always is a good choice for a poll--it does make the most sense. Ought to be an option on all polls <g>...
Take care, Mike
Many times dovetails are used for their beauty, as well as their strength in structure. You cannot cut a houndstooth dovetail using a router, as an example. The shank of the bit would snap off.
When I cut dovetails, I usually use about an 1/8" opening at the point. It looks much better than the machined ones, in my opinion.
Jeff
Okay I'll bite.
1. Because they can't afford an expensive jig, router, and bits. A saw (even a nice one) and marking gauge are considerably cheaper.
2. Because they don't like the noise and dust created by the router method.
3. Because they enjoy using hand tools.
4. Because they enjoy communing with the spirit of historical woodworkers (following in their footsteps and imagining them looking over your shoulder as you work) who created fine quality joinery with nothing but handtools.
5. Because the minor variations and tool marks etc. that come from the hand method make a piece more interesting - give it a soul - as opposed to looking like it came from Ethan Allen or some other mass produced shot-out-the-butt of a CNC machine source.
I think that's enough for now.
I can't understand, in this day and age, why a person would want to spend their free time in their basement making furniture when they can buy the same piece from Ikea for 20% of the cost of wood.
That's a good one.
That concept is true for all thingsThank you,
Cheatah
People have asked me to make things because the other option was Ikea
Quality. In the process and the result. See Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance for a full investigation of quality.
Why would anyone hand cut dovetails?Why would anyone brew beer at home, or grow grapes and make their own wine?Why would anyone tell his wife that she is as beautiful as the day they met?Why would anyone decorate a room?Why would anyone make a quilt?Why would anyone watch a beautiful sunset?Why would anyone carve an eagle?Why would anyone write a poem, or paint a picture of a barn?Why would anyone climb a mountain, or run a marathon?Why would anyone go for a bike ride?Why would anyone hone their chisels on 8000 grit stones?The answer to all of these comes from the old "Kung Fu" series, when the Master said to the Apprentice:"Grasshopper: To learn, you must have an open mind. Seek the truth. Don't hide from the truth or ridicule it. When you know the answer to these questions, you will be ready to leave this place. Until then, go get your Keller jig, and cut a few thousand more dovetails."Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
96--
Almost funny.....
Thank you,
Cheatah
Cheatah,
Yesterday, I hand dovetailed the 54" long x 18" wide ends of a carcase to its 90" long top. Be kinda hard to get those pieces into the dt jigs I'm familiar with. He11, it's hard enough to walk around the thing.
Ray Pine
J:
You are right!Thank you,
Cheatah
Machines have limits, I don't.
I suppose there is a time and place to use a machine, and a time and place to hand cut. If I were doing a large kitchen, you better believe that I would get a jig. Making a box for my wife, all hand cut. Why? Because then they are my joints, not Leighs or Akeda or Porter Cable... Mine. There is real value in that.
I'm am an amateur woodworker, I do it for fun. It's fun to learn new skills. Real skills. It's fun to challenge myself.
why hand cut a DT joint? for the same reason we build furniture when we can go to ikea and buy what we need there (probably at a lower price). sure, a jig is going to be much faster if you have a lot to do, but most of us are in no hurry to get out of the shop. at least that's how i see it
I make them by hand because; I like the work, I don't like to use power if I don't have to(I run on solar/wind), I don't have a jig.
I am in the process of learning to hand cut dovetails but another reason for doing it by hand would be, this day in age the custom furniture maker need any selling point he can get to persuade customers to pay more than Art Van is charging. A custom furniture make can not compete with large manufactures on price, he has to go for quality (not to say that machines cannot produce a quality product) but there is a public conception that hand made means quality.
Brent
Another venue has appeared on my door step, an original LEIGH TD514 a 24" jig vintage 1980 something that was just given to me. I have posted a thread in "Joinery" looking for help from the Leigh users. Thanks, Pat
I bought a 514L when they first came out (about 1982, I think). It looked so complicated, I was new to woodworking, I was really intimidated, consequently, the jig stayed in the box until acouple of months ago. I got a 1258-R still in the box at an auction for $160. I used it to make the half-blind DT on a bunch of drawers, then decided I'd use the 514L for the TDT on the back. Once I got it tuned, it did a really nice job, and did it easily and consistently. It reminded me a lot of the Keller jig (which I also have) except that you can make the spacing variable.
pm, I called the Leigh folks (very nice and helpful) who sent the instructions gratis, They shipped the shim set internally to their eastern site (I expect close to my NY border) to avoid canada post $30 cost from the west coast due to the legnth of the shim package. I still have a fist full of questions.
1-I have their chart but where do the shims go? Behind the stock?
2-can I use any straight or dovetail bit or only theirs?
2a-are the porter cable router guides ok to use?
3- Is there any advantage to setting up the entire jig for 1/2" x 14 degree dt's as I will be doing a mess of shop cases and drawers for a while?
4- what changes in the set up for half blind?
5-do you know of any reviews of the 514 jig ?
thanks, Paddy
Paddy,
1- The shims go between the jig body and the aluminum bar that holds the stock (from outer to inner-black clamp bar, stock, aluminum bar, SHIMS, jig body)
2- Don't know. Mine came with 4 bits and I've never tried to use anyone elses with that jig.
2a- As far as I know, all Leigh jigs take the same size guide bushes- 1/4 inch shank bits are used with a 7/16th and 1/2 inch bits get a 5/8ths. If you're asking about the one that comes with the PC4212, no, it's too big.
3- I don't see any advantage to doing it, but I guess you could.
4- The D514L only makes through dts
5- The jig is 25 yrs old, so you'll probably have a hard time finding any reviews. Why don't you call Leigh back and ask them if they know where you could find some.
Good luck,
Pat
PM, thanks a bunch, I will call Leigh on the bits question. Through dts are fine as I will be doing mostly shop stuff for a while and I may get a chance to play with it on my next trip to the future digs in TN early Dec. The review would give me prehaps a false comfort just to see some words that go a little further than the instructions. Your response is now a part of my instructions. What the hay, I have a bunch of pine 1x6 cut offs to practice on that were going to start the coal stove any way-HA. All the best, Padraig
If I'm doing a couple of drwers in a fine piece, by hand. If it's 20 drawers ina set of kitchen cabinets, I'll use a router jig. Bcool.
Hi All,
It's very simple-- whatever will yield the appropriate results.
For small boxes, drawers for spice cabinets and, visible cabinet dovetails for small jewelry cabinets-- by hand.
For drawers for most casework, as well as large case pieces-- a Leigh 24" Dovetail jig. For the quality of wood I work (good, but not perfect) it's the best way to clamp something flat and get matching dovetails.
For structural joints for tables and benches, I use a table saw for cutting the tails, and handwork for cutting the pins/sockets.
I know some folks find it fun, but I just can't imagine doing the labor necessary to cut a large case piece's dovetails by hand. I've done it-- so I guess I can imagine it. But it seemed like such a chore.
The biggest challenge to the amateur/somewhat-serious furnituremaker is finding ways that enable the person to make multiple pieces in a given style so that we actually get a roomful of matching furniture. That's why, when I can, I use machine techniques. I'm so over having a roomful of furniture, each from a different phase that I was in when I made it.
Best,
Chuck
I'm in the "whatever works for you" camp. I am a hobbyist and cannot justify the purchase of an expensive dovetail jig. When I built my kitchen cabinet drawers, I used a cheap Sears jig for boring, constant spaced, half-blind dovetails. When I made my son & his wife a wedding present, I cut the sides of the tails & pins with a combination of the Veritas jig (basically a magnetic guide - very cool) and cleaned the waste with a bandsaw and then hand chisels. Beautiful results without spending a fortune for a jig and without needing a lot of practice. But if I had to make a living at it, or if I did a lot of work like this, I'd buy a jig, no question.
John L
Edited 10/30/2006 2:44 pm ET by johnlill
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