I’m sure it’s a question that is asked here every day, so forgive me for going over old ground.
I’ve read a couple of discussions about table saws here on Knots, and a lot of reviews on table saws that I found through Google. I thought I’d ask for help though.
I have a bacement that my wife and I want to turn into a workshop. It’s about 12’x28′ in size, (or will be when we remove a wall that is in the middle) and already had 220 wired in. there is a shelf / bench that runs the length of the wall, but does not have a wooden top.
My wife has worked with wood before (her parents have the nice tools.. $2000 table saw, $800 band saw… etc.) and make benches, stools..etc. But I am new with wood. I have done a couple things already, but just with a circular saw, and drill…nothing special.
In my reading I have seen people reccomending that the table saw, and router be the two areas that you don’t skimp on. So I don’t want to skimp, but we think that $450 is our limit for a saw now. (we have our eyes on a BOSCH router combo, with plunge adapter)
To answer some questions I think you might ask;
1: This will be a hobby. a weekend, and a couple hours during the week type of job
2: My goal is to be able make a chest or drawers in the next 6-8 months. Nothing fancy, but sturdy.
3: I want to be able to maintain the saw, learn how to align things, and keep it in good working order. (that being said, I don’t want it to require attention before every cut)
4: I doubt we will need to move it around. We will be remoddling our house though, so it would get some use for adding some ductwork…maybe.
Ok, what more should I tell everyone?
Oh, I’m cool getting something used. I wouldn’t mind it as long as it wasn’t being sold because it was broken.
Thanks for the help!
Bryan
-Not far from the Chattanooga Choo-Choo
Replies
cidion,
Try estate sales and yard / garage / moving sales for a nice used one. Insist on plugging it in and turning it on , just to make sure. Try the blade tilt and raising and lowering the blade .Make sure the fence locks and works right. My personal opinion since it sounds as though you will leave the ts in one place , look for a staionary machine as opposed to a table top model . A Craftsmen 10" would serve you well as would others. For $ 200 or less you should be able to find one . The router may be better to buy a new one of your choice. Porter cable is hard to beat in my book. You may consider a belt sander and a finish sander as well .
good luck to you dusty
Cidion,
There is NO substitute for quality. Time and again when I have tried to save money, in the end I was frustrated by the poor quality (read some of the Griz stories in this forum!) or lack of usability of lower end products.
Get yourself a Delta saw and you'll never have to worry. The quality, reliability, and availability of attachments for this wonderful saw make it an easy decision. Costs more; saves money.
VJK
Yep, but don't forget to look at this Grizzly thread.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Wow! your experiance and mine are directly opposite!
I bought a Delta and and I was never so unhappy! what a piece of junk! In the end I gave it away! that's right, I gave it to my nephew who's a machinist and didn't mind the endless adjusttments it demanded! I had it 14 months and wow all I can say is don't ever buy Delta (I had a worse experiance with the bench top planners (2) I bought but that's another thread)
I replaced it witha Grizzly and wow! The differance! The Delta couln't saw thru a 2 inch piece of hard maple, it'd burn and stall and made a lousy cut. sharpening the blade and replacing the blade made no change... In the end I gave away 4 blades and each had been sharpened at least twice by differant shops (I thought the problem was the blades..
An off the shelf DeWalt blades can slice thru anything on my Grizzly and leaves a clean cut free of burn marks!
The only thing I ever had that was worse was a Sears radial arm saw!
If you listen to me then you'll buy a bandsaw first, Yep a band saw. any cut you can do with a table saw you'll be able to do with a band saw plus a lot more others..
OK it takes a bit of skill to get really straight edges on a band saw. but don't worry.. the second piece of equipment you need to buy is a jointer.
Here's my thinking.. Nah! not just to straighten up crooked lines you cut on a band saw but because the number one expence you'll have is for materials..
Buy a a jointer and you can make that wood yourself..
Here are the numbers.
If I buy a cherry board at my woodworking store or home depot I would pay 8 or 9 dollars a bd. ft. and extra for the finely figured special stuff like burls or curly..(fiddleback)
yet I can go to the local sawmill and buy cherry for about $1.50 a bd.ft. dry it free and with a jointer I can make that wood flat and square for a couple of cents worth of electricity and my efforts!
The great part is I get wood long before anyone else sorts it out! burls and other wonderfull things are just a bonus. (I can't tell you the joy of seeing beautiful grain emerge from just another board. Every visit to a sawmill becomes a treasure hunt rather than a dreaded chance to make an expensive mistake!
So you buy enough wood to make a cherry ...whatever, say 30 bd.ft. pay 9 dollars a foot and you have $270 dollars in the wood.
or you buy a jointer and pay just 45 dollars! The money you saved will let you pay for the cost of the jointer and make a mistake rather than feel like a failure because you ruined $50.00 worth of wood rather than 8 dollars..
The real bargins are free woods! plane down a shipping pallet and find it's made out of a mahogany or black walnut. (trust me it happens!) turn an old board into a smooth chest and have little invested other than your time.. I buy thins from my sawmill that's wood that normally gets shredded because it's less than an inch thich.
(you see mother nature seldom makes trees exactly 12 inches thick so it she makes one 12 7/8ths that extra 7/8ths gets thrown away..
I buy as much as I can fit into my pickup truck for $20.00 this load it's black walnut the next it's cherry or maple.. I get about 650 to 800 bd.ft. of wood for $20.00
Thanks everyone for the advice. Now I want a jointer, planer, and bandsaw, and I haven't even made anything... =)I'm working with the book titled, "Getting Started in Woodworking" by Aimé Ontario Fraser.1-56158-610-2 is the ISBN if anyone is interested. It's pretty informative I think.
It's supposed to be teaching by making me build stuff. Smart for me.We got the saw and lathe in the temporary shop, and it seems to be ok. I'll try and post some photos later on for advice.In the book, the first project says I need the following;
(of the things I don't have)
Fine Toothed Backsaw
(2) Panel Clamps
(8) Bar Clamps - 2 of them need to be 12'' or longerI went to Home depot, Lowes, and Sears last night. and the Clamps I saw there were quite pricey. I understand the rule of, "buy the best you can afford, and love it forever" but I'm just guessing that I can get those clamps (jorgensen) somewhere else, pay shipping, and still have money left over for pizza and a movie.Any advice for lower cost clamps? Is light duty vs. medium duty an issue? It seems smaller clamps don't need to be heavy duty? Do I need to get the parallel clamps now?Thanks!
Good clamps are expensive, there's just no way around it. When you get to such models as the Jorgenson Cabinetmasters or Bessey K-Bodies, you're paying for not only strength, but for squareness under pressure.
What is it you're building for your first project?
Pipe clamps are relatively inexpensive and quite versatile, because you simply vary the length of the pipe to get different clamping lengths. They aren't necessarily square though, and have other disadvantages (heavy, can stain, heavy). If you put together some pipe clamps, consider getting Rockler's Sure-Foot pipe clamps. They are a definite improvement over the traditional Pony's.
Before I landed some Cabinetmasters at 1/2-price, I worked with Shop Fox bar clamps and was pleased with them.
A true panel clamp can be pretty expensive too, but you can build your own. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Jamie -I learned a trick from some millworkers on a job a while back. Rather than buy lots of different lengths of black iron pipe, just buy some pipe couplers to join shorter lenghts together to make a clamp thats .... well, as long as you need. I have lots of 2' and 3' lengths of pipe I just mix & match to make up whatever length needed. Although normally I get by with 3'-er's.The Rockler clamps are pretty nice, alright, but for the price of admission I made a coupla clamp holders out of 2x4's, drilled 1+" diam holes 3 or 4" apart in a length about 3' long, then ripped it in two. Holds the clamps above the work surface and in alignment as well. Not original - forget where I got the tip............
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
i like the idea of the cuplers, is say a ____ length (3 section) really flexy at the pipe joints?______________________________________________
--> measure once / scribble several lines / spend some time figuring out wich scribble / cut the wrong line / get mad
Sky -Yes, the couplers do introduce a little weakness in the overall scheme of things so they'll tend to flex more than a single length of pipe. But I'm learning, both from experience and reading that I've been using way more clamping pressure than is really needed. Using just enough pressure to bring the pieces together (and taking more care with the joinery rather than depending on clamp pressure to draw the joints shut!) is within the capabilities of multiple lengths of pipe with minimal flexing. Plus balancing the clamps on both sides of the piece helps more than anything, of course.This works well for me since the vast majority of my work doesn't require clamp lengths longer than three feet or so. I suspect, though that in a production cabinet shop where one routinely builds 7, 8 or longer pieces it would be more appropriate to have dedicated lenghts or pipe on hand.
...........
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Hi Dennis. I have to confess, I avoid using my pipe clamps whenever I can. My hands are much the worse for wear and just don't handle the weight of those pipes very well, so I tend to use the lighter bar clamps. I'm sure, though, when it comes time to glue up a bookcase or other larger carcass, long pipe clamps will be called to duty. Thanks for the tip.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
VJK,
When did you buy your Delta?
I believe times have changed.
I have seen more complaints about Delta here in this forum than any other brand, in contrast, there are a lot of good reprts here about Grizzly.
So far I made one Delta purchase, a bandsaw and it was a poor excuse for a machine. I returned it five days later.
There's alot of types of saws around now. For finewoodworking and longevity, you'll likely want no less than a full size contractor saw.
Consider taking a look at the Grizzly G0444. It's $495 plus $78 s/h if needed. It'll have the best fence and miter gauge of any saw near this price range, and a well proven traditional design. http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?itemnumber=g0444&
If you don't think you can scrounge the extra cash for the Griz, consider the new Craftsman 22104 made by Orion. Has a new "mini" cabinet style design that saves space, improves dust collection, has trunnions that are easy to align and stay aligned better than most saws. It'll go on sale in your price range pretty regularly. Retail is $499. Craftsman Club discount will save you 10% once a month....all you have to do is ask...no strings. http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid=00922104000
You could also keep you eyes peeled for a good used contractor saw. Your price range would buy you an awfully good used saw. Get you FIL to check one out with you if possible.
Thanks for you replys. I was planning on getting a saw within the next 6-8 weeks. Then I looked in the paper today, and a local wood worker was upgrading his shop.I got a craftsman belt driven table saw, with a VEGA fence, an additional wooden wing. that the previous owner added.He also had a belt driven lathe with bench, tools, and manual.They are both old. but we got them for $425. I'm hoping it was a decent deal, and I didn't get caught up in the purchase...I'll post photos later on, and get everyone's opinions.Bryan
Edited 1/6/2005 10:44 pm ET by cidion
WOW! Cidion, I think you just set a world record for going from "which saw" to "I'll post pictures soon." Yes, please, pictures and descriptions!
PS: Assuming everything's copacetic with the new tools, don't underestimate how lucky you were to find them quickly!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
yep, I was surprised too...I'm a do-research-for-6-weeks kinda guy, then I'll go get something that is good quality, and I know it, because I've had a photo of it on my computer for 4 weeks.So i'm a tad nervous about what I just got because of that.I was reading earlier today about the sawstop system, and how fast it works. (pretty amazing actually) and so I start telling this guy (Mike, whom I bought the saw from) all about it. How it can make you need a "band aid instead of a hand surgeon" and how it will save you from this and that.Well I'm about 3 minutes into my unsolicited sale of a product I have no ties with, and Mike says, "I could have used that a while ago" and holds up his right hand, missing his ring finger.My wife later said that I got white, and stuttered for a couple seconds...something I almost never do..Anyway, now I need some kind of sharpening system. I have about $75 budgeted, and not sure where to look, or what I might need. Any recommendations?I have a cheap set of 3 chisels now, and a decent hand plane. I was thinking that a wheel system (grinder) would be nice, but I don't know if I should learn honing on a block or not.any ideas? =)I promise I won't get anything in the next three days, I'll be in AZ and WA during that time, and won't have time to.. heh..bryan
We've got gorgeous weather for you over here on the Puget Sound, Bryan! Some possibility of snow on Thursday they say.
Sharpening....why not start out with the "scary sharp" sandpaper system? My New Year's resolution is to learn it by February so I can actually use the chisels I have, LOL. Inexpensive, effective, simple to put together. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
what is the scarey sharp sharping system the 2nd time i read it today any info about it would be appreciated
OoooooKay, I'll post a link to something similar to the original version, but be forewarned, there's a lot of what they call "stream of consciousness" here.
If you go almost to the end of the page, you see the "Condensed Version" -- might want to read that first!!
http://www.shavings.net/SCARY.HTM
Also, I know the method was written up in one of the mags, I'm pretty sure it was FWW, a long while back. If I find the ref, I'll post it.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Well, I found a couple of FWW refs for you. Issue 140 (Feb., 2000) has an article on sharpening that includes a section, with pictures, of using plate-glass and sandpaper.
Mike Dunbar wrote a short response to a letter in 1999. I guess I'm allowed to quote it here:
I have read of simply using water to hold the paper to the glass, but haven't tried it.
Hope this gives you some info to get started with. I read a couple of articles that compared various stones, diamond shapening and sandpaper. The microscopic pictures of the difference between sandpaper sharpened edges and others didn't convince me of any need to invest in a high-priced sharpening system. Of course, I don't have any turning tools, so my needs are relatively simple.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
thank you for the time and effort in your response i have the fww mag. and will be looking at it shortly.
The sandpaper on glass method for sharpening I think is not only easy and inexpensive it is also the best. You don't have to buy a $300 machine and additional widgets; your chisels and plane blades will always be flat and perpendicular-something none of the machines can deliver. And if you work it through 1200 grit and strop it on leather it'll be sharper than any fancy stone from Japan can match. (FWW points this out in one of the articles in the past couple of years on sharpening)
I keep my glass system in a flat drawer about chest height and and touch up my plane's blade in less than a minute.
Its an easy system to learn. I was lazy and started with the kit from Rockler. It costs more than a piece of gpass and the paper, but it got me off my butt. (The glass I use now are two old TV cabinet glass doors.) The higher sandpaper grits were hard to find until I started getting them at the local auto supply chain store.I now have to keep bandaids handy. Will
"I now have to keep bandaids handy." Hah! That's the best testimonial, right??
I have a drawer full of old planes, one new set of chisels, and several old chisels. I think I'll practice on the old chisels, and then work my way up. Once I learned about the sandpaper method, I couldn't see spending all that dough on gizmos, gadgets and expensive stones.
One quick question: One of my new chisels has a chip in the tip (operator error). Should I grind the whole tip down to 90* and then go to work?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
You can grind it square, but make sure you don't get it too hot. That would change the temper of the steel. Then, bevel it, get the angle you need and hone it.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
It's a small wooden box, aprox 6'x12'' er.. I mean 6"x12" . .. that would be one heckova box...more like a casket for a python. =)Here are a few photos of what I got.
Edited 1/10/2005 4:19 pm ET by cidion
Six feet, or six inches? You typed 6'x12" and I'm thinking maybe you meant 6"x12"
For a box that size, I wouldn't think you'd need panel clamps. You just need a way to keep the segments level with each other, and in a small piece like that there are other ways.
For the whole project, I would think you could get by with a few Quick-Change style bar clamps. You'll be accumulating these anyway, so not a bad place to start. Irwin makes the ones you see at Home Depot, etc. Standard cost for a 12" bar is around $22. You can get the Shop Fox version through the Grizzly catalog for $13.50, or $14.95 for the 18". Here's the catalog page with stock numbers. Note that the less expensive ones have a shorter "reach" with the jaws.
If you want to make a simple panel clamp, here's a link to one.
PS: The "thingie" is a clamping miter gauge. Take a look and see if it's made by Delta. I bought an old Craftsman saw a few years ago for $15. It came with a Delta clamping miter gauge, which I ended up selling for somewhere around $75! They ain't cheap.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I'm not sure what you mean by 90 degrees.
Keep the angle on the blade, but in most cases the cutting edge should be 90 degrees to the SIDE of the blade. You don't have to take the cutting edge down to a flat piece of metal-just even it out and get the nicks out. If its in really bad shape use a grinder-but don't heat up the blade. Keep a bowl of water handy and dunk it often. It should never get too hot for you to hold. Its not you getting burned that's the risk-its the hardness of the blade.Will
I too like the scary sharp method of putting the finishing touch on blades.. It seems to give the best finish that I can quickly hone onto chisels. I can't use the scary sharp method on gouges and other curved surface cutting tools for that I use my Tormax system. In addition I can't use the scary sharp method on long planner blades or jointer blades. (too difficult to maintain the correct angle) As for the blades of my Lie Nelsons and other hand planes, I'm actually afraid to mess with them,, I think I would rather struggle with somewhat less than perfect blades than risk screwing up the angles that were in them to begin with..
I agree with you on everything but the planes--why pay a premium price for a tool and then be afraid to sharpen it?
Mainly because I haven't had to yet.. In that they are still almost new and in the box and I won't really use them untill I get to the small finish stuff on my timberframe..
Oh sure, I took them out of the box and ran them across a couple of pieces of wood (just to play with them) I somehow just can't see hand planing any of those giant timbers with the Lie Nelsons.
I use a SawStop Cabinet Saw. Let me know if you have any questions about it or the technology. I can give you a whole lot more information than the thin FWW article. I am very impressed with the saw and really enjoy using it, but then I was using a Delta Contactors Saw before so there was plenty of room for improvement.
Dave
Hey Bryan, DMT makes good diamond sharpening stones. Get your tablesaw blades sharpend by a profesional or buy cheap ones and throw them away. Doc
Good job , I think for the type of use you described your purchase should satisfy your needs and do any task you will need.The Vega fence is probably a fair piece of change by itself. Sure a used Unisaw or the likes would be nice but wanting and needing are two different things.Honestly the stock you run thru the saw won't know the difference.
good luck dusty
Congrats on the new stuff....that Vega fence is a beaut! Have fun and be safe.
Hey Cidion
Without reading any of the additional messages, I am suggesting the SAW STOP saw. It is a new product that will save your finger/ fingers.
Check out the viedo on their web site. http://www.sawstop.com
Jody
Thanks C3,yeah, I've looked at that saw. I'd love one, but don't have that kind of money right now. I'm just a beginner.I ordered a safety kit today from Rockler.com, because it was on sale. I think that will help.It's amazing how many people you see without fingers (once you have a table saw).A few posts up, there are some photos of the saw that I got. Maybe in a year I'll upgrade. Once I get the hang of things, and move my shop into the next room. Right now it's storage for a friend.
Cidion (I hope you aren't getting tired of hearing from me), with regard to not losing fingers on the table saw, the key is knowing how it causes mischief and preventing opportunities for it to happen.
Take a look at the video on this Taunton page for an illustration of kickback. This particular example will also show how your hand might be pulled into the blade.
It's important to use the splitter to keep stock from contacting the back teeth of the blade. Your safety kit may include plastic pushers and such, which is fine, but you should build some specialized pusher that are safer in design. And featherboards that can be located further away from the blade than the ones included in the kit.
Personally, I have a particular problem with feeding technique when I'm cutting sheet goods. On thin stock, such as the 1/4" plywood I cut this morning, I take the extra precaution of clamping a board on my fenct that has a 5/16" gap between the bottom of the board and the table. The plywood slides underneath that, up against the fence, but cannot "climb" up the back of the blade if I screw up.
Do you have a good table saw book? It's a must-have.
OK, I'll leave you alone now. Dinnertime!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
No problem at all. You have over 6K posts, so I'm happy to hear your opinion.I don't have a table saw book yet. I'm hoping to get one that I saw reccomended here earlier.the kit I got was just a pusher, and two feather boards, nothing fancy. I was wondering if I could get a blade guard, and splitter that will fit on this saw?That kickback example was a good one. My wife likes that I have 10 fingers, massages and holding hands... stuff like that.What's for supper?-- BryanOh, I know it's just a few photos, but from the looks of those photos, do you think $425 for all that I got was an O.K. deal, or did I get taken?
Edited 1/10/2005 10:13 pm ET by cidion
Hah! Don't let my 6K posts fool you -- alot of 'em consist of "Cool" or other such profound statements. Besides, I type fast so I can afford to chat.
You can make a splitter that fits onto your table saw insert -- it is, IMHO, a critical piece of safety equipment. Let the pros be brave, working without one. Not me. Does your saw have the stock metal throat insert? You'll undoubtedly be making wooden ones to replace it, with zero-clearance around the blade, and that's when you can insert the shop-made splitter of your choice.
You can buy an overhead blade guard or build one. The nice thing about having one is that when you upgrade to a different saw, the OHBG will easily move to the new saw. I bought (actually, was given as an early Christmas present) the PSI blade guard. Go to this page, and you'll find one you can build yourself for considerably less that the $175 the PSI guard costs.
Here's a Google search that has some shop-made splitter hits in it. Make one of those, give you and your wife some piece of mind (My hubby seems to cross his fingers every time I say "I'll be out in the shop for awhile.")
re: your purchases, I'm not a great judge, being an ol' auction goer who tenanciously holds out for the best deals. That being said, if both the tools work (nice turning, BTW) and the turning tools are good ones, seems like you did OK. So often, those older tools have dead motors with them, and they're real expensive to replace. That $15 saw I got had a dead motor, and it was heavier than sin -- nobody else wanted to carry it out of the basement I guess. What'd I sell the saw for, hmmmmm, $135 I think. I picked up a lathe for $15, with no motor, and sold it for close to $100 plus shipping to the East Coast. Lathe wasn't near as nice as yours.
BTW, I browsed B&N tonight and saw the book you referenced. Nice approach. I mis-interpreted what she meant by "panel clamp." She was referring to clamps such as the Bessey K's or the Jorgie Cabinetmasters. When I hear "panel clamp" I think of a clamping system that also puts pressure on the faces of the boards to keep them level with each other.
I copped out on dinner -- ended up having a latte at Barnes and Noble's Starbucks, and a burrito at Taco Bell. Gotta live life to its fullest, LOL! Have fun with your new tools, keep posting! Feel free to drop me an email if the notion strikes you.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I'm not sure what the throat insert is... hold on.. let me google it. (I probably should know, but in my defence, 2 weeks ago I didn't know what a dado, dovetail, mortise, or jointer was) *time passes*Oh! that metal thing that goes around the blade. Yeah, I have a metal one. Two actually, one is for a dado blade.So I should make a wooden one so that there is very little space around the blade? *more time passes* Yep, I read one of the articles from the Google link that you gave (from woodworkingtips.com) so I'll do that first.I've only made 3 cuts with the saw so far, and I must admit, my heart was beating a little faster. Funny, but I've used one before, and other high speed sharp things as well, but after I've seen 3 people with missing fingers in the past 2 weeks... well.. yeah.Also, I'm a songwriter / musician that happens to be a guitarist / pianist ...so.. more reason for safety.Well, my dad bought that book, and another one on making furniture. I saw them a few months ago, and said, "hey! these are cool books!" he said, "yeah, I'd love to do woodworking, but the tools are so expensive." He recently gave me the books, I said thanks. I make 1/5th what he makes in one year, and now I have the beginnings of a shop. (i've got WAY to many hobbies = )I'll be working on those wooden boxes first, to see how comfortable I am.If you have any other suggestions on learning, I'm all ears. I can't afford to spend to much more. At least right now.Bryan
One item you already have that will help greatly with safety is the clamp on your miter gauge. Especially when you're crosscutting small pieces. Clamp those puppies down and keep your fingers on the handle of the gauge.
I like to make push sticks that enable me to keep my pushing hand referenced to the fence. As long as it is in contact with the fence, it won't be in contact with the blade, LOL.
What resource do you have now that tells you about safety with a table saw? Here's one web site that can help:http://www.woodshopdemos.com/safe-1.htmYou can get a table saw book by Engler, Mehler, DeCristoforo or ?? (can't remember the big guy's name) for under $20. It's a very important piece of the safety picture. If there's a used book store in your neighborhood, look for old power tool books. They're funky, sometimes even funny (I have one with DeCristoforo working in a trench coat!), but the safety guidelines haven't changed.
Maybe you've heard this earlier, but when you're cutting wood for your boxes, remember, never use the miter gauge and rip fence at the same time. It's tempting to use the fence as a "stop" to get consistent length. Doing so captures the wood relative to the spinning blade, bad, bad, bad. You can, however, clamp a small block of wood to the rip fence to give you that "stop" well in front of the blade, then when you push toward the blade, you move past the block, and there is now space between your stock and the blade.
Hmmm speaking of table saws, mine's waiting for me. Got distracted by a family phone call. I'm going through old books today, picking a couple out for a friend. If I find a tool book I don't need, I'll let you know. G'day!!!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Funny, i have the same saw. About the clamps: I might get in trouble for suggesting this but, I usually buy all of my bar clamps and C-clamps from harbor frieght, not wonderfull quality but they work and you can find 18" bar clamps for $2.50That being said i must admit that im a carpenter and not a furniture builer. But even if the clamps are a pain in the neck, you can go out later and buy nice ones and its imposable to have too many clamps.-->
measure once
scribble several lines
spend some time figuring out wich scribble
cut the wrong line
get mad
Thanks Sky,Really? Same saw? Do you have any suggestions for a splitter to fit mine? I'm not as worried about the blade guard just yet, unless I should be. But I'd like to have a splitter. Kickback doesn't look....how do I saw... pleasant.I bought 12 Jourgensen Bar clamps from Amazon for $84. $24 would have been better on my wallet. And just last night, the drummer in my band said, "hey, try harbor freight, they have cheap tools"
you wont be dissapointed by those jorgenson bar clamps, its expensive but you'll be glad you did. My harbor freight comment was more to just get you going. I remember when i was just getting started and i felt like to do anything i needed to spend more than i had on clamps (seems like such a boring purchase when compared to biscuit joiners and belt sanders) But those clamps will make you smile when you use them.RE: a splitter for the saw: You know I've never really looked into making or buying one. Infact ive never even used a saw with a splitter. I did do a couple of modifications that i'll take a pic of and post here later (my cam is out of batteries)______________________________________________
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I've had good luck actually going to Harbor Freight and hand-picking things like clamps. It's as much a quality control issue as anything. When you mail-order them, you get whatever the order-filler grabs, but if you can pick and choose, your odds go way up toward getting something decent.
Fortunately, I only get this opportunity once or twice a year. BTW, their $19.95 digital calipers are a great deal.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
So, just keeping people up with what i'm doing, (in case people are interested) I went to Home Depot last night for some wood. I didn't need much for this first project, so I wasn't worried about the steeper pricing.I spent 25min looking through the Poplar, and didnt find much I liked. So I drove across the street to Lowes, and went through their Poplar. I have to admit, It felt good actually knowing what I was looking for as far as cathedrals, quartersawn, ripsawn.. etc. I was just dying for someone to walk up and say, "wow, you've picked the best wood we have! Great job" But all I got was, "evenin' " *shrugs* I'll brag to my wife.30 min later, I had the wood that I needed for the small 6"x12" boxes that are detailed in the book I'm going through.I poke around the store looking for other things like, Danish Oil, Tape, wood glue.. etc.Right before checking out, I realize that I have chosen 3/4inch think wood, and I need 1/2 thick wood. *sigh* Back to the specialty woods section I trot. I have a handheld power planer, but I don't think it's wide enough for the 5 1/2" piece that I have. So I spend another 20 min going through the 1/2" think wood. I find my pieces, and head home.To my surprise, my clamps have arrived about 9 days early. Amazon is good about that. I bought an iPod Mini through Amazon once, it arrived 3 months early.. heh.So I'm stickering the wood now (how do you say that?) till sunday when I'll start on things. I'll try and post photos when I can. So people can tell me how I did on the wood selection.Thanks for the ongoing help.
great i cant wait to see the pics!______________________________________________
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cidion
After reading thru this thread it really brings back memories, nightmares and oh goodie goddie ones!
Wish I had been able to get on this forum when I started 8 or 9 years ago. These folks will help you out a bunch.
You sound so much like me when I started that it hurts to think about it. Started on my carport with a $99 sears benchtop saw, a B&D power planer and NO KNOWLEDGE. Now after these few years and about $10 to $12K later you would think I was great at this stuff...most of time I'm still just making sawdust...it'll take time and a desire to get better.
A few of things I'll throw in....
Get yourself some sort of dust collector. Sears has some pretty good vacs for real cheap. Add a clean stream brand filter and you can get by for quite a while. Also build yourself an air cleaner, I can't stress that enough!!! My 1st one was a real doosey. But it worked somewhat and was far better than nothing at all. Don't cringe now gang, but it was just a 20in box fan with a box on the suction side I built out of scrap and put 2 20x20 filters in, a 3m filtre and a regular fiberglass one. It made a world of difference for less than $20.
Get some books. And start reading.
Learn to salvage. I have yet to buy any wood for nice projects from BOB or BBB. TOOO pricey...I started with oak pallets building swings...it's out there to be found if you take the time to look. At this point in time I'm always looking for those old buildings built around the 1900s. Here in the deep south they are almost always built out of virgin heart yellow pine, I have a fixation on that wood, can't get enough of it! I'm also blessed with a cypress sawmill less than 10mi from my shop. Use it a lot. Then there's the oaks, pecans, cedars and poplars that I find and get'em milled for .70 a bf. built a small kiln for less than $30. Look around and ask, it's there.
Make sawdust as much as you can. If you are not doing it you won't get better. And as everyone else has said, get the best equip you can, it will payoff in the long run.
Time to go do the dust. Good luck and keep us up to date.
Jimmy
as always I wish you enough
You mentioning old houses brought back a lot of memories. My father and his 10 brothers were carpenters. They built most of the houses in my home town including ours and most of the neighbors. Long after Dad passed, my neighbor's son called me to come check something out. He was remodeling his parents house, and when he removed a wall, he found it was made of solid red oak. There were true 2x4, and 4x4 stock in the walls. He also showed me a ledger book he found that listed the material costs and labor (my dad and uncles). Boy, to be able to buy that wood for that price now. My dad built that house for $2.00 a day. Thanks for the trip down memory lane!
I have those calipers too, pretty good deal.Yeah harbor freight can be a great for certain things, in general i allways stay away fome stuff with cutting edges, motors, or anything requiring hardened steel, and then pick and choose through whats left over.There is one about 1 mile from my house so it can be a little dangerouse at times.______________________________________________
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I don't know why you stay away from the Harbor Freight tools with motors, I bought my 2HP dust collector there and it was on sale for $139. I would have paid at least $229 for the same thing elsewhere. I'm also going to get the 12" disc sander that's on sale for $99. Lowest price I've seen anyplace else was $129 + shipping. Just pick and choose the good stuff.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
"I don't know why you stay away from the Harbor Freight tools with motors, " ... hmmmm... :-) I don't either. I have the HF 14" band saw and by heck, it's a JET/Delta that was built on a Tuesday instead of the regular spray-paint day ... it just cost a whole lot less :-) :-) :-)
-- Steve
Enjoy life & do well by it;
http://www.ApacheTrail.com/ww/
to putzger and highfigh:Harbor freight is a distributor, there are very few tools that they sell that come from the same factory year after year. In short they are very inconsistant, somtimes you get a great bargan where a if you bought the same tool 6 months later it may have been made much more poorly. Besides that, floor model tools are one thing but their power tools (drills, grinders etc..) are garbage, i was more referring to them, but still i would stay away from most of their floor tools as well, simply because other companies do better at making budget models (imho).______________________________________________
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