What to buy first Jointer or Planer
Hi All,
First to my person. I new to woodworking but I have
a lot of fun doing it even I have not have a lot of
time doing it. You know new house, the first baby …
Anyhow I life in the sunny Pacifica California. As you maybe
recognize on my funny English. I am not from the
USA, I am from Germany and life here now for over 7 years,
happily married and work as a Software Engineer. I am also learned
Electrician (German journeyman).
My question is: What to buy first a jointer or a planer.
I know that they go together but money is always a little
problem? I think to get an bench top planer first
and later the jointer.
I plan to do the flatting of boards by hand and then run
it through the planer.
I still have not setup my shop properly. Our garage is still
a big mess.
I looking forward for your advise.
Cheers
Stefan
Replies
Like you say they go together, but if I had to choose, I would buy the jointer first.
Cheers. Walker1
Just me..One posted..Like you say they go together, but if I had to choose, I would buy the jointer first.I would get the planer.. You can always 'joint' on a Table Saw if you make a fixture to get the first edge straight!
Yeah, your probably right about a buying planer first. I did buy my jointer first, and I use it a lot, and for more than just edge joining, and I wouldn't want to be without it. But you have to have a planer.
I'm actually looking to replace my old Delta planer. I bought it used and it's time to retire it. I'm looking at buying a new Makita 2012NB, but there's supposed to be a really good deal this week or next on a Delta 22 580, so if it's a good enough price I'll probably go that way
Buy the way, what happened with your planer? Was it repairable, or is it in the scrap pile?
Cheers. Walker1
Edited 8/14/2005 1:44 pm ET by Walker1
Waitin' on parts! Geeeeee But I have my other one to use.. Hope it don't trash!
I'm relatively new to woodworking as well, but have been fortunate to have an adequate budget to start out with nice tools. My limiting factor is time.
Anyhow, I too thought a jointer was priority over a planer, until I saw an article in Fine Woodworking "Face jointing boards in the planer" (August 2004) that showed a method of jointing a piece using a planer with a sled to support the uneven piece. Considering you cannot do the converse -- make parallel faces on a jointer -- maybe the planer is a more flexible option if you can only afford one tool.
Mind you, a good jointer is a joy - in cooperative wood the faces come out sooooo smooth.
Stoffel,
I purchased the thickness planer first - simply because I found one on sale at half price! The $250 Canadian I saved will be a good start to saving for a jointer. In the meantime - like you, I thought I can true the boards up fairly easily with hand planes - then run them through the thickness planer. For me it is easier to true a board by hand than it is to thickness plane a board by hand.
Well I bought a new Planer today, thanks to Fiddler telling me about a deal he got on one. I ended up getting the Delta 22 580 for $299.00 can.,and got them to throw in a $50.00 five roller stand, and 20% off a second set of knives.
I had wanted to go with a Makita, but they don't stock them in my area, and it would have been $650.00 can. to order one. But after looking over the Delta, and reading all the good feedback on this forum, and good shootout reviews, favoring the Delta, I'm sure I'll be happy with it. And I think I got a great price on it.
Well time to go play.
Cheers. Walker1
Welcome aboard, Stoffel. I think the primary tool in the workshop is the table saw. You need straight edges to use the saw accurately. The jointer would be my first choice. It's purpose is not only for flattening before planing but for straightening stock edges as well. Straightening an edge and keeping it square is a difficult task by hand. Flattening a board before planing by hand is pretty easy, the surface doesn't have to be perfect since the planer will do that. You can always buy wood that has already been planed but getting it straight is up to you. The jointer can also be used for rabbeting, beveling and notching for stop dado work.
As you stated you really need both. But I got a planer first. The planer will allow you change the thickness of S2S or S4S lumber. You can get a decient glue edge on boards less than 36" with a good table saw. Once you get a planer, jointer, and band saw you will be able to machine your lumber from rough stock, which really opens a lot of doors.
Mike
Stoffel-greetings. This is excellent news that ve now can refer electrical problems to a Journeyman electrician, yes?
As it seems that you are keen to flatten one side by hand planing then getting a planer thicknesser first would be the thing to do. You will then be encouraged to save up faster to buy a jointer, I believe.
Take some time to look into the archives of this forum-plenty of advice on all this.
Welcome Stefan - You'll find valid arguements on both sides of this debate. Because it's possible to flatten a board on a planer with a sled, and put a square edge on a board with a router or TS, I lean towards getting the planer first. IMO there's not a better tool for flattening and squaring a board than a jointer, but if I were in your shoes, I'd grab the planer first.
Note that planers are chip spitting monsters. You're going to want a DC shortly after getting one!
Good luck!
I was in your shoes last year and I chose to purchase a Makita planer and LV scrub plane, Stanley jack plane, and 4' straight edge. Flattening by hand is really no big deal. It may take 30 minutes to flatten a 6 foot by 9" board but unless you plan to go into production work- it is time well spent. Also- you are not limited to the 6" width associated with most jointers. Thicknessing a board by hand would be a real pain so I can't really see the logic in ever purchasing a jointer first. Either get them both or buy a planer. Regarding hand planes- learning to use them and experiencing the control, precision, and surface quality they achieve has been my greatest joy to date with this hobby. Besides, a good handplane like those made by Lie-Nielsen, Lee Valley, or Clifton will hold about 85% - 95% of their value. Just look at ebay and you'll see.
Good luck,
Lyptus
Lyptus, I've been looking at spending a little extra,and buying the Makita benchtop planer. The problem is no one in my area carries it in stock, so I would have to buy it sight unseen. I've read a lot of good reviews, and I do know Makita quality, but I would like to know what you think of yours. Are you happy with it, any thing you don't like about it, how long do the blades last?
Thanks. Walker1
I got my Makita planer on Amazon.com. A secondary seller was offering them new for $350.00. It arrived in just a few days and shipping was free. The blades are reversible so you can reverse them once the first side gets dull. That said, I used my planer to plane 30 BD FT of Lyptus (a very dense wood like hard maple) and the blades went dull- but that was probably because I fed a long board through it that was slightly wedge shaped (unknown to me) so the planer was forced to try to remove 1/4" of material off of 8" wide board which benchtop planers are not really equipped to handle- so that one incident may have dulled the blade. After switching the blades I've run an additional 30 BD FT of Lyptus through it and the blades still seem sharp. Overall, I am pretty happy with it. The finish is impeccable but snipe is noticiable in the last 3" of the board. A few swipes with a smooth plane will eliminate the visual effect of the snipe and I suppose I could mess with the infeed and outfeed table heights to see if that helps but I haven't yet. Height adjustment is a breeze and Makita is light weight and relatively quiet. Because it is lightweight though, I had to bolt it to a table to prevent it from moving when planing large heavy boards. I purchased the dust collection fitting for my planer but it has a 3" port so I had to jerry-rig a connection between it and the 4" port on my dust collector. You definitely need a dust collector. If I were to do it all over again I would investigate the new Dewalt with a 3-blade cutter head but I've never seen it advertised for anything less than $499.00 and I've heard snipe may also be a problem with it.
All this said, I am happy with the Makita and have faith that it will hold up to years of stress which I can't say for many other brands.
Lyptus, Thanks for the feedback on the Makita. I'm using an old Delta right now, and it's time for a new one.
I hear there are a lot of good deals on Amazon, but they don't ship to Canada. I think I'll wait until the WWing show in October, maybe I'll get a better deal then.
Cheers. Walker1
Hi All,
Big thank you for your advise. It seems so, that it is the best
to go with a planer first. There is just the question which
one. But I think I just need to follow some other conversions
here to get good overview about what machines suits my
needs and wallet.
I have already bought a LV low angle jack plane and going to
get a LV 4 1/4 smoothing plane soon. I think form the hand plane
site I should have the minimum of tools to get around.
Cheers
Stefan
Hi Stoffel,
Welcome to Knots!
I got along fine for several years using hand tools supplemented by only three power tools: A bandsaw, a jointer, and a drill press. With these tools I was able to produce a wide variety of furniture.
When I obtained a tablesaw and thickness planer, I was able to work more quickly and easily, and began making a lot more cabinets.
My short answer is that the kind of tools you need depend on the kind of work you want to do.
Good luck,
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
Here's a convertible two in one machine:
http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/JP0610-Jointer/
I just found it using Google, I have no idea if it's any good or not. But the idea of one machine for both functions seems like a good one, because the essential part of it, the cylinder and knives, is the same for both. Why pay for that twice?
-- J.S.
Am I missing something? Looks like a 6" jointer to me.-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
Hi John - That's the Ridgid 6" jointer and is essentially identical to most other 6" jointers. It's a good jointer, but a lousy substitute for a planer. They're a calling it a jointer/planer which is really a misnomer, since jointers and planers are two different machines which perform different functions. Even though they both have a rotating cutterhead and will both remove small amounts of wood from a surface, neither will do the same tasks as efficiently as the other. Without the help of a sled/jig, a planer will not flatten a warped or twisted board, but a jointer will. A planer will make one face parallel to the bottom face while it removes stock. Send a 1" board with a slight twist through a planer and remove 1/16", and it will come out 15/16" thick, but will still be twisted. A jointer will flatten one face of a board and will create an adjacent edge which is 90 degrees to the flat face, but will not make two faces of the board parallel to each other. More often than not, trying to flatten the opposite face will result in a wedge shape on a jointer. The two machines work incredibly well in tandem, and I'd be lost without them even though there are other more laborious methods to achieve the same results. Flat square stock right from the start, plus incredible flexibility to shave a little here and there.
"A jointer will flatten one face of a board" that is if you are willing to limit your work to the size of your jointer; usually around 5-1/2". I hate to think of all the nice lumber ripped down to fit a 6" blade then glued back together. Mayber there should be another grade in the lumber industry to handle all those woodworkers who just need narrow stock. Something like a FAS-N for narrow? In my opinion, a weekend woodworker is better off getting their stock S2S or at least skim-cut to a close dimension. A planer sled and a good handplane will help do the rest.
Tom
I have found my planer to be a much more valuable tool than my jointer. I haven't used my jointer in years.
When I started getting serious about wood working I bought a radial arm saw. I could joint, rip, cross cut, miter all in one machine. Later I bought my table saw, but still use my radial for straightening lumber. I have a piece of aluminum window framing 2"x4"x17' I bought at a commercial glass shop that installs store front windows. With this long fence (supported by pipe clamps at 4 locations to keep it straight), I can rip lumber and plywood by myself and get great edges. This is much more accurate and time saving than trying to use a jointer or table saw.
I can do a better job, faster on other machines than the jointer to accomplish the same task. Want to buy a used jointer???
If you need advice on using your jointer, I'm sure there are people on this forum that can give you some valuable tips, and technics, that would enable you to make better use of this machine in your shop.
Cheers. Walker1
You are probably right about needing/asking for help with the jointer.
I have found I can straighten lumber on my radial with the 17' fence and straighten/edge anything smaller on the table saw...all with much more accuracey and save time.
The planer is a different story...no other tool will quickly subsitute for it.
I hardly used my jointer until I got my planer...Were I to do it over, Planer first. Mark
Visit my woodworking blog Dust Maker
Does anybody make a good quality combination or convertible machine that performs both functions?
-- J.S.
I've used a Makita like this one with great results:
http://www.craigslist.com/sby/tls/89343382.html
There are several that are decent combination machines. Your budget will decide what the capacity and capabilities are.
Hitachi makes one of the best, Makita as mentioned...
And, due to space restrictions I'm guessing? Almost all of the European manufacturers/distributors make combo models (minimax, laguna, etc.. etc..)
That is a great option if you're looking for maximum space utilization. They can run from 700-6k+ though.
I will likely get rid of my Griz planer and 60B someday soon and get a Minimax combo.
G'luck.
michael
I'd get a planer first, a jointer would be way down on my list of things needed in the shop. If you don't have a lot of shop time, thinking about surfacing rough lumber is a waste of time. My local yard will do it for me at $0.10 a foot. I don't have to mess with the chips or waste my time. However, you should get a planer to resize lumber and to (as someone else posted) use a sled/jig to true warped stock.
A jointer is not necessary if you build the above-mentioned sled. As far as truing an edge, it can be done with a #7 hand plane much more reliably than an entry level jointer. A little practice and you'll be amazed at what you can do with less.
At least that is my take on it.
Tom
I started a workshop earlier this year and my 'jointer' for straightening the edge of boards is a router mounted under the tablesaw extension with a home made 'L' shape fence clamped to the table saw fence. The 'jointer' fence is clamped to the ts fence with g clamps and the infeed section is 1/16 less than the outfeed and there is a cutout for the router bit. I then use a straight router bit and feed the wood flat on the table. This is much easier than feeding upright on a standard jointer especially on wide boards. Hope this makes sense ans I don't have any photos of the setup.
I decided that the table saw would be my main purchase and I will add other machines later, a small portable planer just gets me by but this means finishing planing by hand.
I spend ages just browsing the web and reading previous messages thinking of the best tool purchases.
Have fun,
David
I'm in the "planer first" crowd, if you have to choose. It's much easier to find substitute process for jointing than it is for fast stock-thicknessing and the whole parallel-face thing. Sled for face jointing, tablesaw for edge-jointing, followed by a hand plane if absolutely needed.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I'd go with the planer first, UNLESS you plan to buy a lot of rough sawn material and make furniture. For cabinetry and simple furniture, buy surfaced stock. You can edge joint boards up to 6" in the planer, just stand them on edge. Won't straighten but will smooth.
Mike
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