I would appreciate some suggestions as to what I should charge.
I am just about through making 5 large display cabinets for a client who is a very good friend. The only discussion we had about my charge is that I would be very reasonable and he said he would be very fair. Ive made a nice mantel for him and he wanted me to make these cabinets.
This friend is opening another business which will sell artwork and unique art decorations.
The cabinets are 8′ tall, 4′ wide and 2′ deep. They will display from both sides and have a large drawer at the bottom 2′. The cabinets will have glass shelves and recessed lighting which will be hidden from view by the crown molding. The face side is fluted wood on both sides and will be painted. I will deliver primed. He furnished the materials.
I had in mind that fair would be not less than $400 each. While the cabinet(s) are basic except for the fluted wood and the crowns, the challenge of making a case that big and making it square is nontheless time consuming. I am attaching three views of one in the rough. I would appreciate opinions as to the amount to charge.
Replies
coolbreeze ,
Track your hours x your hourly rate plus overhead costs , even in a home garage shop 2 - 4 dollars an hour.
good luck
I live a long way from Ms but $400 for labor is probably about right for my market area. I wouldn't be able to get anymore than that. The fact that it is for a commercial venture is also worth a liitte more. I often use the "what the market will bear principal"
Brian
How many hours will each unit take you ?
Will you also install the glass and mirrors ?
How about delivery , they don't give that gas away .
Your utilities , insurance , vehicle and supplies / screws , nails , glues sandpaper or belts , dust masks are a few of the things that make up your expenses . Of course any rent or part of a house payment that apply as well .
An hourly wage plus your real expenses will not include any profit .
You have made an investment in tools and equipment and need to maintain them as required , switches go out bearings go also to mention a few .
You could also bid the job as if you supplied the materials , then work it backwards and subtract the cost of the materials .
good luck dusty
Dusty.. I was thinking in the time for construction of one unit of 10 hrs labor as someone was suppling all the material. I assumed( can get you into problems) that delivery was not part of the deal. I am sure that doing the other 4 would take less time than the first one with all parts being cut at the same time. I do agree with you on the overhead issue. I have never come up with a definitive price but I am sure that the $40. per Hr would result in me receiving approx $28. And you are right about equipment, just replaced my arbor bearings. OK, maybe I am a little low. Take care and have a good one.
Brian
Edited 9/18/2006 2:05 pm ET by 2x4
Did I read your reply correctly? $2 to $4 is half mimimum wage. Mine is a 24' x 34' workshop. Frame carpenters in our area makw $12-$15 per hour.
2 - 4 dollars an hour in a small home shop may be the overhead cost , not including your wage or any profits , sorry for not being more clear .
dusty
Cool,
How long do you think you spent on each display case? That might help determine a better idea of what you should charge. If you had 10 hours in each cabinet, and your friend supplied the materials, then $400 is fair, but I agree that it would be the least I would charge. Another poster mentioned delivery - many people forget to factor that in. I build kitchen cabinets, and I add $100 for delivery. I am assuming I will have to make an extra trip or two if I forget something or if the customer needs something additional. I'm not saying you should charge $100, but you have to get 5 of those over to this guys business, and get them inside. Also shop supplies - sandpaper, paint/primer, paint thinner, etc. These small things add up quickly. And don't forget to mark these things up a little. You used your gas to go buy them, or paid shipping if you ordered them. But, like you said, the client is a "very good friend" (VGF). Sometimes we don't get paid what we would like after we factor in that VGF discount. Ha Ha!
Lee
Lee,
Time in each is hard to figure and I did not keep the time. It is hard because most of my time was spent in setup. I had to cut the flutes(60). The case and all its parts are precicely the same. To get this I made a template and cut each shelf and drawer part using a trim bit. Maybe I am slow but all that took considerable time.
I cut 24 drawer parts, 10 case parts including 15 dado's, and 15 shelves and 8 circle tops using template with a pattern bit. The circle tops were precut but fitted by using a marking knife and cut using a straight edge and pattern bit. The case drawer glides had to have a build out which was simple but took a bit of time to do because the drawer glides offer no margin for "play". All this is in addition to the time cutting 60 long flutes.
Case assembly including assembling the drawers out of the pre-made parts, and cutting and installing the rap-around crown does take about 10 hours.
I should have been more definitive in my first post.
Thanks for your reply and would welcome additional comments.
Edited 9/18/2006 10:29 am ET by coolbreeze
"It is hard because most of my time was spent in setup." Setup time counts too! That's why one-off's cost more than multiples. Don't be shy about including that time, it's part of the package.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hey Cool,
With assembly time at 10 hours each, it sound like you might have had closer to 15 or 20 hours in each display case total. I think $30-$40 per hour to be a reasonable cost, some people charge more, some less. At $30/hr, the cost would be closer to $600 each. I don't charge most of my good friends my regular rate, because they do things for me and it usually all evens out in the end. However my dad always told me the fastest way to go broke is to do work for your friends. In my opinion, $600 sounds fairer than $400 considering the time you spent on the project total. It just depends on whether you want to charge your friend that much. I've lost a few "friends" that were insulted because I tried to charge them a fair price for something and they thought they should have gotten it for next to free. It doesn't sound like you will have the same problem with this guy, you told him it would be reasonable, and I think $400 each is a steal, $600 is reasonable. Just my $.02. Let us know how it all turns out.
P.S. I see from your profile you are from Hattiesburg. I'm just a few miles south of you in Picayune. I haven't run across many fellow woodworkers from Mississippi around here. Glad to see I'm not alone.
Lee
Edited 9/18/2006 12:28 pm by mapleman
$400 seems cheap even if your friend supplied all materials. If you are saying $400 including materials costs, then you are way, way too low.
For a friend, I'd make those $500, but I'm fast. If you're new to casework and had to hunt down materials yourself, unload it all into the shop and room is tight and it's a big pain-in-the-a55, then you'd be fair to charge more.
Nice looking project, sir.
Thanks for all of you for your input. I have decided that I will charge $500 for the cabinets. I did pick up the materials and will help with the delivery. It takes three of us to load/unload and move inside.
Actually, all considered, the $500 is a real deal for my friend. I told him I would want to feel I have contributed to his new venture and I feel that that price does just that.
Coolbreeze
BTY, I have the last case glued up and waiting to cure. I checked my hygrometer and the humidity is 83%. Looks like I will have the clamps on for a while.
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