What tool manufacturer would you pick
cuttoff | Posted in Power Tools and Machinery on
I am dealing with a leasing company that would prefer to buy the majority of the major tools for my new business from a single vendor. I don’t have to comply with this but the lease rates do rise significantly. So the question is…..
If you were equipping a commercial cabinetry/furniture shop with brand new equipment, what manufacturer would you be most likely to pick. A consideration is that this is not a one man shop.
Expressions Fine Wood Working and Cabinetry..A division of Schefer Engineering Inc., Santa Rosa, Ca.
Replies
My choice hands down would be General. Out of the three shops around town I have visited two had all General tools and one had about 3/4 new General tools with a couple of old Oliver machines.
In my shop I have mostly Rockwell Delta and it is a step above anything that is made by Delta now. But I do own a General table saw and it is a very solid well built machine.
Scott C. Frankland
Newfoundland Wood Worker
profit depends on cost. If your costs for equipment is too high it makes turning a profit in the first years of business difficult. Controlling costs while achieving acceptable results is a difficult mix. Most equipment is made in Tiawan, the differance between brands is very blurry, this brand has this feature that brand claims this level of accuracy, another brand will claim the highest reliablity. I know one kiln that uses a polish made planer with supurb results, yet when that planer came on the American market it was very poorly recieved.
You need to ask yourself when selecting a MFG. what is the price preimum I have to pay for this and how will it turn a profit now? Once you're past the salesman hipe and owners bias, it boils down to cost per unit produced.
You get a head start with Grizzly, They cut out the middle mans profit, and still sell a good product. Often the differance in price is enough so you can afford to purchase the bigger better machine. For example, table saws. For the price of most 10 inch cabinat saws you can purchase a 12 inch Grizzly. That allows a great deal more flexiblity, plus longer blade life. I can afford a 8 inch long bed jointer with a Grizzly for what I whould have spent for a 6 inch General short bed.
Yay, another Grizzly friend! forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Frenchy hows the house coming along.
I have never laid eyes on a Grizzly machine so I cannot say anything about them. They are just not sold in my area of the world. I do have a Busy Bee bandsaw that looks just like the Grizzly 18". If they are one in the same than I would say they are better than most home use or medium duty tools. But for a production shop with thousands of board feet of lumber being used and a half dozen different people using them I don't know how they would hold up. But as I said I have not used them and can only go by comparing them to similar quality tools.Scott C. Frankland
Newfoundland Wood Worker
I agree with Ed Gregg....for real commercial stuff, you should be thinking in terms of dealing with one distributor, that carries various brands. Even there, though, I can't think of any distributor that has the perfect lineup of brands, according to my druthers. Many manufacturers only make one type of machine....Weinig makes moulders but not tablesaws, Altendorf doesn't make anything except saws, etc....Some companies like SCM make a pretty wide range of tools, but they aren't all gems. Take a look at a company like Stiles, and you'll get the idea. I'd narrow it down further to Italian, German, and Austrian manufacturers too, with a few exceptions.
Same thing if what you're looking for would really fall into the 'light industrial' category; you're looking for a reseller that deals entirely with the trade (no hobbyists), has a good selection of brands, an exceptional record for service, and preferably stocks parts and has a technical staff. Pretty much everyone will have some Asian lines too; don't confuse these with the home shop Asian imports that mostly get tossed around this forum, these are pretty high quality tools made for heavy duty industrial use.....I'm talking about $20K ripsaws, and things like that (lots of it big dollars), which still represent big dollar savings from European brands and can do a very good job. The Asians are now doing a good job at some of the high tech stuff....I'm looking at a Taiwanese CNC router, and in my region, Asian moulders are going head to head with Weining, the German 'Mercedes' moulder. Most shops I visit have a mix.
Depends who is close to you, and what you're looking for. My bet is you'll probably wind up with at least two primary vendors.
cabinetmaker/college instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
Busy Bee is a Canadian equivalent to Grizzly, I'm sure the tools come out of the same factories, or at least are built to the same drawings. I have an older Grizzly tablesaw and can get replacement parts (to a certain extent) from Busy Bee.
Scott,
So far so good, I'm held up for at least the next three to four weeks, I need to relocate the electric service and found out with some reaserch that while I can legally do my own connection, the Power company will delay evan more than they are now, (they speak in terms of 6 to 8 weeks to connect do-it-yourselfers) so I'll cave in and Hire an electrical service company. (curses)
In the meantime I can catch up with the production of flooring and wall panels.
Anyway I'm well into the third bunker of black walnut. So with the Oak, Tamarck, White pine, Hard Maple, Cherry, and Black walnut I've run close to 20,000 bd.ft. over the Grizzly planer and jointer. Other than sharpening and a few adjustments (that were easily done without referance to the manuals) I haven't had a problem. I don't know what kind of volume the original poster was talking about, but I'd guess my use is a little more than a typical hobbist would do.
The one thing I've found is that the cost of sharpening blades is within 3 dollars of new blades. Since sharpening requires me to drive into town and buying is done over the internet whenever I feel like it, guess which I've selected......
Grizzly had the same jointer as 6 other mfgrs. The difference were things like handles and paint color; I believe it was American Woodworker who basically made that statement in many more words.
Your sitution sounds like a dream come true. In the Dallas area, most of the major shops and factories use a mix of the commercial and industrial Powermatic line. The Model 66 for example, is considered to be a commercial saw but is often used in many industrial tasks. Much of the Powermatic line is still US-made, and it has a legendary resale value. Also, most major cities and metro areas will have a Factory Rep assigned just to that area. For a cheaper alternative with similar benefits, consider Delta or Jet. Stick with this triad and you can't go wrong.
"Hide not your talents, they were for use made. What's a sun-dial in the shade?"
- Benjamin Franklin
If you really have a commercial shop, then all the brands mentioned so far would be considered marginal at best. Go to a major shop or furniture maker doing 30, 40M or more in annual sales - you won't find too many Grizzly or Generals - you will find German and Italian and American (e.g. Onsrud, Wenig, SCMS). You need to find a good commercial equipment dealer - many are located in North Carolina or Michigan - those folks know machines and are used to supplying production shops. Contact some of the professional associations - both equipment and manufacturers - they can guide you to folks who live and breathe machines.
Ed, you on the right track. And so is Frenchy, that's why I'm leasing and not buying. It does appear that a single source manufacturer is not going to cut it so now I'm looking at a single source reseller. I have a couple putting together three tier bids using assorted manufacturers. No offense to anyone, (I have a lot of Jet stuff in my home shop), but the bottom tier will be these types of brands. The middle and the top tiers are up to the resellers to choose. The leasing company is favorable to this approach as a way to stabilize the costs accross the board. Expressions Fine Wood Working and Cabinetry..A division of Schefer Engineering Inc., Santa Rosa, Ca.
If you are doing this as a production operation with employees to be paid and you need to closely monitor your P&L, then you can't afford downtime with machines. Even Jet which has a good reputation for a home shop can leave you high and dry if the local doesn't have the part. Machine supply houses that do it for a living for the cabinet and furniture industry make sure they don't leave you high and dry. Cutting corners now will cost you later; visit some production shops that have to meet tough deadline, talk to the folks and get their opinions on who is the best suppliers in your area. Simply buy by brand alone doesn't work when you've got to meet payroll every week.
Are you mixing two concepts? Buying from a single vendor wouldn't normally mean buying all one brand, it would mean writing one check to a reseller.
Dave
I have a friend who runs a shop in Virginia and has all Northfield machinery. It's an awesome display of machinery when you walk in. The Minnesota company produces some of the worlds best equipment and highest prices. I personally use General and am very happy with it.
Good Luck,
Lar
Hiya Steve! Busy these days, eh? Do you have a Ballew tools catalog? I got one in the mail 2 days ago, and it looks like something you should have in your library fer sure. Much more industrially oriented than the other stuff I get, and with Systimatic galore. http://www.ballewtools.com
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
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