Replies

1. 
   a_Furnitologist | Jun 06, 2006 09:46pm | #1

   So you've been bankrupted by Norm---

   This is what I do:

               West Epoxy if it has edge gluing.

               Resorcinol for items like plugs, little dab for pegged tenons.

                You'll have more posts for choices.

   Neil

    

    

    

    

    

    

    

1. 
   bankruptedbyNorm | Jun 07, 2006 10:52pm | #2

   Thanks for in the info.  Yeah, in my ignorance he kept convincing me I needed an additional tool for simple projects that a handplane could achieve more quickly and accurately.  Oh well, all those tools sure look pretty.  Now if I could just upgrade them somday... 

   Since no one else has replied yet, can I pick your brain?  I'm not experienced with using epoxy for glue ups.  What is the clamp up time for West Epoxy?  Can I get it at a big box store.  Expensive?  Same questions for Resorcinol....I've never even heard of it. 

   Also, any idea if Titebond 3 would work on a resinous wood like eastern red cedar?

    

1. 
   a_Furnitologist | Jun 08, 2006 01:25am | #3

   Norm is hawk'n more Delta.......you better not watch....I like your handle!!!!

   The clamp time for West epoxy is based on the temperature you're working in.  Each has a number and on the back of the can is a bar graph indicating temperature and the corresponding number of catalyst you select.  Pretty straight forward off directions.

   The best part about the West System is the pumps you buy provide you that 3 to 1 resin to catalyst mix with one push of the pump.  Very easy.

   I usually buy my epoxy in a local marine supplier.  Little pricey, stay to the small sizes.

   Don't go crazy with the amount you put on each edge. It is slippery, so I use biscuits and make sure the void are full, to keep things aligned while applying pressure.

   West has really good tech information also. Probably google "West Epoxy System" and get tons of tech info.

   As for the resorcinol.......that's a product you should be able to pick up anywhere. Its a powder form that you mix with water.  I've made "too many" adirondack chairs and used resorcinol in all wood plugs and have not had a call back and this goes back to the late 80's. Buy the small plastic tub size....stuff goes a long way. Label is white yellow and a brown color.

   One more thing,  although I use West Epoxy for my edge gluing I try to design to avoid edge gluing on items exposed to the elements.

   Now for the TiteBond3...........funny, I just picked up a bottle for a job that although the case will be in doors it will sit to close to seafaring conditions, so I've decide to use TiteBond 3 to off-set my watery weather concerns.  Jury is out for me on TiteBond 3 until this job is done.  To address the oil cedar adhesive part.....that's why I go to West not only for the outdoor elements but also the wood I use outdoors has been in the teak family.....same oily...silicon feel as your cedar.

   Hope this helps..........Neil

    

    

    

    

    

1. 
   bankruptedbyNorm | Jun 08, 2006 08:40pm | #6

   "Norm is hawk'n more Delta.......you better not watch"

   Yeah, I've already got me some of those. 

   The biscuits thing sounds like a decent idea for alignment with epoxy.  I'll keep that in mind if I end up using it.  I  realize that glue ups on exterior furniture isn't the best idea.  I don't intend to do a lot of glue ups, but I am a Yankee at heart.  With the wood I've got I figure I might be able to make one additional adirondack chair if I do a few glue ups (of course that one goes to the mother in law.  If the glue holds it will outlast her).  I'd use them in areas that don't take as much stress like one of the outter back slats.      

   As for Titebond III, I read a glue review (Wood magazine???) that immersed glueups in water for a long time ( not sure how long, maybe 24 hrs) and I believe the TB III held up quite well.  So my two concerns for it would be 1) an oily wood like cedar  and 2) how well it will handle the elements in an Illinois winter as the chairs will remain outdoors.     

   To answer the 1st question, I can always try a glue up and see if I can break it apart the next day.  Thanks for the other info on epoxy and resorcinol

   Banrupt

2. 
   a_Furnitologist | Jun 08, 2006 05:40pm | #5

   Thought I'd get back to you about the Titebond3.........before you file Chapter11 right after Trump of course.

   I was learning on another forum and came across a fellow building an outdoor bench, face gluing walnut/maple/cherry (cutting board style) and using TiteBond3.

   That's an application I would have went to the Epoxy for,.........but hell maybe TiteBond3 works that well and I just have to get over the delamination fear.

   Neil

   http://www.furnitology.com

    

    

    

1. 
   bankruptedbyNorm | Jun 08, 2006 08:56pm | #9

   "a fellow building an outdoor bench, face gluing walnut/maple/cherry (cutting board style) and using TiteBond3."

   So it sounds that it is likely to hold up to the elements outside, but it still doesn't answer the question about the oily wood factor.  I've never glued eastern red cedar before so I just don't know.  Unless someone else pitches in, I'll run a test and see.  I'll post the unscientific results but it might be a week or two.  This weekend I'm in charge of the kids while my wife works at her hobby making a wedding cake.  Tell you what, the dust from confectioners sugar is just about as hard on the lungs as what's out in the shop.  (Maybe if she could do Trump's next wedding cake I could afford some more tools)  

    

   Bankrupt

2. 
   HowardAcheson | Jun 08, 2006 04:49am | #4

   What is the item?  How long will it be outdoors?

   The reason for asking is that there are a number of adhesive choices that can be used outdoors.  In general Type I "Waterproof" adhesive are not required unless the item is going to be totally submerged for long periods.  Type II "Water Resistant" Adhesives are generally more than enough.

   Type II adhesives are glues like Titebond II, Elmers Exterior Carpenters Glue, ProBond Exterior, Urea formaldehydes like Weldwood Plastic Resin.  Type I adhesives are Urea Resorcinal (leaves a purple glueline), slow set, two part epoxy, polyurethane adhesives (Gorilla Glue), and Titebond III.

    

   Howie.........
1. 
   bankruptedbyNorm | Jun 08, 2006 08:46pm | #7

   "

    

    

   Thanks for the info, Howie.  I'm on the same page with you. 

   "What is the item?  How long will it be outdoors?" 

   Adirondack chairs.  Indefinitely.  See my more recent post for more info.  I think Titebond II or III would work, but my concerns are the oily wood not getting a strong bond, and the issue of weathering the elements. 

    

   Banrupt

    

1. 
   byhammerandhand | Jun 08, 2006 08:54pm | #8

   If you've decided to go the epoxy route, or are just curious, here's too much information on epoxy:http://www.epoxyheads.com/WebGuide_96dpi.pdf

   Edited 6/8/2006 1:56 pm ET by byhammerandhand

1. 
   bankruptedbyNorm | Jun 08, 2006 09:00pm | #10

   Wow, thanks.  I don't have time to read it right now.  Looks quite informative....maybe even what I need to read to help stop the insomnia.  Kidding. 

    

   Bankrupt