Replies

1. 
   DanCC | Jun 30, 2010 10:40pm | #1

   Keep it simple...

   For the application you suggest, I would use a couple of coats of clear shallac.  There is not alcohol around to cause problems and because shallac dries fast, a great many of the problems associated with home applications of varnish are elimated.  Shallac is also just about as hard a finish as you can find, so it will stand the wear.  Others may disagree. Maybve I am just bias toward shallac because I have had good results with it over oil base finishes through the years.

1. 
   LCBacon | Jun 16, 2013 01:00pm | #7

   Shallac?

   Could I use shallac over Howard's Feed N Wax?

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Jun 21, 2013 03:55pm | #9

   Howard's is basically just mineral oil and  wax.  It doesn't make a good base for other finishes.  But it is a snap to remove using mineral spirits and LOTS of paper towels.  

   (Shellac might just stick since it sticks to almost anything.  But I do not recommend that at all.)

2. 
   DanCC | Jul 01, 2010 08:10am | #2

   It depends... how is that for a weasel answer...

   Tung oil is kind of a different fish.  It is both an oil that soaks into the wood and then will dry on the surface to make a 'film' finish like varnish or shallac.  How many coats of tung oil you will need before you get a good surface and how long they will dry depend on the weather, the wood you are working with and the tung oil you are using and what has been added to the tung oil.  Do the normal sanding/steel wool between coats of tung oil, give it time to dry to the touch and when you are happy with the surface, and it is dry to the touch, coat it with the two coats of shallac.  Thin coats are always better than thick ones (oil and shallac).

3. 
   SteveSchoene | Jul 01, 2010 10:37am | #3

   First off, Minwax Tung Oil

   I strongly doubt that the countertop came from IKEA with actual tung oil.  The oil they sell sepatately to treat wood is mostly linseed oil.  Linseed oil provides very little protection.  Pure tung oil is much more expensive, and does VERY little more to protect wood, takes much longer to dry (leave several days between coats), requires more coats to reach an even satin sheen.  It should not be allowed to build any surface film since such a film, like linseed oil, would be soft and gummy.  Neither linseed oil or pure tung oil makes a satisfactory finish, in and of itself.  One coat to bring out wood color and grain, or as an ingredient in varnishs are both fine applications. 

   Then realize that , Minwax Tung Oil Protective Finish is not tung oil.  It is a mix of oil and varnish, and it isn't clear that any of the oil is tung oil..   However,  as an oil/varnish finish  it would provide a more protective finish than pure tung oil.  Oil varnish makes a much more satisfactory finish than any of the pure oils.   If you like the "in-the-wood" look, then just stay with the oil/varnish mix.  2-3 coats should be sufficient.  Remember, you apply, let soak for a few minutes, and then thoroughly wipe off all of the liquid remaining on the surface.  Any film remaining on the surface would be soft and almost gummy.   Oil varnish mixes, as well as pure oils, must not be left on the surface to form a film. 

   You can apply shellac over the Minwax oil/varnish after 24 hours.   Shellac is quick, hard, and attractive.  It's hardness makes it scratch a bit more easily than softer finishes such as varnish.  It's vulnerablity is to household cleaners. 

   You could also apply an oil based varnish over the Minwax.  An easy way of doing this is by using the wipe on method.  You can use a cloth to apply thin coats, and let these build to a film of what ever thickness looks good.  You can thin any oil based varnish about 50-50 with mineral spirits, or you can use already mixed wiping varnish like Waterlox Original/Sealer.  There would be no point in an extra coat of oil/varnish before applying varnish. 

   You can also use a waterborne coating--which is an acyrlic resin finish.  The term latex doesn't mean much in this context, and is only found on the labels of the lowest quality (to be avoided) products.  All waterborne finishes should be 100% acyrlic.   You shouldn't have a problem over the Minwax if you let it cure well--I'd give it an extra day or two.   You could use a coat of DEWAXED shellac as a barrier between the Minwax and the waterborne varnish.  The Zinnser Aerosol shellac is dewaxed as is the Zinnser liquid shellac called Seal Coat.  Zinsser Amber and Clear both contain their natural wax and waterborne finishes (or polyurethane oil based finishes) may not adhere well to them. 

1. 
   DanCC | Jul 01, 2010 11:16am | #4

   Small dispute with your description...

   You say that an oil/varnish when dry leaves a film/ finish that is almost gummy.  While I agree that it is soft, I think that gummy overstates the final result.  I also think you overstate things when you say that oil/varnish mixes and oil finishe must never be left on to form a film.   Clearly it needs to have a harder coating of some kind put over the oil film.  I like the look of depth that an oil finish provides, and so long as the final result is coated with something hard they are fine.  Oil finishes do take a long time to dry and I have heard stories of 'days' to dry between coats.  I have never experienced that kind of a problem.  A day or so with thin coats is the most I have encountered.   

   Your points about waxed and dewaxed shallacs are well taken and good advise.  However I suggested just a shallac coating over the oil base and the wax issue does not arise if a further coating is not being applied.  Three different products on a simple sewing/craft  table using a pre-fab top seems to me to be bit  of overkill.

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Jul 01, 2010 12:31pm | #5

   I'm going to continue to assert  that oil/varnish and especially pure oils are too soft for them to make a satisfactory film on the surface of the wood.   That's what all the manufacturers directions say, that's what all the finishing book authors say, and I've confirmed that with my experience.  With oil/varnish mixes this "in-the-wood" finish can sufficiently durable protection against things like water spots that it makes a good finish by itself.  The pure oils, linseed or tung, just don't make a satisfactory finish except for purely decorative items. 

   Certainly if you plan a top coat over the oil a soft film on the surface is the very last thing you want.  Applying a harder finish over a soft sets you on the road to a failed finish..  That's one reason why only one coat of oil or oil/varnish, with all surface excess wiped off,  under a film finish is all that's needed needed..  

   Yes, if you are going to finish with shellac it doesn't matter whether it is waxed or not,.  Non-polyurethane oil based varnishes will also adhere just fine to shellac that still has it's wax.  But polyurethane varnish and waterborne finishes won't adhere well to shellac with wax--it should be dewaxed. 

   The reason to suggest a shellac barrier between the oil coat and the waterborne is that some waterbornes have adhesion problems over oil finishes if they are not truly and thoroughly cured.  The dewaxed shellac in between just provides some extra insurance.

4. 
   SteveSchoene | Jul 06, 2010 11:28pm | #6

   Even a pure oil cures (polymerizes) becoming a form of plastic--it's not like a non-curing motor oil.  But for archival purposes, neither will do a very good job of blocking wood acids that could damage paper over a matter of long periods of time.   But surely the table top wouldn't be the permanent home of valuable paper objects.  I presume they would be relatively short period resting places until items were encased in acid free archival materials. 

5. 
   LCBacon | Jun 16, 2013 01:05pm | #8

   Sealing Driftwood Jewelry?

   I have made some jewelry from driftwood pieces and would like to seal them with something. Would the waterborne acrylic finish be a good choice?

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Jun 21, 2013 04:02pm | #10

   The acrylic will work, it will change the appearance only modestly.  Shellac will also work with a bit more appearance change that you might like.  

6. 
   10Cinders | Jan 17, 2017 10:40pm | #11

   Tung Oil

   It has been so many years ago that a extensivly reserched Tung oil, but I do remember some things.

   Yes Tung oil and lindseed oil are very different.

   The big problem is getting "real" "pure" Tung oil (not tung oil product or finish, although a good one may also work, but not like pure 100% tung oil.

   I have a number of pieces of furniture to relate to.  One, a table often in the sun with many things on it.  It is sound and very durable, does not take water marks, deepens and richens the color of many many woods and has not faded or changed color in the sun.  The other is my TV table, always with a drink, hot or cold.

   Use it as you wish, but I used a 50/50 thined (with a citris thinner) coat first and the second coat started covering well.  I have been over ten years waiting to put on a finish coat, but it is an antiuque French inlayed vaneer couch back table, and looks great. 

   Hmmmm???

   The preview shows pictures below this, if they come out on the post, they are not mine.  I have none