What was it like when you got started?
I’ve been remodeling homes that i buy and put back on the market for the past 10 years. I can’t handle the stress of the job anymore, and didn’t ever particularly like construction. It was just better than any other option. I might make $20-$40 hour working for myself… …but the stress is hard. So, I’m thinking of putting my construction skills to work in my woodshop. One problem though. I can’t tell if i’ve just never developed a good work ethic, or if i’ve never found something that really intrests me, but i’m a bad worker. I’ve always liked making things. I don’t know if it’s to be noticed, or because i’m good at it. I’ve built up a pretty impressive woodshop that any other experienced woodworker could probably make quite fine furniture in, but i find i don’t have the paitence. I like spending a couple of days on a project, but I’ve never been a detail person. I wonder if i could do it for a living? I feel it kind of goes back to my theory I had when i was in high school. I had two options. Work as a bag boy for $3/hr, or have my time for myself and no money. I tried doing what all my friends could do, bagging groceries, but i quit after a few months and they didn’t. I decided making due without money was superior to suffering at the hands of real ninkompoops at the local Krogers. I’m still debating this issue. I’m 31 and don’t have any retirement plan. My wife makes a good salary but it is not enough on its own to get much ahead. We’ve got a nice house, with a decent mortgage, and i’m trying to decide if i should commit to a “real” job. I somehow got a college degree. Probably because my father was a prof, and i could go for 1/2 price. My heart wasn’t in it and i couldn’t wait to get out. Now i’ve taught myself some skills in working on homes, where i can make some money, but my health won’t take the stress. My doctor, wife, and I realize i can’t continue doing what i’ve been doing. So, i keep thinking about making a woodworking business. I think about bird houses, rustic furniture, beds, dressers, and doll houses. About buying a sawmill and cutting lumber. I’ve had quite a bit of lumber sawn for me, and i have a small kiln. But even that job is so monotonous. I don’t have any avenues that seem open to me. When i think of making dressers, other woodworkers tell me i’ll be working for $5/hr. Well i know what they mean when i price the wood, and look at all the time it takes to finish and see what people i know are willing to pay for my sloppy craftsmanship. They say you need to find a niche. Like Sam Maloof and his chairs. Turning crazy bowls and setting turquios and silver in them seem to be big at the art fairs, but how many people can make it big on that?
I don’t have any real experience in woodworking other than what i’ve done myself. I look at books, and i usually abreviate things.
I just made a grandmother clock from a design i found in finewoodworking. I used the proportions, but the actual processes the author took would have bored me to death. I used but joints and an air nailer like Norm does. It took one day to assemble, one day to sand and finish with wax. Now i look at it and don’t know why i made it. I can tell time lots of other ways. I think i made it so that other people would tell me they couldn’t believe how talented i am. The way i feel about woodworkers who can make a bombay chest of drawers, and spend a month doing it.
I’ve had good opportunities, i really think that i may never have developed a proper “work ethic”. I can’t work all day at a job, 5 days a week. It seems impossible that anyone can do it, and i can’t go back to working for $5 an hour to learn some trade over completly. I’ve thought about scraping together lots of $ to go to one of these furniture making schools i read about in Fine woodworking. Maybe i would catch some bug that would motivate me? Is this possible?
I didn’t know my grandfather very well, but he spent his life as a prototype maker of furniture in the Grand Rapids furniture industry. He died when i was too young. I remember him showing me how to saw with a handsaw, and we cut up a tree with a two man crosscut saw that’s hanging out in my barn, but i’ve never had anyone to show me how to work with wood. There aren’t any schools near by that teach woodworking and i’m afraid they might be a waste of energy anyway. Has anyone learned woodworking because they wanted to, or was it just a path that your life just lead you down? The other aspect I consider is I have never even met another woodworker. Everybody i know who has a workshop is working at a regular job so much, that they can’t find the time to even work there. The other class of woodworkers i bump into are retired guys who make scale models of steam trains with routers.
I’m not sure i even like building things from wood. I’ve spent most of the last 10 years in my workshop building a workshop. I think that’s what i’m good at. Is there a job for people like that? I’ve shopped for every tool. Read evey review, looked at auctions. Went to antique stores, and garage sales. I’ve spent hundreds of hours on the shop, and only a few making anything. I think the tools are more important than anything i’ve done with them. I’m proud of how much i saved on them, how many i have. How automated the dust collection system is. I’ve packed alot of money into my shop, and i’m not sure its a very sound investment. I bought a veratis tennon maker to make some trellises around the yard recently. I really liked how you could go to the woods, get some saplings, cut them to length whip a tennon onto them, drill a mortise and assemble a garden bench in a couple of hours. Thats my style. I like machines to take some raw material i through into them and spit out a chair on the other end. That would be great. Did i say i’m really quite allergic to sawdust? Maybe just really sensitive, but it doesn’t take much to make me stuff up. Great for a worker of wood, eh? I don’t know what makes someone decide to start woodworking, or commit to start a career where they are all by themselves. In the last 10 years i have had a hard time handeling taxes, stress, working by myself, being bored. This reminds me of the only other guy i knew who did woodworking for a livelyhood!
He did it for 2 years full time, and when the owner of the warehouse in which he rented space for his shop asked if he wanted to be in charge of running the huge building instead of scrounging for work, he jumped at the chance and never looked back. Still has his shop. Just threw a tarp over everything, and turned off the lights.
I can’t think of anything better to do. I’ve turned down roofing for $30/hr. I probably could make a lot of money starting a roofing business, but i’m not out to just make money. I want something to do to have meaning and be respectful, so i don’t know if i could make birdhouses, dollhouses and the like even if i could make a living at it. Sorry for the long post but i really would like to know what fundamentally motivates some of you to decide to be woodworkers. Chance? Inherited it? Had to feed the family?
Replies
That has to be the LONGEST post I have actually read.
Dude, you need motivation like politicians need a conscience. Irony is, I see a lot of similarities. I'm picturing me ten years ago, without all the tools. My 2 cents, FWIW.
There's a lot of ways to get motivation in the world. Motivating yourself has to be the hardest route to take, and in the end, likely the most rewarding. Being your own boss gives you some freedoms, but you have to realise that the boss is an a$$. If you can't do that to yourself, self employment might not be your ticket to Nirvana.
Working for others sounds like something your not patently against, and you're not just in this change of pace idea for financial reasons. That, in and of itself, makes you employable in a number of areas. If you want to do furniture, find a furnituremaker or cabinet shop and plead your case. IMHO, if you show up on time every day and know how to cut & sand, they'll be happy to motivate you AND give you a paycheck. If you're any good at it, the pay will go up, not that you care. (Well, okay, we all care some.)
Honestly, the best way for an unmotivated soul to find worlds and worlds of drive I think is this lovely four month thing we have here in the US called Basic Training, but being 31 and not the greatest health, that's probably out. It's a whale of a deal though for anyone else in your shoes and younger. It's even better if you've got a degree, or at least the pay is.
Sounds like a good time to put on a disguise and go to Barnes & Noble and root through the books with titles like "Finding Yourself" or "Your Parachute is Failing" and see if any of the self help stuff doesn't kick start some sleeping ideas. You're an introspective guy. Kick back with some Starbucks on a Saturday. Think about what you really want. Pretend money doesn't matter at ALL, you're just going to be greedy and selfish and do what you really dream about in your sleepless moments. Then come back to reality, form a plan to get there, ignore every stinking idiot who doubts you can do it, and go do it. It will stink for the first couple of years, but you'll find satisfaction, if not outright happiness, in knowing you did what you always wanted.
And don't complicate things by having more kids. (That's my little personal thing these days . . .)
" Clothes make the man. Naked people have litte or no influence in society" - Mark Twain
I don't know what to tell you other than this: you have a remarkable wife.. mine would have thrown me out long ago.
Peace, brother.
That has got to be one of the most honest posts I've ever read.
In answer to your question, I don't know what motivates me to do woodwork - just some mysterious hunger. For a while it was my wife going ohhh, ahhh,... everytime I built something new, but I'm divorced now, so that's not it.
Maybe you're a guy who needs the motivation of other people in your work - sounds like you've been sort of on your own in the contractor/ flipping real estate business. Maybe you're the kind of guy who works best as part of a team, with other people looking up to you, respecting you and depending on you. Maybe you want to do some volunteer work with habitat for humanity or building wheelchair ramps for elderly people with fixed incomes, maybe you want to take on some young carpenters, train them, show them the ropes, help them get their life straightened out. Just some ideas,....
Hope everything works out. Ed
I'm not a pro woodworker...nor builder. I'm an astronomer of all things. But I am building a house...having a hoot. I can build a house today because a couple of years ago I started up a business...doing similar things as I do every day at work, (building electronic systems), but on a higher end. Received some funding from the government, worked about 90 hours a week for 2 years it seemed at both jobs, and then basically took a "break" to build the house.
My glimpse with self employment was that I had to sell seomthing to eat...and feed my family. Scared the crap out of me actually, so I never left my day job.
I'd say that if you are not motivated to work wood, then going to the class isn't going to help. I believe doing things on your own, if you want to be at all successful, does indeed require HUGE amounts of passion for what you are doing. Whether you are motivated by success, money, final product, whatever...something must be inside you that pushes you along. Pushes and pulls I think. And it doesn't sound like that's there for woodworking.
Sounds like you have the "wanting it is better than having it" in regards to the shop.
I agree with the others...you need to decide what it is you want...what you want to do...and make it happen. I can only read from your post you are rather depressed...maybe there's some sense in considering this first, as was stated previously. Maybe you're comfortable with the current status quo...and hence feel no compulsion to provide more for the family? Maybe you just want to be a great stay home Dad?
All I can say, having been somewhat in the boat of flirting with independence, it's a scarey thing when you don't know how you'll pay the bills. And if it isn't natural awake to a huge desire to make it happen...succeed...and be the very best at what you do, I don't think that paints a promising picture for going it alone.
It's not worth much, but that's my two bits. My advise: Go outside and look at a dark clear sky and wonder about what it is you want the world to remember you for. Sam's chairs are some of the most beautiful man-made things I've ever seen...what shall yours be?
I had to reply, I read what you said and an awful lot made perfect sense.
What i reckon is, trying to find your "Thing" right now when your stressed to the eyelids isnt going to work too well, cos nothing is really going to seem very relaxing or pleasurable.
I have had a pretty good go around with stress and know the feeling.
Once a decision is made it is like a weight being lifted, then after a period of time ( how long depends on you ) some possibilities that you would have never considered would now feel right. Make a choice. You can always change it later.
If you like making chairs etc from branches/trees......do that. I have a friend who started playing around with similar stuff, he was very surprised as to how many wanted his work, and were willing to pay quite a lot to get it.
The very best to you dude.
AJ
Wood Hoon
Long post!
Shorter answer.
There's more than some wisdom in the replies so far, but I don't think they're what you're after, right?
If you are prepared to spend a bit of money, and a bit of time, and put in more than a bit of committment, think seriously about a life coach.
There's something, somewhere, for everyone. Sometimes we just can't find it for ourselves. You're not finding it, and maybe you could use some help looking. That's what a life coach does.
A couple of summers ago I put together a web site on this subject. The service it describes is not operating, so don't think I'm pitching for work, but it will explain what coaching can do, and help you decide whether it's for you. Go look at http://www.kiwicoach.com.
If you're interested, do a Google search for Life Coach, or check out the links on my web site. Just don't ask me, man, I'm too busy!
Kelvin,
Good stuff, enjoyed your post. Welcome to life! Confusing isn't it? If it's any consolation, I think many of us go through the same issues and going forward the issues get larger and larger....changing about every three years.
First and foremost don't get down on yourself or think in any way what your feeling is special..it's very common. That does not mean it is not unique or dosen't require a unique solution to you. Kiwimac's recommendation of a life coach deserves exploring.
There are numerous suggestions in your thread that indicates what motivates you and what turns you on....organizing, creating, systems integration, praise and being in control. You also state quite clearly your not willing to pay the price to go to the next level...that is your value thresh hold. There is nothing wrong or lazy about that we all have them. I decided long ago I would not make the investment required to be rich..I did not put enough value on being rich to pay the price required.
What is important is that you identify and gather up all those motivators and find something to do that uses the majority of them in one job or effort..consistent with your values. I suspect the life coach can help you do that.
The alternative it to write poetry.....its all about things that shoudda been...
I appreciate all you guys taking the time to read the long post, and respond. It helps to hear from people who have been there before in some way, especially in a similar field of work. I've been told by most people i'm a "glass is 1/2 empty kinda guy" and i know its true. My post was probably more negative about my situation then is exactly truthful. On one hand I do feel like i have lots of opportunities right now and that freedom is more than most people in the world get a chance at. (I don't know if thats a good thing all the time) If i were brought up in a family of shoe makers, and was expected to be a shoe maker i wouldn't have spent any of the energy i have spent worrying about what to do. Sometimes it seems there are to many possiblities. Well, i won't post a biggie again this time. Thanks to you who took the time, and to anyone who would still like to add their two cents worth, i'm still curious.
Kelvin
Hey, buddy, it seems like you are experiencing the feeling all of us experience from time to time, except that you are experiencing it in an unusually pronounced way just now.
It seems as if you've got a great wife, but life is so complicated, my guess is there are a whole lot of things going on that get tangled up like a ball of string hopelessly (or so it appears at the time) knotted together.
This would be a great time to speak to someone who actually knows what they're talking about, in addition to all the great woodworkers (myself not included) at this site. Good luck.
I see your post as a description of the trees. I read it from my own experience and translated it into the forest of my personal understanding. For what it is worth, this is what I saw in your post and in myself:
a low boredom threshold, a love hate relationship with the excitement and stress that accompany a life full of change.
the gift of talent and a fear of the responsibility, as perceived by self, to use it. Nothing is joy. All is "have to" which often generates "won't do". The stress is phenomenal.
Self assurance to the point of grandiosity without the authentic confidence that should lie beneath.
I do woodworking (even as a rank novice having waited 50 years since the smell of sawdust "touched" me in a primal way) because it brings joy and satisfaction even amidst my older habits of impatience and frustration.
My thought would be that many questions about self would have to be posed by self before the woodworking question could even be put on the agenda. That process of self examination is often (if tritely- through over usage) called a journey. I have been on my own for more than 20 years. In truth, I often find it a real PITA yet would never willingly return to the time before which I now see as a time of unconsciousness.
I wish you the very best. As an aside, please know that as painful as it might be at times, I would give much to be 31 again and be asking the questions you are.
Regards,
Mike
Kelvin,
I've never posted here before but found your post and the others' responses to fall too close to home to ignore. I'm not sure that I can give you any better advice than has already been given except that I think you at least need a partner to work with - the isolation and lack of any ongoing feedback sounds stifling.
It sounds like the things we have in common are a love of variety, autonomy, and a certain lack of structure. While it seems that you have those attributes in your job now, what seems to be missing is the people component - you're bored working by yourself. I don't see how woodworking will help fill that void - at least not working alone in your shop.
The funny thing is that you have my dream job - I'd love to be buying, rehabbing and selling houses! I've got a 9 to 5 job that I can't stand because it is all of the things that we both hate - tied to a desk and doing something that doesn't interest me. I am paralyzed by the fear of the lack of a regular paycheck to feed my family. You mentioned the stress of your job - I'm curious as to the source of the stress. Is it the work itself, the isolation, the lack of a regular paycheck? Seems like those things might still be a problem as a woodworker.
Good luck and I'd love to open a dialogue if you're interested. Seems like we may be able to help each other.
Jim
Kelvin,
Let me share with you something that happened to me at an IBM class. We were a bunch of engineers and programmers (I was the latter) in a week long class and one day a psychologist came in and talked to us about work.
He asked all of us to take a blank sheet of paper. The sheet of paper represented our complete waking day. On it we were to put a rectangle which represented the percentage of time spent with work. Then we were to put a rectangle spent on time with family. The rest was theoretically time spent on self.
He said that while there's no ideal sheet that works for everybody, you should have balance. And that since the largest portion of the sheet was work, that this should be fulfilling and something you enjoyed. No sense working and not enjoying it was the message.
So, I'd encourage you to find something that is meaningful for work. You sound like you don't like working alone and you also sound like you don't enjoy a complete task which requires lots of detail. Simply slamming wood together with butt joints and nailing it with an air gun to get finished doesn't describe a "fine woodworker".
I'm approaching 60 now, and am moving towards lots of woodworking as I near retirement. I've loved working with my hands, creating things, but out of necessity worked as a professional to pay the bills and send the kids to college. My real true love is working with my hands, creating things. At work it was all intellectual and I didn't have the same sense of fulfillment. Nothing seemed to come out of the work. But that's just me.
My advice would be to figure out what you like to do and then find a job which includes that work as much as possible. And, by the way, there is not a job on this green earth that is always fulfilling. Every job has some aspect of it that is the real pits. That's reality. I recently spent a day in Sam Maloof's shop (a class at UC Riverside) and I can tell from his comments that he hated the business end of woodworking. He solved that by having his wife do most of the business things while he did what he enjoyed ... making and designing exquisite furniture/works of art.
John
PS - By the way, if you buy a house, renovate it, and live in it for 2 years you can take all of the capital gain tax free. You'd probably double your "wages". Would that make it less stressful? More enjoyable, since you'd be enjoying the fruits of your own labors?
Edited 2/11/2003 7:43:03 PM ET by johnhardy
I am a full time woodworker. Have been a woodworker from birth. Not that my father or gfather was but that I am. I live to make things. I like to make things out of metal, but mostly to make things out of metal so I can use them to make things out of wood. When I got out of school I tried college for a sim. but it wasn't for me. After a little bumbing around the country, I figured it was time to get to work and the easiest thing I could think of was carpentry cause I had been doing that for fun as long as I could remember. When I was little I liked to build forts instead of playing war. I liked to build cabins instead of playing cowboys. I always wanted to be building something, toys, forts, shelves, furniture, anything. I tried to lead my son to the same fun but he was more intrested in other things. I raised him working with me on jobs and in the shop and he became one of the best hands I have ever worked with, but when he got ready to go out to the world and to school he said that wasn't what he was, so Oh well, an now he is a computer geek. I remember thinking one time years ago when he was a baby(he's 25)that he would probly grow up to be a suit(I have a poney tail) My son gets up everyday and puts on a tie and jacket and goes off to the office. I get up every morning and put on Carharts and head for the work shop.
I am so glad that I have been blessed to be doing what I was made by God to do. I have for the last thirty years only wanted to get more knowlege, more tools, and a better shop, so I could do better work. Even when I was a toddler Mom says I was making stuf. She said I glued my tinker toys to an old secretary cause it need some improvements. When I get up and go to the shop I have to produce, but I am going to a place and doing something that I would be doing as a hoby anyway. Other guys I have known would be buying cars, boats planes , bikes, guns, but I have always bought tools. After 30 years of that I have a pretty nice place to do my work and I don't regret not going fishing as much or to the races or watching the ball games like so many other folks like to do. You can always find me making something somewhere. I have come up through the ranks as carpenter, finisher, contractor, cabinet maker , furniture maker and I guess the next stop is luthier. Oh yea maybe boats. Anyway. You may not be a woodworker, just like I'm not a building inspector.(tried that for 3 1/2 years, I'm not a cop) I'm not a salesman(tried selling at the building supply, I'ld rather use it that sell it to you and tell you how to use it). The deal is you were made by God to be something. You probly have a good hint as to what that is. Sometimes I am tired and don't feel like sanding, but I know it is all part of dilagence and nessesary to the job at hand, so it's just got to be done. We all have to work. Some jobs pay more than others and if you are only in it for the money get one of those jobs. But if you want to be happy for the rest of your life never make a pret......... oh sorry be what you are. Don't just work at something you hate for most of your life so you can retire and do what you want to do. Find out what you are and be that. You still can earn a living,,, unles you are a bumb,,, and it doesn't sound like you are.
I have only looked at this forum for a couple of weeks and thought I could maybe pick up some pearls from the reall woodworkers, and I almost think that maybe most of the folks here are something esle in the day and woodworkers at night, or maybe they are woodworkers that got stuck somewhere else and hope to be woodworkers if there is anything left of them when they get done. Man I hope you don't make that mistake, you are still young and you have a good wife that is putting up with your struggles so dig deep and find out what you are and do it. Do it with all you have, Do it the best you can, and maybe you will be able to say to someone that you do what you do for your living cause that is what you were made to do. Don't forget you don't suppose to use the screwdriver for a chisel and you don't open paint cans with the chisel......and if you have to hire a doctor hope and pray he is a doctor and not a woodworker stuck there.
A.T
This is one of the best threads I've ever come across. I'm 25, college graduate, sitting in an office 40 hours a week doing a job I despise. It's got no soul. In two weeks I'll finally be moving into my new apartment. It was originally an apartment building, built in the 1840's, and I've spent most all my free time the last two and a half years, with my older brother who owns the building, tearing her down and putting her back as close to original as we could. What I've found is that I sit here at work all day reading about carpentry, construction, etc. I firmly believe that I've found what I was put here to do. My problem seems to be finding the right opportunity. I want to be a craftsman in every sense of the word. It seems to me that the "master carpenter" is a dying breed. I don't want to be bouncing around hack crews...I really want to learn everything I can. I say try and experience everything you can, try everything once...and I think eventually you'll find your niche.
ALLIKNOWISTHISPOSTISMAKINGMYEYESGOBLURRY,HAVEYOUALLEVERHEARDOFPARAGRAPHS?
makinsawdust
Thanks for all the time you guys are putting into your responses. Its great to hear everybodies angle. I think this is really helpful. I was worried to write what i really felt at first, but i'm glad i did. I'm printing all the responses and putting them in a file with my post. If anybody still has anything to add please do. Thanks again!
KElvin
Kelvin
I'm one of those guys that works all day so I can do woodworking all night and all weekend. I considered giving up my day job and making a career of woodworking, but decided that I did not want to risk ruining a perfectly delightful hobby! One thing that I did for myself strikes me as an option you may wish to consider ... I designed and built a timber frame house. This is a project that uses all your woodworking skills, as well as your knowledge of the houebuilding business, but in a much more relaxed environment. You can't beat the adrenalin rush on raising day! Good luck with your journey - wherever it takes you!
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