I bought a Bosch 1594K planer. I works OK but I absolutely hate using it. I got it to plane some pine for a door frame. Planing pine causes the machine to clog and it doesn’t leave a very clean surface. To clean up I used a #5 Stanley hand plane. I still needed to take an 1/8″ off to get to the thickness I needed. The #5 worked fine. The surface came out a lot cleaner and it didn’t take too much longer. Although it took a lot more elbow grease. So the Bosch is going back and is getting replaced with a scrub plane.
So what’s the best scrub plane? ECE, Veritas, Lie-Neilsen?
Replies
I love my Stanley 40. Call Patrick or check eBay if you want one of these.
review in recent issue of Fine Tool Journal by Chris Schwarz (also of Popular Woodworking) gave the Veritas scrub plane the highest marks when compared to the L-N (which was also very good).
I have an old stanley 40, but will probably eventually buy ascrub plan from Lee Valley Veritas.
Edited 8/27/2005 8:16 pm ET by jquinn
This has nothing to do with who makes the best scrub, but over on another forum I just read some very interesting information on the use of a scrub. There was a link to a site that stated scrubs are used for edge planing to width, and not really for face planing. It had some very good arguements. Peter
So how are we supposed to thickness?CharlieA human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher
a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts,
build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders,
cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure,
program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.
- Robert A. Heinlein
Hi Charlie. The site did not get into specifics on how to thickness but it seemed to be saying that a fore plane was the tool of choice for that. I will try to find the site and post it over here. One of the main arguements was that scrubs were not really available until 1890 something, well after the start of the industrial revolution..........there was a reference to Stanley's catalogue at the time. Peter
http://www.woodworking-magazine.com go to the weblog section and click on all weblog posts. The article is called scrub planes;a curious animal Peter
Edited 8/28/2005 8:24 am ET by Peter36
Peter,That's an interesting read. Using a plane to rip a board to width. To me it is all the more reason to own a scrub plane. Imagine sawing a 1/4" off of a 8' 2x8. With a scub you just tear it off and smooth with smoothing plane. I'm actually doing something along this line. I'm planing off 1/2" off a 4" wide board 8' long. I'm making progress with a #5 but it is slow going, so I'm getting the ECE scrub plane. (You can do almost anything with a #5 but it isn't REALLY good at anything. Too short to joint, too long to smooth, it's not a scrub, it's just a tweener. In between everything...)Yes, I could find a scrub plane at a yard sale or eBay. (I have the Patrick's August tool list. He doesn't have a #40.) But I don't want to fix, or build or mess with an old plane because I have a job to finish. (My wife is waiting...)
I've got an Ulmia scrub plane in excellent/almost new condition that I'd like to sell. If that would be something you are interested in contact me off line.
I have the L-N and it's absolutely beyond reproach. However, I've come to trust Lee Valley/Veritas, and if they'd had one at the time, I likely would have gotten that, and saved $50. I'm confident that you'd be thrilled with either. I haven't used the ECE, but that's even less expensive.CharlieA human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher
a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts,
build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders,
cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure,
program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.
- Robert A. Heinlein
“planing down to a rough dimension any board that is too wide to conveniently rip with a hand saw….”
That's from Stanley's 1923 catalog, according to Schwarz's weblog, but I think he misinterpreted it. I think the ripping they're talking about is what we would call resawing, so I would interpret that to say a scrub plane is used to bring to rough thickness any board that's too wide to resaw, which of course would be important when resawing was done by hand rather than a bandsaw. Also, if the board is wider, you'd have to waste more wood to get to a given width, so if Chris' interpretation is correct, you'd use a saw on a board that's only a little wider than you want, and a scrub plane on a board that's much too wide.
Having said that, I used a scrub plane to hog the sapwood off of some short walnut boards recently, then put a jointer to them to square and straighten the edges. It worked very well, and was faster than ripping them, but I only took off about 1/4". My scrub is a #40, which I got to help flatten my benchtop. A lot of guys seem to like less mass in a scrub, but when you're hogging off hunks rather than shavings, I'd rather have the mass to help me plow through the stock. I also noticed that the handle on the 40 flexed as I worked it. I'd like to get a 40-1/2 to compare (L-N, LV or Stanley) sometime.
Fred
Edited 8/29/2005 12:37 pm ET by Froed
"That's from Stanley's 1923 catalog, according to Schwarz's weblog, but I think he misinterpreted it. I think the ripping they're talking about is what we would call resawing."That was my first impression too. I agree that he may have misinterpreted the catalog, but if you continue reading I think he makes a point about ripping a LONG board. (Not neccesarily wide. Isn't spoken language a silly way to communicate?)In any case, I ordered the ECE scrub plane from Lee Valley. I'm a little bummed about ordering before seeing polarsea1's post.I have to admit that I'm actually resawing the pieces for my project. A jointer would probably be the best tool for the job, but I'm falling in love with hand tools, so I got the scrub plane. thanks for all the help and discussion guys,geoff
I re-read his weblog, because I didn't remember his discussion of a long board, but he only took about 1/4" of the width of the board. I've done this as well, but certainly wouldn't think of taking 1", or better yet 3" off with a scrub, that would be quicker with a good rip saw or a draw knife.
I think his comment about japanning misses the mark also. Japanning the sides of the plane has nothing to do with which face of the board it sees. Lie-Nielsen doesn't japan the sides of their scrub, veritas does. Why? Likewise, some old Stanley-types are japanned on the sides, some are not. Since this plane is not meant for shooting, it could simply be that masking off the sides was more a more expensive operation that japanning the sides, or someone thought it looked better, or as Patrick Leach speculates, japanning the sides would protect the metal from sweaty woodworkers better, since hogging off wood with a scrub is a pretty good workout.
Why would the blade need to be curved so much if it wasn't meant for the face of a rough board? The blade is curved so that the corners don't dig into the work, and tear out hunks you don't want it to. With the edge of the board you don't want that much curve. For a 6/4 board, you'd have to take about three passes to get a relatively flat edge. With a coarsely set jointer, it'll take one, and the weight and length of the jointer will give a truer edge as well.
As for his comment that the hatchet and drawknife are meant for thicknessing a board, that depends on the board, doesn't it? Staves, turning billets, shingles and shakes, sure, but a 12" wide board meant for a case piece? No way. That's what the scrub is for.
Sorry for getting so long-winded (and anal) about it, but I think his speculation that the scrub is meant for ripping edges is pretty silly.
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it...
Fred
The scrub plane is much better in the wood iteration than the cast iron iteration. No rust, light weight, and easy pushing.
Peter,
That just dosen't sound right. Why would you need a scrub to bring a reletively narrow surface to spec? The benefit of a scrub plane is the rounded thick blade enabling massive amounts of wood to be hogged off of the middle of a board. When used properly, they work amazingly quickly. I guess you could scrub an edge, but why? Your blade would be as wide as some work, and you'd still have to follow up with another couple of steps. Why not just use the fore plane to get the edge close, then joint? As to the scrub not being in use before 1890, I find that awfully hard to believe. The use of other dimensioning tools used to be more prevelent, like adze, scorps, drawknives, twybills, slicks etc, then it is today, but the scrub has no doubt been used for eons. I doubt that with the exception of metal bodies, that planes have changed much in the last 150 years. Not counting that stupid fiberboard plane thing.
I'd like to see that post, can you link to it?
Steve
the link is at my earlier post Peter
I process all my stock by hand. What you want in a scrub plane is the lightest unit you can find. The Veritas plane is TOO HEAVY for protracted use. I have both the ECE and the L-N. I always reach for the ECE first and let my helper use the L-N.
The ECE also puts your hands in the most comfortable orientation vs. a standard "handle and knob" layout.
I used to process all my stock by hand. When I realized that a scrub plane would be beneficial, I made my own. It's lightweight and preforms as well as a store bought one.
Hi, Bald
I realize your question was "what is the best scrub plane", and there are many different opinions. However, you should know that not all jobs are created equal.
A scrub in not a precision operation. The idea is to take off as much wood as possible as quickly as possible. The finish is not important, as you will be following up with other planes. Some planes should be as good as you can afford, such as your smoother and shoulder planes. Other planes, such as the scrub, are a good opportunity to save money for other things.
In an ideal situation, a scrub plane will have an open throat, light weight, and a very heavy iron ground on a radius. Worn out wooden flea-market planes fit this description often better than modern designs. Their iron is heavier, and they are much lighter than cast iron planes. Wooden planes have a feel that is wonderful, compared to cast iron. What I mean is a $25 flea-market junker can perform as well or better than the modern best, IMHO.
It is likely that the scrub plane did not have to be invented until cast iron was in vogue, because there were plenty of worn out wooden planes with open throats.
Regards,
Dan
Bald,
Just to second Cajundan's comments....my old wood smoothers with the big heavy blades cost about $8 bucks each and one has a convex bottom...like a hot knife through butter.
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