All,
Okay, I’m looking for guidance…or maybe its dispensation. I’m making a chest for my niece that has a top with sloped sides…like a raised panel with no frame. The edge of the panel is about 1/4″ and slopes upward for about 2″ to 3/4″ thickness. Attaching the hinges, the brass screws will come through the top. Grinding down the screws has them a bit to short I believe ie. 1/2″ long and they are wood screws so only about 3 treads remain. I have tried different screws with more threads but to keep it from not penetrating the top means a 1/2″ screw…and altough there are 6 screws… So I’m wondering if I should just let the smaller screws protrude the top and file down…six little dots would show. Is there another way to get the strength and not hve the screws show..would epoxy work with brass and wood?..and dummy screws? thanks
Replies
B G,
Pre drill for the screw holes, but stop before exiting the wood. (I use wood disc washers which I save from using holesaws.
Their thickness' when slipped over the drill bit, limits the penetration of the drill)
Then,'tap' the hole with a pointed screw, but stop before coming through.
Remove the screw/tap.
Now, precut the shortened screws and apply one at a time
'till finished. (I cut the screws with a Dremel tool or a grinder) Hold the screw with Visegrip pliers
Work's for me! Stein.
Steinmetz,
That is basically what I'm doing...except I'm using a vic bics (sp?) cause they're hinges for predrilling...and I've grinded the screws using the vise grips...then I wax the screws and hand screw. The hinges are brass 2x11/2" and the screw ends up being about 3/8" long(after grinding)...the top measures about 12x18 so there is a bit of weight, not too much...I'm concerned the hinges will support the top with screws so short..
B G, you might use flat headed sheet metal screws instead? they have threads that are not tapered and they run all the way up to the head .
(Tapered screws are notorious for working they're way out )The sheet metal type affords a bit more 'grasp'. Another fix, would be to drill and countersink additional holes in the hinges for the extra screws.
If possible , stagger the holes to avoid splitting the wood along grain lines.
Stein.
Edited 5/2/2005 1:56 am ET by steinmetz
Steinmetz,
The sheet metal screws are a good thought. I did find some left over screws from a piano hinge (antique brass), they are non-tapered and tread all the way up...but I may see what the hardware store has to offer.
Drilling additional holes in the brass may be necessary too, good suggestion. Thanks ps. maybe I'll add an 1/8"x11/2" thick strip to the underside of top all the way around....hmmm
Edited 5/2/2005 6:57 am ET by BG
I'd leave the top full thickness in the back where the hinges are; only slope the front and sides.
BarryO,
Yes, that would have been a better idea but now the top is sloped all the way around. I'm hopefull that I'll remember the hinge/screw issue next time I design something.
I'm in the process of patching the mortices in the top. From there I'll make an 1/8x11/4 mitered frame and add that to the underside of the top...that will provide 1/8" more stock for the screws to grab and add a shadow to the piece. I'm debating on one last detail; I have a piece scrap from the glue up of the top....do I need to use some of this scrap in my mitered frame to avoid (or minimize)the cross grain issue or is this not necessary....hmmm
Could you use a strap hinge so that at least some of the screws are full length?
Of course you could always rethink the top design; raised panel with the frame (so that you can reuse the existing top) or do something altogether different.
Cheers,
Kyle
Kyle,
I never thought about recutting and putting a frame around the raised panel...nice idea and would have worked. I did add an 1/8" frame on the underside of the top, recut the mortices(a bit shallow) and I can get a good 1/2" screw in there...and with 6 I'll think I'll be okay (we'll see). thanks
Method,
Good idea ...the glue. I'll put a drop of epoxy in the holes before final screw in.
An alternative is to take a piece of 2 or 3mm brass plate and drill holes to match the hinge. use this as a backing plate on the inside. Depending on the weight, you might want to rebate this. Use brass countersunk bolts instead of screws.
The holes can be either tapped to take a fine (BA or metric) thread or countersunk and the ends peened like a rivet. I have tapped a 2mm piece of brass like this and you get a couple of pitches which is sufficient.
If you are feeling really confident, engrave the back plate and people will think it a design element. (practice lots first)
Was it in the tauntonian rags that I read about using bolts instead of screws. And how they actually had a greater holding power, if the pilot hole is just right. Wherever I read it, it works.
I've used it on several endeavours, and in a few "emergencies" along the way.
If you stick with the 6-32, 8-32 that the electrician's wire cutters.crimpers can cut easily, you restore the tread when you back em out. (warning- some cheapo cutters/crimpers don't have threaded guides, so you mash the threads ) You cut em to length, then you just drive em in like screws. You don't even have to run a tap in first, provided you start with enuf pressure.
Maybe that bizarro tact helps ya out.
For the rest of ya, next time you need a #6 screw 4" or 5" long, Keep this concept in mind.
of course, I'd suggest you try it first on scrap.
Any other nuts like me use this methodology?
Eric
in Cowtown
I have had some success in similar situations with brass threaded inserts. Nice big threads on the outside to hold in your thin top and machine screws on the inside for the hinge attachment bolt. As someone mentioned, the bolts are easy to cut to length. The inserts are available in a variety of sizes and are fairly affordable from the McMaster Carr web site and their service is excellent.
Cwalvoord,
That is a vey good idea, thanks. I'll keep that in my hip pocket for next time.
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