I’m looking for 6 inch flex ducting that has a smooth interior to use with my cyclone. Right now I have a kludged together system of el-cheapo snap together metal ducting that takes too much time for me to set up in my small basement shop. I have space to work one machine at a time, and flex pipe would be the best non-permanent connection option.
Does anybody know where I can find flex ducting like the black shop vac hoses w/orange wire ribbing that leevalley sells?
I’m not interested in the clear flex found on various web sites…the interior is ribbed, and creates far too much turbulence to get the cfm I’m targeting. I need about 25′ of 6inch diameter ducting.
Thanks all.
Replies
It ain't cheap, but the place I bought my over arm guard from (PKI) has all that stuff. You can send a drawing of your shop and they will tell you what to get. The flex metal is expensive.
http://www.pennstateind.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=DUCTWORK&Store_Code=PSI
http://www.pennstateind.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PSI&Product_Code=N-FH063&Category_Code=HOSE
Edited 10/26/2004 9:54 pm ET by bones
Edited 10/26/2004 9:56 pm ET by bones
Thanks bones, but no thanks. That would cost the world, not to mention shipping!!! You must have deep pockets, or are a pro with the right priorities(IE, protect your lungs!). Did I mention I'm an amateur? The cost has to be under 200 for 25 feet.
Still, I'm wanting to do one run, straight(within the bounds of the flex) from the cyclone to the machine, with a possible y for a secondary collection point(IE, hood or dust cover on a table saw).
Has anybody seen the Sandor Nagyszalanczy book on dust collection? See: http://www.taunton.com/store/pages/070611.asp
On the cover of this book there's a picture of a dustblower that has a section of black flex duct with orange ribs connecting to the impeller housing. That's what I want! This ducting in the picture looks to be the same manufacture as what leevalley advertises for their shopvac hoses:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=47161&category=1,42401&ccurrency=2&SID=
I have an email into them, and since I just dropped some clams on their scraper plane and some accessories for my leevalley low-angle blockplane, I expect some answers...Here's hoping. :^)
Thanks again, anybody else have some clues? (btw, I have read Bill Pentz's site, so I am fairly well aware of what's typically available.)
Jared,
Why do you need 6" hose when most machines have 4" or smaller ports? My dust collector has a 6" opening with a 'Y' adaptor attached to it that has two 4" ports. I run 4" flex to my machines and open only one blast gate at a time.
Regards,Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
Read Bill Pentz's site on dust collection; The long and short is that in order to collect ALL of the dust created by most woodworking machines, you need to collect it AT THE SOURCE (and not rely on recirculators to clean the air for you). In order to get ALL of the dust at the source, you need an average of 800 cfm at the source. You can only get 400 with 4 inch pipe, and that's optimistic, esp if you're using a caked bag system. The biggest secret in woodworking is that most woodworkers are exposing themselves to detrimental levels of wooddust since they don't have a decent dust collection system. Give Bill's site a full read to find out what makes a proper dust collection system, and why it is important, not just a "when I win the lottery" pipe dream. I postponed major equipment purchases to get my cyclone, and instead have a cobbled together collection of borrowed machines from friends and family who share my shop, and my concern for their respiratory systems.
http://billpentz.com//woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm
If you don't have a dust collection system that gets everything down to .5 microns, WEAR A CARTRIDGE MASK!!!!
Jared
Two things. First, I could suggest trying some of the aluminum flex hose that is sold in the big box stores and is used for hvac sytems and the like. It is pretty cheap in the 6" size, about a dollar a foot if I remember right. I have it going from a home made 6" gate to the back of a shield that I use for my miter saw. I don't know whether it will fit your needs because I don't see it as being very sturdy stuff and won't take alot of moving around like you are proposing. I think I would try and install some 6" piping and limit the moveable connections down to as short a distance as possible. But I am sure you have already considered that.
Secondly, you come across as a bit confusing in your last post about how important your dust collection system is, but then you are trying to find the hose at bargain basement prices. I agree that a good system is important, but if you don't do any woodworking becuase your DC system isn't state of the art, what's the point? Either bite the bullet and spend the money or deal with the alternatives. You could always wear a mask.
I have priorities(good dust collection) and I then have economic realities(I blew my budget on a cyclone). I'm lookng for a specific product that will will satisfy both my needs (800cfm) and wants (ease of use). I can get 25 feet of clear 6 inch flex ducting for 90$, but it's not the perfect solution, but close. If all else fails, I will go to Wyne Envioronmental and buy the clear stuff. I have seen the aluminum flex pipe; it has got its own problems that make it even less ideal than the clear flex readily available. Pass.
Yes it is Flexhaust but I don't know the hose name or number.
DJK
Bob,
I'm kind'a jumpin' in the middle here but I tried the aluminum flex on a portion of my system. The small chips poked holes in it. It's too soft to withstand the chips at the velocity they move.
Regards,
mack"WISH IN ONE HAND, #### IN THE OTHER AND SEE WHICH FILLS UP FIRST"
I havent had any problems with it so far. It is on the far side of a blast gate so I don't subject it to vaccuum where it could potentially crush. I have it installed so it can move about a bit, but it isnt all that streched out.
Bob,
We've used it in completely different ways. I have a 3 HP Grizzly "unit" without all the bags and stuff, mounted in a sound-proof "dog house" out behind my shop. I don't collect the dust, I just blow it into a pile. The aluminum flex was used between the "out" side of the unit and the outlet port built into the back of the dog house.
It looked like swiss cheese when I replaced it with some bullet proof high tech plastic stuff that is ribbed on the outside but almost perfectly smooth inside. I haven't tried to calculate the velocity of the air at that outlet port but it's moving right along!
Regards,
Mack"WISH IN ONE HAND, #### IN THE OTHER AND SEE WHICH FILLS UP FIRST"
Jared,
Since you have all the answers, why are you wasting our time? Then again, if you really had all the answers you'd know that a dust collection system itself pumps out a lot of fine dust. There are sources of fine particulate inside the shop that are virtually impossible to collect and/or filter from the shop. Where is an air filtration system for your shop in your grand scheme of things? Even if your cyclone is located outside your shop, think about the fine particulate matter you're pumping into the lungs of the birds and other critters! If you are so concerned about the environment and your health, find a cleaner hobby. Have you considered stamp collecting?
Regards,Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
Ok, I thought I was going to sign off, but BArnold and a few others seem to think give and take doesn't have a place on this forum.
Read Bill Pentz's site on dust collection, like I suggested before. I don't have all the answers. However, I do know a lot about dust collection, primarily from reading Pentz's site. My system is a Woodsucker II cyclone with a high volume cartridge filter that filters down to .5 microns. I don't need an air filtration system primarily because I designed my dust collection system to catch everything at the source. And what little dust does get through the cyclone is fairly harmless, and in warm seasons, I run a window fan, and in cold, I do wear a mask! Besides, air recirculation systems do not provide the dust protection they advertise, and they wouldn't take care of what gets past my cyclone. Do the math on how many air changes it takes to clean your shop of all air particulates, and you'll find that you might as well cut one board, hold your breath till you leave the room, switch on the air cleaner with your remote or what have you, and come back the next day. Or wear a mask, and get back to work.
Your time is your own to waste, and each of us is responsible for our own happiness. BArnold, you look like a happy guy in your member profile picture. I am sorry you do not feel that learning about dust collection is more important than venting your aging spleen online! If you had read even just the introduction to Pentz's site, you wouldn't have made the uninformed and rude statements that you did.
So far, I have not responded to the very few snide comments in the replies in this thread, and instead focused on answering questions posed by others as they cropped up in my search for flex ducting to suit my needs and wants. However, some might think this forum is a place where information isn't to be found. I found what I was looking for elsewhere, but hoped to find it here sooner, and did, in some respects.
I encourage all of you to ignore those few sour grapes that inevitably pop up in every discussion board...and to continue to share your encouragement, knowledge and insights about woodworking.
And besides, stamp collecting doesn't have nearly the potential for great gear collection as does woodworking. And isn't that what it's all about anyway? He who dies with the most and best tools wins!
I scanned through the article and it makes some good points. I don't disagree that dust collection is important in any shop.
My shop is our two-car garage in which my wife can park her car most of the time since I have many tools on roll-around carts. I have a 1.5hp dust collector with a 0.5 micron filter bag that is connected to the stationary tools via 4" flex hose and blast gates. By opening only the blast gate going to a particular tool, I maximize the collection in that area which works pretty well. I don't have topside dust collection on my table saw, but I'm looking at ways to make that happen with my setup.
Miter saws present a problem because of the various angles the chips and dust exhaust from it. I have what is essentially a cage around my miter saw with two-way dust collection; a hose to the cage and to the port on the top rear of the saw. This type of tool can create quite a dust storm around it. I'm curious about your solution to this challenge.
Sanders also present a challenge but, in my case, all have good dust collection built into them. I have a small hose to use on my ROS's and adapt it into a 4" line. Virtually all the dust is collected; the general exception being the dust captured in the grain. I also have an oscillating spindle sander and 12" disk sander that, when connected to the dust collector, produce little, if any, air-borne particles.
My jointer and planer are mobile and are connected to the dust collector via a 4" flex line when in use. Rarely is there any discharge from the jointer into the air or on the floor. The planer chips are, for the most part, extracted by the dust collector but some inevitably end up on the table and the floor. This is in the form of chips so is easy to sweep up.
I wear a dust mask when necessary. Black walnut and makore are especially annoying to me and I use additional air flow around me when working with them. Living in Florida, I'm able to leave my garage door open most of the time, so any air-borne dust blows out the door.
I'm not unsympathetic with someone who is sensitive to dust, etc. One of the guys who worked in a shop I was in a couple of years ago finally had to go out on disability. He was already retirement age, so it wasn't a big deal for him. He really wanted to continue working in a shop, but just couldn't do it due to his sensitivity.
Good luck!Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
I said it was expensive! You asked for 6" solid flex. You did not specify a budget. I can't afford that either. I am using 4" flex from Wood craft that is $20 for 10'. I have most of my equipment on the same wall as my DC, so It can lay on the ground. I have a section with a quick disconnect and blast gate that I lay on the ground from the TS to the DC. I hook it up when I use, and kick it under the TS when not in use. My whole investment in hose is about $100.00. I'd love to have the dedicated stuff overhead but cant afford it. I don't do this for a livin. It gets the job done. Good luck and if you find it cheep let me know, I would love to know where you got it.
I was at my local woodcraft store looking at what they had, and it is in a catalog with the clear stuff that they sell online. They had a sample on the wall and indicated they could special order it. It was not cheap either. That is why I went with the clear plastic. I go by on a regular basis and I can get a part number for you if you still want the 6". It would be a special order item because they don't stock it. They offered to order it for me, but I went with the 4" clear and it's been fine.
You must be in Canada? There is a manufacturer in Indiana that makes a rubber and canvas very heavy smoooth interior flex tube. They advertise in Wood Digest. I will try to find the info later on and repost. I purchased about 20' of it a few years ago from a local ( Warren, MI ) blower supply, American Blower 586.771.7337 The stuff is indistructable, has about a 10 gauge wire helix.
Dave Koury
No, I'm in Midwest USA. Can't wait to get that info! We're talking 6inch diameter? Thanks.
I have found it at Mcmaster-carr or something similar. You can call them and tell them what you want. They should be able to direct you.
http://www.mcmaster.com
Masterduct is a manufacturer of that type of hose. Don't know if they will sell to individuals. But there is a lot of good information on their web site.
http://www.masterduct.com
Enjoy
I know Oneida carries the smooth 6" flex. AirHandling (http://www.airhand.com) may also carry the smooth 6" flex. Not sure on prices. 25' of flex sure is a lot of resistance even for smooth flex since it isn't very smooth when compared to ridged piping. You must have a pretty serious DC to work with that much flex and still deliver 800cfm.
--Rob
The only way to learn is to ask questions; not to put too fine a point on it, but I only had one question, and it's in the title of this thread.
And, to that end, customer service at Lee Valley Veritas got back to me with some very promising leads, and I think I have my answer. I'm signing off on this one, thanks all for your help. Here are my leads, happy woodworking to you all:
http://www.flexaust.com/industrial/application.asp?cat=2
http://www.hitechhose.com/products/products_results.php?application=Air+Ventilation%3A1%3A2&x=4&y=16
Why not use 6" diameter PVC S&D, cut to convenient lengths and linked with short pieces of affordable 6" flex hose to allow it to bend here and there? The PVC is cheaper and smoother inside than any flex hose.
That's an interesting site.
If you look carefully, few of the tools require 800 CFM ('don't know about you, but I don't have a 20" jointer). Most of the ones that do have two pick-up points, at 400 CFM each; e.g., tablesaw.
So one option is to use 2 4" ducts. Two 4" ducts have almost as much cross-section as a 6"; you can hook one up to each pick-up point, and run them both back to the blower.
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