The 24 tooth blade that came with my 12″ miter saw splinters out the exit cut of all it touches., and leaves a cut surface that should be planed or sanded before joined to anything.
So, I would like to replace it with a blade that does not blow out the exit cut in either solid or hardwood plywood.
A trip to the two big box stores nearby led me to two blades
– a Freud Avanti 96 T (ATB) “Ultra fine crosscut” blade, or…
– a Freud Diablo 96 T (TCG) (triple chop grind) blade “Ultra finish/laminate”
At home on the old Google reveals that they are both thin kerf blades. Freud states that the Avanti is especially good for “underpowered tools on the job site”.
I think I remember reading that thin kerf blades on miter saws leads to poor accuracy on the angle as the blade flexes if you have to sneak up on the exact cut-off length.
I’m now confused. I know that you guys are going to know the answer to this.
Does anyone know what the best (or pdg) blade is for fine, accurate cuts on the miter saw? It will be used both for hardwood and hardwood plywood in furniture making.
Mike D
Replies
Both blades will give you a much smoother cut than the blade you are using now. I have a 96 tooth Dewalt series 40 blade on my 12" saw and it cuts very nicely. I think If you stick with a name brand blade you will be fine. The more expensive blades like Forrest are very nice but I don't think there is as big a difference as there used to be. One advantage of blades like those from Forrest, CMT and the high end blades from Freud is that the teeth are bigger so they can be re-sharpened more often.
Good luck and look for a blade on sale.
Troy
It won't take much to improve on the 24T stock blade for the cuts you're trying make. FWIW, Freud offers 4 different lines of blades to consumers as far as I can tell...the Diablo and Avanti series are are their entry level and are pretty good. Their Industrial series offers more specialized blade choices, tighter tolerances, bigger teeth, etc., and are often on sale for around the same price as a comparable Diablo or Avanti.
I've had good results with 10" thin kerfs on a 1-3/4hp TS, but a 12" span is more likely to flex than a 10", plus crosscuts don't typically require as much power so I'd encourage you to look for a full kerf blade with a high tooth count (60 to 100 teeth).
A blade with a high tooth count and a Hi-ATB grind offers the lowest possible tearout of any other grind in most materials, but even a standard ATB grind from a top shelf blade like a Forrest, Ridge Carbide, CMT, Infinity, DeWalt's top line, Delta's top line, Amana, or Tenryu should work great.
Amazon has a 20% deal going...enter "BLDPROMO" at checkout. They also have a 20% instant discount on a power tool accessory (ie: blade) for a qualifying power tool offered by Amazon. You can get the Forrest DH12807125 Duraline HI-A/T 12" 80 Tooth 1" Arbor .125" Kerf Melimine & Plywood blade for ~ $112 shipped with the "BLDPROMO" code, and about $84 if you add something like the B&D 6v screwdriver for $14, bringing the total for both items to ~ $98 shipped. http://www.amazon.com/Forrest-DH12807125-Duraline-Melimine-Circular/dp/B000OMVJQ8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1195103730&sr=1-2
There are some other less expensive options. The CMT equivalent (CMT 210.096.12) would run $80 or $74 shipped with the same promos as above.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_hi/002-2128871-4211254?url=search-alias%3Dtools&field-keywords=cmt+12&x=0&y=0
If you're rather spend less, about the best bang for the buck going is a closeout deal on a Delta Industrial blade made by Leitz in Germany:
35-654 12" z80 ATB -Negative Hook- 1" bore full kerf $25 (~ $35 shipped)
http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB4&Number=3314621&fpart=&PHPSESSID=
HTH...good luck!
Edited 11/15/2007 7:30 am ET by Knotscott
Thanks for all the great input.
I've used Knotscott's promotion code to order a Forest 80 tooth blade that looks like it'll be just the ticket.
Very best regards to all for your knowledgeable advice.
Mike D :)
Edited 11/15/2007 12:10 pm ET by Mike_D
Hi Mike,
If you're looking at Forrest blades don't forget to look at their " chopmaster" blade. They're specifically designed for CMS and SCMS. I have 3 that I routinely rotate for my SCMS that's in use in my production cabinet shop. Best blade I've found for that purpose. They also last quite a while between sharpenings.
Paul
Hi Paul,
What I ordered is the Duraline High AT 80 tooth blade.
If I had known about the Chopmaster blade I might well have gone that route - same price as the Duraline, and available next day delivery.
Thanks for the input.
Mike D
Mike - Either should give great performance, but I think you'll find that the Duraline will excel in plywood and at splinter free cuts in hardwood due to the slicing action of it's 40 degree bevel of the teeth.
That's a great blade too, Mike. It just has a positive hook angle whereas the chopmaster has a negative hook angle that makes it especially more suited for a SCMS or radial arm type. This tooth geometry helps keep the work down and against the fence plus gives a cut with minimum or no tearout on all four sides of your stock.
I would recommend Forrest sharpening service when it comes time. Independent services can't seem to do as good a job on Forrest blades for some reason. At least this is what I've found.
Paul
Mike, the Ultra Fine Crosscut blade is a great blade (I own a 10" for my table saw) but a 96-tooth blade is going to slow you down a bit in thicker stock or especially on mitered or beveled cuts. It's OK, just something you need to be aware of. I don't know the Avanti model, but if it's like the regular Freud Ultr Fine, it polishes the edges as it cuts. I view that as a specialty thing and only use that blade on end grain that's going to be exposed.
Morning Mike...
The 24 T blade is nothing more than a rough cut-off blade. When I had a 10" SCMS I used a 60 T and now use a 72 Freud on my 12" SCMS. I don't like a very high tooth count as my SCMS gets the call on all cross-cuts and it also used to cut-down of all rough stock that comes in my shop as I have 12' extensions. The high tooth count is too slow with my mixed uses as trim is not necessarily my forte.
I have used Freud.. Amana.. Tenyru.. etc. All work fine if they are sharp. Just be sure you get a blade made for SCMS or CMS as they will have negative hook as opposed to positive as a TS blade. The negative hook pushes the stock down and towards the fence.
Don't be concerned with TK on a miter. I have found only one blade that is full for the miter saws. I thought that TK flexing was a major problem as my Freud was leaving a gap on angle cuts. I purchased two other brand TK's and same thing. Something wasn't right as all the TK's I used left the identical gap.
The problem was solved by buying a 6-pack for several "southern trim carpenters" I know. They all told me the same thing and it turned out to be the correct answer. You either know or you don't.
The problem was not the TK flexing. The problem was I wasn't holding the stock tightly enough against the fence. Angle cuts create extra side force as the teeth tend to push the stock as they meet in what my locals refer to as "walking the fence" which leaves the gap.
The solution is to keep the stock very firm to the fence and slow down the feed rate from what you use on a straight cross-cut. They enjoyed the 6-pack and chuckles that got from my ignorance. :>)
Good luck...
Sarge..
"Just be sure you get a blade made for SCMS or CMS as they will have negative hook...." Sarge, my friend, for a regular CMS (as opposed to a slider) you don't need a negative hook. On Charle's recommendation I got a Diablo 1280X blade for my Bosch 12" CMS. It has a low hook angle (7°) yes, but not a negative one. Just to clarify. ;-)forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Afternoon Jamie...
Thanks for the clarification. Did he mention "why" negative hook is recommended for SCMS and not CMS as your still cutting with the teeth moving toward the fence? That has my curiousity stirred as I don't have a CMS and never have, but I'm still curious to the reasoning.
Come out from hiding places Charles... ha.. ha...
Regards...
Sarge..
"Did he mention 'why' negative hook is recommended for SCMS and not CMS..."
I don't think negative hook is disrecommended for CMS, it's just not required. The reason you want negative hook with a SCMS is that it reduces the tendency for the saw to self-feed if you do a climb cut.
-Steve
Afternoon Steve...
I was under the impression a negative hook is less aggressive and pushes stock down and toward the fence. I related the CMS and SCMS to the same basic principle in blade action. With the exception that on a SCMS you slide the blade forward when cutting stock that is wider than the blade diameter.
And I understand the climb cut. So... I would still ask the question "why" is it recommended for SCMS and not we will say "necessarily" for the other? Is the climb cut the sole reason or is there more?
If that is indeed the case, I have steered several in the wrong direction over the years for which I would wish to apologize for doing so. :<)
And I would really want to know the truth, the entire truth and nothing but the truth as to not mis-inform in the future.... ? Perhaps that is the reason.. again I just don't know but would love too. :>)
Thanks for your reply.. my curiosity is up even more at this point! Sarge..
Edited 11/15/2007 5:59 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Edited 11/15/2007 6:00 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
"I was under the impression a negative hook is less aggressive and pushes stock down and toward the fence."
It's less aggressive, and it pushes stock down more than a positive hook does, but it pushes towards the fence less than a positive hook does. As far as the forces, though, I don't think the difference really amounts to much in practical terms. I think it's basically a safety issue. A CMS can't self-feed, so it doesn't matter what you use there, but a SCMS can, so it does matter there.
-Steve
Thanks again for the reply Steve. Given the fact that a positive pushes toward the fence more than a negative, what you say makes sense. I was under the illusion that the negative pushed toward the fence and a positive was neutral.
And frankly, I am not aware of how I came to that conclusion. I must have mis-interpretted or mis-read the info I have read regarding the technicalities. I am still open to any further information if there is any.
The bad news is I have mis-informed several over the years, at least those with CMS. The good news is "now I know", or at least I think I know. ha.. ha...
Regards...
Sarge..
At the risk of stating the obvious, I think the positive vs negative is more important with a RAS. The positive more easily jams the saw by pulling the saw into the wood
Morning ...
Thanks for seconding Steve's explanation, Tink.. Looks as though I have a little re-reading to do, well... after I finish the bed I started two weeks ago (almost ready to finish) and the two chest of drawers that stock sits in the wood rack waiting for some divine guidance. :>)
Regards...
Sarge..
for fine, accurate cuts on the miter saw?
I had to reply.. I have a really cheeep! Chop saw I use.. It cuts more than OK.. Blade that came with it and has cut ALOT of 'sticks'..
When was the last time you replaced the fence.. A clean cut fence will improve everything.. In fact I have several with cuts I use for common angles or if I'm lazy I just screw on a new fence board and cut fresh!
Ah,
Sometimes we forget the basics! A new sacrificial fence is in the making. Thanks for reminding.
Mike D
Thanks I'm not that stupid OR that smart.. I hope it works!
Hey Mike,
I have two different fine cut 12" blades for my older Dewalt (10 year old) miter saw, a Forrest Chopmaster and a Freud LU85, both of which are full kerf (1/8") blades.
The LU85 hands down has the very best of the best cut, but the down side of this blade is the way the teeth are ground and the lack of side clearance between the teeth and plate (the lack of side clearance 'polishes' the cut), the blade just sucks the power out of the saw. I just use the blade for smaller cuts in moldings.
The Chopmaster is a nice compromise, between the two blades. If I had to rate the two, the LU85 would get a A+ and Chopmaster a B+ in smaller moldings (~1x2), anything wider or thicker the scores turn to Chopmaster A and LU85 C.
Good luck
Hi Bob,
Based on your input, Forest Girl's, and many other's, it's becoming apparent that there is no "best" blade - it depends on what you are doing.
But, based on the input that we've gotten here, I now have a basis for picking and choosing between the huge selection of blades now available on the market.
When I can get back to the workshop tomorrow, I think that I'm going to find that the 80 tooth blade that I've ordered is going to become my main blade for cabinet and furniture making, my old 25 tooth blade (with a sacrificial backboard) is going to be my construction lumber blade, and my 96 tooth, thin kerf, Freud Diablo blade (which I got at home depot) will be my moldings blade.
Mike D
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