I’m a high school woodshop teacher in the fortunate position of being able to replace my aging 8″ Delta jointer. I need a very heavy duty machine capable of withstanding heavy daily use, and the kind of abuse that only adolescent boys can inflict. Also, being kinda anal-retentive about precision, and wanting to instill the same into my students, I need a precise, well engineered machine. My knee-jerk reaction is to replace my old Delta warhorse with a new Delta DJ-20. Or possibly a Powermatic #60-B. The Steel City “Industrial Jointer” also looks worthwhile. Any thoughts, opinions, advice?
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Replies
The Grizzly 8" jointer gets high reviews on this board and it's won an award by the editors of Fine Woodworking. Plus it's on sale right now for a $100 off. check their website for details.
Klandin,
you simply must go with Grizzly's jointer.. a great piece that I've run 50,000 bd.ft. of hardwood thru without a single hick-up.
Whatever you do buy the spiral head!
What a great idea.. makes changing the blades a moments worth of work, you don't need to change the whole blade if you hit something, just rotate cutter heads 90 degrees in the spot where something was hit (4 sides on a cutter)
That plus it's so much quieter than a regular head that I can't believe it, frankly I want one.. And if you ever work with highly figured wood like burls or knots etc.. it slices them off so smooth without any tearout you won't believe it!
Go Grizzly. My local community college (Red Rocks) has 2 of them and they have held up great. Currently, I think they have over 500 students (mostly hobbiest) taking their woodworking classes and the machines perform perfectly. I currently own their 10 inch jointer with the SC... and I love it.
Plus, I think you can get 2 8 inchers for the price of 1 delta pr PM.
You might also consider buying the Grizzly with parallelogram design as it will likely withstand a school environment needing fewer adjustments and less shimming (in case a offensive tackle decides to eat his lunch while his butt is parked on the outfeed table).Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
OMG, can you imagine?
I agree, I'd go with a parallelogram design. Fortunately, there are alot of choices these days, at good prices.
One thing I don't like about the Grizzly parralelogram jointer is the quality of the "OFF" switch which is not clipped into its receptacle but just screwed. I had a bad experience with it. The switch unscrewed itself with the vibration off the jointer while in use. I had to trip of the breaker to turn the jointer off !!! This might not be the kind of experience you are looking for in a classroom.
Also this switch is the kind you need to turn on the right direction in order to reset it. An unexperience (or clumsy) user might try to turn it in the wrong direction and actually partially unscrewed it.
Edited 6/8/2007 11:48 am ET by eweber2
Good to know. I have the 8" Grizzly (dovetail design) with a spiral cutterhead, and have not had that problem.-mGlaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Let me join the Grizzley bandwagon. I've had one for about 4 months now. It is rock solid. Very good fit and finish. I think it will take whatever your students can dish out and come back for more. I don't have the spiral head and can't speak about how well that would hold up to the students.
Good Luck, George
You don't stop laughing because you grow old. You grow old because you stop laughing. - Michael Pritchard
I second what frenchy said . Grizzly with spiral cutterhead. Also, teach the kids to respect the woodworking machinery otherwise they will trash any kind you buy. Good luck.
Paul
Morning Klandin...
I will join the others on the Grizzly. I have the Steel City 8" which is excellent, but it basically the same as the Grizzly with a higher price. I intentionally paid the extra asking price for two reasons...
(1) The Steel City has a 5" x 48" fence which is the tallest and longest on the market.
(2) The Steel City has 5 year warranty and the Griz 1 year.
So the Griz for your kids would be the ticket IMO. I seriously doubt they would know why they are better served with a longer and taller fence and probably wouldn't care if they did know as they are just passing through on their journey. ha.. ha...
Regards...
Sarge.. jt
After much research, asking and gnashing of teeth, I chose the General 8" over the DJ-20. I liked the parallelogram adjustment idea but just couldn't fork out that kind of money for Taiwanese. I've never regretted my choice.
Almost everyone has weighed in for the Grizzly, and I can't tell you firsthand about how I like it. But it must be good, or you wouldn't hear so much in favor of it.
I can tell you about the Powermatic 8" parallel jointer. Got it three months ago, and am very pleased with it. Long bed, (84") is one of the points I bought it on, easy to adjust also. I've already run about 2000 bf of cherry, and it's been a real pleasure.
Is yours the PJ882? I got one a year ago but haven't used it much yet. It seems really good but I don't have it hooked up to dust collection yet -- a must.
Sorry it took so long to reply. Yes, it is the 882. I really like the long bed feature.
I think that dust collection would be a must with it. I forgot to turn my collector on once, and had plenty of dust coming out to greet me.
I think you'll find you have a great machine there.
I went from an 250lb., 8" Woodtek to a 900lb., 10" Oliver jointer. Longer bed than most 8" jointers, with an American Baldor 3hp. motor; triple belt drive.
Here's some observations that might help you consider spending a few dollars more to have a heavy machine with the ability to change to a Helical cutterhead when funds allow.
http://toolseeker.com/WdWkMac/Jointers/4240.asp?var1=4240
Bill
Edited 6/9/2007 10:47 pm ET by BilljustBill
I have a DJ-20 that I bought used about 4 years ago; I should check the plate, but it was probably made late 1990's. Very solid machine.
That being said, if you intend to purchase new, I'd check the current build quility, since Delta has reportedly been making machinery off-shore.
I don't own grizzly so take this how you will. I know a lot of folks are in favor of them but... in my research grizzly notoriously gets poor reviews "in general" with most of its tools. If you look at the whole spectrum of tool reviews grizzly is usually gets very poor ratings. There is a reason they are drastically lower in price. That's not to say it won't hold up and serve you well. But if you look at big shops/schools etc, what do you usually see - General (canadian), Powermatic, or OLD Delta/Rockwell. Now I'm not a big fan of new Delta but it still has it's appeal. I just know that in my experience friends who have tried grizzly all have been disappointed, yet everyone here loves them??
When I buy I look at it this way... example spend 800-1000 for a grizzly tool or 1500-2000 and get a general/powermatic/laguna etc. Yes it's a lot more money but history dictates the machine and motor will perform and outlast my lifetime. I do this for enjoyment I don't want a tool that will under perform or be a problem. Bottem line buy the tool you'll turn on and enjoy using.
MIKE
You've expressed my reservations exactly. Everybody here seems to love the Grizz, but I can't quite get past the facts that a) You get what you pay for. b) At least to my knowledge, Grizzly is just another of the off shore-asian importer who's machines are made in the exact same factory, to the exact same specs, as all the other cheap off-shore knock off brands. Of course (sadly) the same can be said of Delta's recent crop of machines. c) They have no long term track record, and I'm in this for the long haul.
So what to do? What to do? What I really want is some good old heavy American iron. But where to get it? The General is probably a good approximation, but it did not do so well in FWW's most recent tool trials. SCMI would be awesome but that is way outside of my budget. The new batch of Olivers look very attractive, but once again, are they still as good as they used to be?
KL
The General and Oliver are both made in Asia.
John White
But Asian made does not mean poor quality. They make products to whatever spec you want. In fact many of their products exceed american made quality. It's just that you see poor quality/poor design married to lowest cost manufacturing.
Many american engineers will tell you the asian products are far superior if the design and manufacturing costs are met.
Too many companies are opting for the cheapest way out. Asian manufacturing is just supplying what the corporation is asking for.
MIKE
John - General International are made in asia. General are made in Canada.
I was responding to a comment that the General jointer we tested here at the magazine was a Canadian made machine, it was in fact a General International and was made in Asia.
John W.
Klandin,
Not to muddy up the waters too much already but what are your thoughts on Northfield? Are they truly the only "American Made" power tool manufacturer left? Is that 8" or 12" jointer worth the money?
My understanding is that the body is cast in Wisconsin. The company itself is out of Minnesota. I share your thoughts about Grizzly. Don't own any machines myself as I am trying very hard to avoid that purchase. It is costly to purchase non-Asian machines. However, I just bought an "Italian Stallion" (as they are known by some here) Centauro Bandsaw from Minimax and I am EXTREMELY happy with what I paid for. Would be curious to read your opinion and thoughts. Or anyone else for that matter.
Regards,
Koa
Klandin, you and Mike are also speaking for me. I have decided to move into a higher level of woodworking and want to purchase an 8" jointer and a 16 to 18" bandsaw. (probably followed by a new table saw which will likely be SawStop). The Grizzly catalog is a great marketing tool --- better than the other mfgrs offer. The forum here seems to love the Grizzly, and for me being in kind of a remote area it would be very simple to just order one. However, I also have heard lots of horror stories about Griz having major tolerance problems etc. etc. and having to ship the unit back ---much more hassle than I want. I really don't care about spending more, but also can't justify getting too carried away with the cost. It would be nice to find a brand that gives you what you pay for, no more no less, with consistency and reliability. It is really difficult to separate the bs and hype from the facts on these purchases. Ed
I've worked in industrial/marine/aerospace manufacturing all my life (30 years now). The quality of the machines produced today is excellent, no matter if they're made in Asia or elsewhere. Why? Computers. Computer Numerial Controlled machinery is virtually the only metalworking machinery in use today and CNC machinery has elevated machining quality and dramatically reduced variability in machined products. This translates into consistant quality. ISO standards is another reason. Many of these factories in Asia are certified ISO 9001 factories and IMO...THAT is important and more relevant than where it's made at. This ISO cert. means that the manufacturing processes are stable, standardized and controlled, which minimizes manufacturing variability (tolerance) even more, and generally provides for a quality manufactured product both in machine work and in metallurgy. So these days you get quality steel castings and excellent machine work. Motors are excellent. Finishes are excellent.
Lastly, jointers are just not overly complex machines, they've been making them a long time, and there's virtually no difference between the major brands in design or fit and finish IMO. Sure, EVERY company has the occasional lemon, but it's very rare anymore. Most likely whatever you choose will serve you very well. Pick a reputable brand, buy it. You're much more likely to have issues with shipping damage than you are with manufacturing issues with a jointer. When you get your machine, check it for shipping damage, then set it up properly, make sure the tables are flat, and enjoy just how good of a machine you get these days for the money. Trust me, it's never been so good!!!
PS....spend the money and get the Shelix cutter too. You will NEVER regret THAT decision.
Jeff
Morning Jeff...
I personally think you have hit the nail on the head.. in this case maybe multiple strikes. I have a penchant for going over these machines and comparing at the Atlanta International Woodworking Fair every two years when nearly all manufacturers have them lined up side by side. And that includes Grizzly which doesn't make the more common local shows geared for WW's instead of manufacturers and distributors as the IWF.
The jointers are all close in quality these days as they are simply designed machines as you stated. Not much you can do these days to "trick one out" to gain an advantage with the exception of adding the more efficient cutter-heads.
And I will add that the straight knives will cut just as many board feet as the new technology so anyone with them should not rule their machine as obsolete. That would be a mistake, IMO. They have done their job for many years and for those that have them as I do, they will continue to serve with no drop in quality of finished projects as the difference in cut quality can be absorbed by the craftsman in control of the project.
And I find differences in some of the machines that warrant the higher prices, just not the jointers and planers at the current moment IMO. Band-saws fall in a different category at least for the moment. Grizzly had come a long way there with their offerings from those first machines, but I don't think they are quite there yet in that category. But they are in the jointer and planer lines as I personally see it.
So... I personally see the difference in prices as more of an over-head thing and the fact that if you can ask a higher price based on past reputation. By all means do so if the public is willing to pay it. That's business. If someone feels more secure having a proven brand name on the side of a machine regardless of the fact that it may be of no better quality than the other guy's machine they didn't examine due to what-ever.... then by all means this is America, it's their money and that is "freedom of choice" as we are so lucky to have.
From my observations of the various lines of jointers.. they will all joint stock and I haven't seen one of the current offerings that appears to be so bad a quality that it will fall to the floor in pieces anytime in one's natural life-time. And of course that is just my observation and someone else may have specific data that disputes it. I just haven't heard of anyone that has yet and won't hold my breath till they do.
I'm just going to keep running stock through my non Delta.. PM.. General.. Laguna and I have a feeling my son will in-herit it when I turn off the lights in my shop for the last time. :>)
Regards...
Sarge.. jt
Sarge,I tend to agree with you save on one point.When I bought my jointer, I was keen to have the carbide cutterhead. I was tired of changing knives, fooling with adjustments and jigs. The advantage I find with the carbide is that the cutters last much longer than HSS, are easier to change and require little adjustment.For me, this was worth the cost (which was probably only ~$100-150). If I had a well made jointer with HSS knives and was otherwise happy, I doubt that I would trade it in (although I might try and upgrade the head, depending on the cost) for carbide. When buying new,I would.Just my 2p,Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Morning Glaucon...
And I agree Doc... just stating that the "sky won't fall on your head" if you don't have the newer style cutter-heads. On my Steel City (which I intentionally chose to get the 5" x 48" fence), the knives are double sided and you basically just drop them in as SC designed it to avoid all the fooling around with the jig.
Even with the old 6" Sunhill it took much less time for me to change than most people spend seeking the "holy grail edge" on a chisel or plane blade with $600 worth of sharpening machines, stones, jigs, etc. The AA guys go through less steps in a recovery program. :>)
From everything I've heard the new cutter-heads are really a time saver changing blades and give excellent cuts. But.... I doubt I will ever have one in use in my shop at this point as the HSS's have been working fine "for me" since the first jointer I purchased in 1975.
I wouldn't want my wife without a cell phone in her vehcile as it is a wonderful tool if used properly. But.... I am a hold-out on a cell phone personally and hope to have inscribed on my tomb-stone that I made it through life fine without one. ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
Regards...
Sarge. jt
Edited 6/16/2007 1:55 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
Hello again Sarge.I always seem to hit my first knot about 10 bf after changing the knives.As for cell phones... well, once upon a time they were a godsend. I could leave the hospital, get on the 20 miles of I-95 without a pay phone and drive home from the hospital without having to turn around whenever I got paged. I could go hiking, fishing, biking and running knowing that I could answer a page and be in contact without needing to be near a land-line.Now, they are a PTA. People call for all kinds of silly reasons (which is annoying but maybe just my pet peeve). What really po's me is the rude behavior of people in restaraunts, libraries- and the drivers...Never have so few talked so much, annoyed so many and said so little.(Whew! I feel better already...)Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Thanks guys. This jointer discussion has been both informative and instructional. At times a bit more heated than I ever could have imagined, but always interesting. Based on what I've read here and elsewhere, I've decided to (GULP!) go with the griz. It still feels like a risk, but at least now it's an informed risk. The one feature that most excites me is the reasonably priced helical head with carbide inserts. This alone makes the griz very attractive to me. It should run quieter. That'll be nice. It should run longer before it gets dull. A big plus in an environment where down time is a very bad thing. And when it does need a "sharpening" all that I'll need is an allen wrench and whatever few minutes it ought to take to rotate each insert ninety degrees. This is a very good thing. Plus when one of the inserts gets nicked (not that any of my students would ever do that!), all I'll need to do is rotate the offended insert and voila! If I can, I'm going to try to talk the powers that be into springing for the 10" G0480. Otherwise I'll settle for the 8" G0593. Thanks again to everyone who threw in their 2p, and happy saw dust to all.
I have the G0480 (10" with the SC) and it is awesome! If you can swing it, you will not be sorry.
You'd have to pry my Grizzly jointer (a 12") from my cold, dead hands. ;) Enjoy yours. The carbide cutterhead is real slick.
" Never have so few talked so much, annoyed so many and said so little"
That's a good one Glaucon. Worth remembering. :)
Paul
I'm afraid I caged it from Churchill (my apologies, Winnie...)Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Evening Doc..
We have a young man at work and his fiancee is totally addicted to the cell phone. She calls her sisters each morning after the alarm goes off before setting foot on the floor to see what they are doing which is getting the kids off to school "just as" when she checked the morning before.
The show-stopper is he gets a call every evening and answers, De Jesus residence! And the familiar voice from his fiancee replies with the latest breaking.. earth shattering.. godly important news that just couldn't wait.... "Hi honey, I'm pulling in your drive-way"......
And he is going to marry her anyway... Go figure! ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
Regards...
Sarge.. jt
Apparently love is deaf, as well as blind...Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
edsea,
It seems like it's too good to be true doesn't it? I mean weren't you taught that you always got what you paid for?
Well I thought that I would only need a little use out of my Grizzly jointer, I didn't realize when I bought it that nearly 50,000 bd. ft. of hardwood would go across it. So I took a chance and bought one.. heck I've wasted much more money on things in my life so what the heck.
Am I ever glad I did.. what a great company to work with..
It's taught me a valuable lesson.. never to assume.. simply because things aren't priced at the top end doesn't mean that they aren't great values..
MY Grizzly gets stuff flat.. you can't ask for much more than that, well durability and I've shown that in spades..
REALLY????????????
I'll mind my manners, and simply ask you where did you get your data from in your 'research'?
Show me the data!!!
Jeff
As I stated I own no grizzly products. I also stated that my opinions were based on friends who had purchased grizzly products and tool reviews in: Fine Woodworking, Wood, American Woodworker etc etc etc. After you read review after review after review after review... and they consistantly find fault with a particular companies product you just start to make assumptions.
My opinions are no means based on double blinded, placebo based broad spectrum hard science. They are based on economics and public opinion. I may be missing the boat, maybe I could go out and buy a whole truck load of grizzly equipment for a fraction of the cost of the other guys. But that wasen't the question. The question wanted peoples opinion on what they liked and what they would buy. I simply gave my opinion - nothing more.
MIKE
I have a different view from yours.I would say that about 5 years ago, your statement about Grizzly quality was accurate, more or less. What I have noticed is that in the past few years Grizzly has been getting better marks for quality, improved customer service and magazine reviews. This has been particularly noticeable in certain tools, especially jointers, DCs and lately TS.I own an 8" Grizzly jointer. It is my only Grizzly tool. I also own tools from Delta, DeWalt, Steel City and other manufacturers. I would not say that Grizzly makes the best of everything. I would say, based on persoanl experience, and by reviewing what has been posted here and elsewhere, that Grizzly makes a very good 8" jointer and that it offers the best bang for the buck in this size/price point, for this tool.That's the way I tend to buy tools: one at a time. I don't think that any manufacturer has the best in class for every tool, I do think that for moderate priced 8" jointers that Grizzly does.Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Agreed. If the decision is that hard to make.... try this:
Contact Grizzly
See they have a customer in your area that has purchased the one you are looking for
Schedule an appointment to go see it in action
I've used a Delta 8", an older MiniMax 12" and a PM 12"... I own a Grizzly 10 jointer, with the SC, and I love it and I would recommend it to anyone.
Mike,
I'm the guy who does much of the tool review work for Fine Woodworking and you apparently haven't been reading our reviews of Grizzly tools in the past couple of years. They have been consistently getting quite good reviews from us.
John White, Shop Manager, Fine Woodworking Magazine
John, what brands should we avoid based on your experience?
Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Edited 6/13/2007 10:04 am by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
I'm sorry, but I can't give you a direct answer to your question. The policy here at the magazine is not to give out our personal opinions on tools or brands beyond what we say in the tool review articles. This is to avoid any accusations that we are personally biased toward one brand over another.
John White
John,
I needed to change my 8" jointer from the " average standard" size of 65" long to a longer bed for jointing long stock headed for future 8' long wooden columns.
When comparing long bed 8" jointers, I saw the Asian 10" Oliver jointer's motor, weight, and overall length was more than the high end 8" jointers, but the difference wasn't that much. I was wondering if FWW has reviews or comparisons of Oliver's 4240, 10" jointer and other 8" & 10" jointers?
Thanks, Bill
We did a review of 8" jointers about a year ago, we haven't ever done a review of larger machines and don't have one planned.
The Grizzly 8" jointer has a longer than average 75" table and came out as one of the best machines. A table that long is easily capable of giving a good cut on 8' long stock. With a little help and/or outfeed and infeed supports, if the stock is heavy, you could straighten 8' stock on the machine you have.
Even a small machine can straighten long stock as long as you can control the overhanging weight.
John W.
I'll have to argue with your last point John. If the wood isn't on one of the tables during the whole cut, the board won't come out straight. It'll come out straightER but not straight
John-I jumped over from another thread (the TS power 1.75 vs 3hp question) and this response reminded me of question I have for you, specifically. Have you guys in the FWW shop looked at any of the steel city table saws up close yet? (in a 'new tool review' situation)I know often when a tool doesn't get covered in an article, you will later look at it and provide an opinion in context with the article.
(ex- the woodpecker router table was reviewed after the router table article, if my memory serves me correctly)I'm a bit surprised to see so few steel city tools reviewed, since the magazine made a pretty big deal about the company when it started up. I know you guys can only look at so many tools, and criteria have to be established (such as with this jointer question)... but I'm really curious to see how the SS table saws stack up against the PM2000, saw-stop, and grizzly that were favored in the 3hp TS article. Also, I am hoping to see an article comparing all the new 'hybrid' saws that have hit the market lately...-sorry to get off topic, when buy an 8" jointer it will be the grizzlythanks-Vincent
We are just finishing up an article reviewing hybrid saws, it will probably be in the next issue. We have a Steel City 10" cabinet saw but it had problems, so a review of the saw has been delayed.
John W.
Thanks John,I appreciate the quick response- I look to fine woodworking for the most informed and helpful product testing in the industry. The work you guys do can save woodworkers like me thousands of dollars and countless frustration when it comes to making good investments in tools. After all, these machines are EXPENSIVE! A few minutes reading one of your articles can mean the difference between years of dependability vs. years of headaches. I'll look forward to those articles and tests!vincent
Morning Mike...
Since this thread was asking about 8" jointers specifically, what reviews did you read that gave the Grizzly 8" jointer a bad call? And who did you speak to personally that has it or used it and then gave it a bad rap? And I'm not asking about "reviews of Grizzly tools in general".. just specifics on purchasing the jointer as that was the question.
And since in big schools, shops, etc. you usually see the General, Delta and Power-matic... what specific reason would one pay more for those jointers than the Grizzly if purchasing a 8" jointer TODAY?
I agree in older established shops that have been around for awhile, you will see General.. Delta and Power-matic. And they will continue to be around for a long time as they were extremely well built when they were purchased!
But.. if I were a shop.. school.. etc, opening today why should I pay more for those current brand floor models than a Grizzly? Where's the beef located in the price difference and quality of that particular machine. Just for fun.. throw in the Grizzly 20" planer for comparison. Why should I buy the 20" from PM.. General.. and Delta compared to the Grizzly 20"?
Do you suppose the possibility of a lower price with just as good a quality exist if.... ?
A company is intelligent enough to reduce it's over-head by centralizing to only 3 key locations in the U.S... shipping direct and eliminating the "middle man" could have a price lower than those that bank on their past reputation.. spend tons on advertising, shows, promotions middle management,reps and distributors?
A question that should be considered if you have actually looked at what is currently available on the market and compared throughly without the stigma of what "was" in the past. Your father's Chevrolet is not necessarily the same one you will purchase on a sales floor today, IMO.
Regards...
Sarge.. jt
Edited 6/13/2007 12:29 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
Edited 6/13/2007 12:56 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
I have a Grizzly 8" jointer that I bought 6 or 8 years ago. The beds have always been significantly out of plane. When I originally bought the tool, I didn't really know enough to realize I had a problem, and by the time I figured it out, the warranty had run out. I have never asked Grizzly to make it right, and I don't know what they would say if I did. I've managed to get the tool to perform reasonably well by spending a lot of time shimming the beds. So long as I don't fiddle too much with the bed height, it works. At some point I took the infeed bed off and found several large pits on one of the machined surfaces that the bed slides on. I am still amazed that Grizzly let that leave their factory. I have a Grizzly 18" bandsaw as well. Just about everything that can break, has broken, including the cast metal part that the guides mount to and the cast metal part that the upper wheel mounts to. The magnetic switch failed. It vibrates badly. Resawing is a nighmare, if not an impossibility.
In my opinion, Grizzly achieves low prices by cutting corners in places that your'e not likely to notice for a long time. With the bandsaw in particular, critical pieces are made of pot metal, and it fatigues and breaks over time. I'm not sure those sorts of latent problems get flagged in FWW tests. FWW reviews look at how the tool works today; they have no way of evaluating how often you'll curse the tool 5 years from now.
My tools are more than 5 years old, and I understand that Grizzly's quality is improving. They have great customer service. However, based on my 0 for 2 track record with them, I will NEVER buy another tool from them and recommend that others steer well clear. If Grizzly is all you can afford, use hand tools.
(warning...that last bit was a JOKE)
I'm sorry to hear of your problems with Grizzly machines. I've had very good luck with their equipment, and have been a big advocate of their products. However, I almost always buy the upper end of the product line. If you don't mind my asking, which model bandsaw did you buy?
Jeff
Thanks, everyone, for your condolences. My post was meant only as a counterpoint to the general level of enthusiasm on this thread for Grizzly tools. It is admittedly based on only 2 tools that are both 5 or 6 years old. Still, since 0% of the tools that I bought from them have performed acceptably, I thought it was worth adding my experience. I see no reason not to hold Grizzly responsible for the crap that they used to sell, even if they're getting better now.
I don't recall the model #s of either tool, but my bandsaw was the top of the line 18" at the time. It has rounded wheel covers, and I know that they've introduced a bunch of new models with square covers since then. They only sold one model of 8" jointer at the time.
I recently bought a cyclone dust collector. The Grizzly looked good on paper and was a lot cheaper than Oneida, particularly given the shipping cost to the west coast where I live. Choosing the Oneida 2hp was a no-brainer for me given my track record with Grizzly.
"...It is admittedly based on only 2 tools that are both 5 or 6 years old..."
Don't worry, only fools would expect you to keep buying Grizzly based on the experience you've had.Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Thanks for the reply. Given the experiences you had previously with Grizzly, I would have done exactly the same. Like you, I do not tolerate poorly made equipment.I recently added a 24" double drum sander to my shop. I've also upgraded my bandsaw to a larger machine with dual 4" dust ports. I am currently using a Jet 1-1/2 HP canister DC unit with a trash can prestage collector. While the Jet DC has performed very well, with the new equipment, my Jet DC is inadequate. I needed more capacity. Given the large number of positive reviews on these forums, I drove to Harbor Freight to buy their 2 HP DC but after looking at it, I couldn't bring myself to buy such a 'lightly' built machine, to put it politely. So I decided it was time to transition to a cyclone.I ordered the Grizzly Cyclone dust collector after comparing it to the Oneida, the Penn State Industries, and the Clearvue Cyclone. I would have gone with Oneida but the cost of shipping added too much to the cost. I liked the Clearvue and was especially impressed with the video showing their product in use, but couldn't convince myself to buy a plastic cyclone. Clearvue had FREE shipping and the basic machine would have been cheaper than the Grizzly. But I was afraid it would have been less robust than the metal units and the possibility of static electricity buildup was also a concern. Grizzly had quite a bit of documentation on their cyclone products. Given my previous positive experiences with Grizzly, I was comfortable going with their product. I would be very interested in your impressions on the Oneida unit you purchased. Please post a review of your cyclone after using it enough to get a feel for it. Thanks.Best Regards....Jeff
Morning Warren...
I think the key to your Griz jointer problem lies within the statement you made about purchasing 6-8 years ago. 6-8 years ago Griz didn't have the same jointers they have today. There have been considerable improvements with the jointer line to the point if it's very good.
You didn't say when you purchased the BS, but the same could be said if it was 6-8 ago. But... even though they have made a number of improvements over the last 3 years with the BS... they are still not to the point I would purchase one. I looked at the Griz BS line and about every other competitor before purchasing a Steel City 18" last fall.
The Griz BS line is headed in the right direction.. but is short of arriving at this point, IMO. Sorry you had a problem, but timing in your case may have played a large role in it's cause.
Regards...
Sarge.. john thompson
WarrenClemans
Let me jump in here and state that the Grizzly stuff I've purchased has been superb.. I've been buying for about 6 years now and would buy again in a heartbeat.. they've always bent over backwards to help me and 95% of the time the stuff is perfect right out of the box.. the other 5% was due to damage during shipping.. Even that when I called them they offered several ways to solve the issue and let me pick which way I wanted to use..
As it turned out I had them send me the parts.. they did so next day air with nothing more than my phone call.. no documents to fill out, no required pictures, or forms, just "how can I help?" and "is that satisfactory?" ..
(I have about 9 major pieces of equipment)
Well Warren, it just doesn't mean a whole helluva lot if somebody else has Grizzly machines that they like and that seem to be performing well. I'm not sure how you deftly recover from your purchases. It sounds like the machines need work at a machine shop and that might not even be enough.
Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
I might be in the minority here, but my 10 year old DJ-20 gets high marks for ease of use, accuracy and construction. If anything, its too heavy for it's mobile base.
I have several Grizzly tools and love all of them, but Delta take the lead here. In a small (20x40) one man cabinet and furniture shop, I need mobile tools that work well. Despite the weight, it and my 20 yr old 14" bandsaw are great tools.
I hear ya on the mobile base factor. My shop is just a tad larger than yours, so the lack of room needs to be adjustable. My unisaw is the only tool that's not mobile, so everything else slides around to their respective places.
Check out this video. I bought a Grizzly 8" jointer after taking a wood working class. I have had a 6" Delta for 15 years, boy what a difference.
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