Replies

1. 
   UncleDunc | Jan 08, 2003 06:13am | #1

   For the use that a carving board gets, it doesn't make a bit of difference. It will break or be lost in a move or accidentally get stuck in the diswasher and delaminate or have some other accident long before it begins to wear out. Pick the side that you think looks best.

   For serious meat cutting, end grain is best, but at that point you're not really talking about an easily portable cutting board anymore. Kind of like the distinction they used to make between portable and luggable with the earliest portable computers.

2. 
   Shepherd1800 | Jan 08, 2003 05:01pm | #2

   The surface on the outside of the tree should be the surface of your cutting board, it will last slightly longer and is more durable.  Endgrain of course would last best.

    

   Stephen Shepherd

   http://www.ilovewood.com

1. 
   LeeGrinding1 | Jan 08, 2003 07:58pm | #3

   Why is that, Stephen?

   To me it would seem the difference is insignificant but if (Im waxing philosophical here) one side were better than another I'd take the inside surface. The latewood is slightly harder than the early wood and the inside would have more growth rings, hence more latewood, hence harder. Counting the rings you'll find more on the inside of a board assuming it's not quartered.

   Lee

   Lee Grindinger

   Furniture Carver

1. 
   tailsorpins | Jan 08, 2003 09:24pm | #4

   IMHO:  In selecting the working face for a cutting board, I usually sand both sides equally, whisker each, sand, then whisker again, and on the third try, select the face that remains smoothest.  Taking note of inside vs outside, make my decision FOR ONLY THAT PARTICULAR SPECIES.  I recall it is different for different woods, but it's been a few years since I saved enough cutoffs to justify a production of cutting boards, thus I shall not try to advise which face for which hardwood species.  As you hint, end grain, then quartersawn are preferred.  Good Luck,

2. 
   Shepherd1800 | Jan 08, 2003 10:13pm | #5

   Lee,

   The outside of the tree is usually oriented to the outside of the furniture or wooden objects.  The wood on the outside of the tree weathers better in outdoor conditions and it is generally accepted that the outside of the wood is more durable.  This has been done traditionally and there has been some recent research indicates that this is the case.  I had a long exchange once with Michael Dresdner on this very point.

   Stephen Shepherd

   http://www.ilovewood.com

    

1. 
   LeeGrinding1 | Jan 08, 2003 11:59pm | #6

   Sheesh, I musta skipped class that day in woodworking school.

   I think I'll go looking for this information in some of my books. Do you have any old timey sources, or new timey for that matter, that explain this? To my recollection my books discuss grain orientation but not in reference to durability.

   I'd like to know why the outside is tougher than the inside.

   Lee Lee Grindinger

   Furniture Carver

1. 
   putter | Jan 09, 2003 06:57am | #7

   I have a better way of asking my question concerning cutting board faces.  When the boards are glued together, should I orient the end grain, on the sides, horizontally (typical) or vertically?  When this hard maple is oriented vertically the top face has interesting rays showing.  Will the face with the rays accept a finish the same as the typical face and is the face with the rays as durable?  Tage Frid says to glue old wood to old wood and new wood to new wood.  To me that means keep the grain vertical and alternate the growth rings. 

   Thank you for all the suggestions and bring more.

2. 
   tailsorpins | Jan 09, 2003 10:35pm | #8

   ...end grain on the sides blew me away! (I did not comprehend)

   Looking at the cutting boards in my kitchen that are often submerged for cleaning, (scrubbed with Palmolive liguid and wiped dry) and the salad oil finish mostly gone, and the wife doesn't remember to lightly oil them, as expected the least cupped ones have the grain wmwmwmwmwmwm.  Another is edge grain cccccccccc and it survives well, although the last time I carved a venison roast on it, pausing to enjoy supper before completing the job, it arched up as it absorbed the liquid on only one (the top)side .  Another was wwwwwwww and so badly cupped that I ripped it apart and reglued it last night wmwmwmwm!

   These are all hard maple without stain or finish other than a wipe of salad oil.  My earlier "whiskering" comments were in reference to mixed woods, like butternut, walnut, cherry, birch, beech, sycamore, mesquite, covering the whole range of cellular makeup.  They seem to respond differently to occasional wetting when left unfinished.  This wasn't referencing general furniture construction, and none of mine were specially selected for appearance, so I cannot address the finishing issue either.

   I think Tage was indicating a preference for [][][][][][], and like wmwmwmwm, it would tend to remain most flat.

   Finish all sides exactly alike for longest life.  I'm outa'here.

   John in middle Tennessee

3. 
   Splintie | Jan 10, 2003 05:58am | #9

   The biggest danger to your board won't be using it or even getting it wet, but by not allowing air to circulate around it. I don't make any distinctions in how i orient my laminated boards except to pick the best color, grain. I seldom make a cutting board over 3' in any direction, though.   

   I make a few hundred cutting boards a year for sale, on which i give a lifetime guarantee against any sort of cracking, cupping, etc. I've had to replace less than a dozen in 20 years, mostly for being put in the dishwasher. I don't guarantee against that or microwaves, but i figure it's good business.

   The caveat for the warranty is that the purchaser leaves the feet on the board. I use rubber feet, screwed on. Bigger boards get bigger feet. Last year i threw my main cutting board in the woodstove; i'd wanted to be able to answer folks who asked me "How long will this last?", but i got tired of looking at it after 2 decades.

4. 
   putter | Jan 12, 2003 06:46am | #10

   Thank you, excellent post.

5. 
   eddiefromAustralia | Jan 12, 2003 02:12pm | #12

   Putter,

   Tage Frid is/was talking about quarter sawn - that it the way that quarter sawn is glued. 

   Rift sawn/Live sawn/Back sawn timber is glued heart up/down/up for minimum movement in the panel

   Try not to mix quarter sawn and other timber cuts to minimise shrinkage at the joint.

   BUT, don't get hung up on it - as it's a cutting board, you shouldn't need to worry about cupping as though it's a tabletop.  I'd expect that it will be covered in nicks pretty soon, so if there's a mismatched glue line it's no drama.  Just follow the basic rules above to avoid glue line cracking and the associated unhygienic conditions in the board.

   A good finish is a mixture of beeswax and baby oil.  Food safe and protects well, also easy to wipe onto the board when it gets nicks in it's surface.

   Good luck,

   eddie

6. 
   Shepherd1800 | Jan 13, 2003 01:05am | #13

   I believe a publication of the Forest Products Laboratory mentioned that there was a slight advantage to orienting the wood to the weather the way it is oriented in the tree.  I know it was a tradition to build puncheon benches and solid slab table tops with the exterior of the wood (as it grows in the tree) to the exterior or top of the piece of furniture.  So I presume that our ancestors were familiar with the nature of the wood they worked.

   Stephen Shepherd

7. 
   LeeGrinding1 | Jan 13, 2003 05:18am | #14

   It's such a difference as to be inconsequential but...

   As trees grow there are vessels that carry stuff across the growth rings, these appear as medullary rays. Through these vessels to the dead heartwood travel chemicals that are antiseptic in nature. These chemicals prevent, or at least inhibit, decay in the wood. These pathways eventually clog and the flow of antiseptic chemicals cease.

   Therefore...the best wood for decay resistance is the oldest wood. The wood closest to the heart, as long as it's not juvenile tissue, is the most decay resistant.

   Bottom line? As long as you don't have pith, use the inside face, it will have an insignificantly miniscule more amount of the antiseptic chemical that prevents wood from rotting.

   I credit this to a long yak with Jon...

   Stephen, the reason that sap side is suggested for the upper side in exposed conditions is that when exposed to moisture the sapwood side will swell and the board will crown thus draining the water instead of cupping and forming a nice repository for water.

   Lee Lee Grindinger

   Furniture Carver

2. 
   eddiefromAustralia | Jan 12, 2003 02:04pm | #11

   Hi Stephen,

   I think that I missed this class in my training too.

   Could you please summarise your discussions with Michael Dresdner as to why sapwood has better weather resistance than heartwood?

   I always thought that as the sapwood/fresher wood was more susceptible to swelling with moisture adsorption, that it was put on the outside of any carcase.  This was done so that when it swelled (and assuming that the timber was fully dried before assembly) , the the carcase edges bow inwards, allowing for the corner joints & presented faces to bow into each other and not open up/crack. 

   It seems as though this wood, being softer and more porous, would be more susceptible to disease/fungus and, being softer, also be less durable than heartwood/earlier growth wood.

   Perhaps you or Jon Arno may be able to explain this.

   It's not my intention to disagree - just wondering what I've missed.  Please take this post in the manner in which it's written.

   Cheers,

   eddie