Replies

1. 
   Dustmight | Jan 25, 2005 02:14pm | #1

   Which saw is best almost always a matter of opinion to some degree.  The PM66 is a great saw, but many swear by the General cabinet saw made in Canada....including Wood Mag in Oct 2003.  Others won't buy anything but a Unisaw.  The Griz is considered a good value by alot of people, and most love the SF Classic fence...it's a very good Biese clone.  The Jet is also a reasonably well respected saw.  One common theme with these cabinet saws is that most owners love them, which tells me that they're typically plenty of saw for most of us.

   It's best to consider your budget, needs, and circumstances, then weigh the differences between the machines within your budget.  Sometimes the biggest differences are subtle....dealer/mail order,fence,rail length,warranty,accessories/freebies, etc.  During your research you may want to glance at three others consider excellent values....General International 250/260 which is the value line of General and is said to be made in the same plant as the Jet, Shop Fox 1677 which is a sister to the Griz but through dealers, and Bridgewood which is available through Wilke Machinery in York, PA....many call it the "Bridgetank".

    

2. 
   forestgirl | Jan 25, 2005 07:48pm | #2

   Michael, it's possible that the fence problems you heard about related to the "Shop Fox" fence and not the "Shop Fox Classic" which is what all of the 3HP Grizzly saws are now outfitted with.  The Classic is a Biesemeyer clone which, as far as I know, has proved to be an excellent fence.  The metal SF fence has a much less consistent rep.

   All of the 3HP 1023's are now equipped with the SF Classic fence.  Can't imagine that you'd need to swap it out.    The standard rip capacity of the 1023's is 26" but you can upgrade to 70" rails for $140.  This is where you start to get closer to the cost of the other cabinet saws such as Unisaw, but if you need to do it in stages $$-wise, it doesn't matter all that much.

    

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
   Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   AlanMikkelsen | Jan 25, 2005 10:13pm | #5

   I just bought a used Grizzly 1023, right tilt, with a 52" Beismeyer fence.  I got it home this past Friday, and right now I have it all torn apart in my shop.  There's nothing wrong with it, but I wanted to check everything out before putting it to use.  Everything works very smoothly and without any discernable vibration.  The cast iron top is mirror smooth, much smoother than the new Delta's and Powermatics that I've seen.  I'm in the process of crafting a new router station and outfeed table for the saw.  It's probably a 1991.

   That said, are Delta, Powermatic and General better saws?  Well, probably, but not necessarily where it counts.  They might have smoother castings, but the Grizzly is just as smooth where it counts.  They might have better motors, but the Grizzly is running strong after more than a decade.  Powermatic and General might have beefier trunions, but let's face it.  The vast majority of us are not heavy use, professional shops.  I use my table saw daily, but an actual two hour run for me would almost be unheard of unless I am cutting a huge batch of tenons.  Other than that, most of our cuts are measured in seconds, not minutes.  What's most important in one of these saws, IMO, is the fence.  A good fence can literally make or break the saw, and all of these saws now come with pretty good fences (Biesmeyers or clones). 

   Most of us don't really need a cabinet saw.  I know my 1953 highly modified Craftsman will run for another 50 years (it's going to my son, who is setting up his own home shop).  I just wanted the extra table depth and the cachet of having a 'cabinet' saw.  Sure hope my wife doesn't see this!

   Bottom line, you get to decide what's important to you. 

    Alan & Lynette Mikkelsen, Mountain View Farm, est. 1934,  Gardens & Fine Woodworking, St. Ignatius, MT

1. 
   forestgirl | Jan 26, 2005 08:55am | #7

   "Most of us don't really need a cabinet saw."   Shhhhhhhh!  My husband might be lurking!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   cherryjohn | Jan 26, 2005 04:49pm | #8

   youre right.we dont NEED one......but it is something to lust after!  I have a craftsman 10 table saw that had me thinking I needed to upgrade till I added a link belt to it.  What a difference!  I have run 8/4 oak thru it and it doesnt hesitate.  That said............... I sure like those General Cabinet saws!Wicked Decent Woodworks

   Rochester NH

   " If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"

2. 
   bones | Jan 27, 2005 03:17pm | #15

   Hey FG, it's like I told my wife when I bought my motorcycle and she said "You don't need a motorcycle!" I said "Need has nothing to do with it!"

3. 
   CRAIGCONEY_M | Jan 25, 2005 08:19pm | #3

   I ended up with the Shop Fox 1677, basically the same machine as the Griz 1023SL with 2 years warranty.  I've had it for nearly 3 years now.  It has been a great machine.  I have worked on unisaws as well, and prefer the 1677.  The Unisaw seems to be a little quieter, but I haven't been able to slow down my saw with anything I've pushed thru it, and there's no plastic on it except for the blade guard and power switch.

   the fence is fine, the only major difference is the Bies has a laminate face, the face on the SFC is PTFE?  If you don't like it, you can always swap it out.  

   It all comes down to how are you going to use your saw?  How much do you want to spend?  If you are doing high end millwork & furniture, I'd say get a General or PM66, or a euro slider.   If you are primarily doing it at home as a hobby, then the Griz or SF should suit you just fine.   

4. 
   frenchy | Jan 25, 2005 08:53pm | #4

   I wound up with the Grizzly 12 inch cabinet saw, in part because I had so many 12 inch blades already but mostly because I saw a lot of 16/4 stock and the  12 inch saw will do it in one pass.

      I've never regretted a single piece of Grizzly I've bought.. Sure wish I could say that about other brands I've bought!

5. 
   bones | Jan 25, 2005 10:38pm | #6

   Well, I agonized over several months deciding. I looked at PM66 and Delta's. I watched E-bay for used ones. I finally went with the 1023SLX from grizzly. It has 7' rails and a SF fence. The fence is a Bessy look-a-like and is solid.  I love mine. It has done everything I have asked. I replaced the stock guard with PSI overarm guard, but other than that it's been fine. Unfortunately the prices went up 1/1.  If you are looking for resale value, the the PM66 and Delta's would beat the Griz, but I plan on keeping mine, so that did not impact my decision. Will the Griz hold up? Well, time will tell, but I do not regret the purchase. I have included my original post on my purchase.

   http://forums.taunton.com/tp-knots/messages?msg=18897.1

6. 
   hammer1 | Jan 26, 2005 05:26pm | #9

   Don't confuse yourself. The Unisaw is the original, all others are lame copies. Go into a large production shop, you won't find any Grizzlys, Shop Fox, Jet etc. Once in awhile you will spot a PM, maybe a General in Canada.

   Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

1. 
   mike4244 | Jan 26, 2005 05:42pm | #10

   many production shops are using Grizzly, in my area Powermatic is probably the most used because they were bought years ago and still running good.I have personally bought 7 Grizzly cabinet saws. One for myself and the rest for shops I worked in over the last ten years.The early saws I bought were outfitted with Beismier fences,the original fences are boat anchors. The latter saws use the shopfox classic fence that comes with the saw.

   We have many older delta saws,some called unisaws, others just rockwell delta. They are of fine quality, and may be a better value than the over priced unisaws selling today.I have used the jet , good saw ,even though the saw is 3hp ,same as unisaw and others I believe it does not have the same torque as delta, powermatic, etc motors.Although the jet is fine for most applications.

   mike

1. 
   highfigh | Jan 26, 2005 06:45pm | #11

   I wonder, how many of us here have large production shops?
   "I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."

1. 
   hammer1 | Jan 27, 2005 07:21am | #13

   If a saw is good enough to last in an industrial environment, it should hold up pretty good in a home shop. I think you get a better understanding of a piece of equipment's functionality and durability by looking at what the pros use. They don't usually pick something because a hobbyist magazine says it is good or it looks pretty. I would say the Delta industrial line is in wide spread use because they work well.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

1. 
   highfigh | Jan 27, 2005 08:15am | #14

   I realize large production shops use specific equipment based on its longevity and precision, but they can also justify(and amortize) the higher expense. The point of my question had to do with this forum and how many here are buying the tools they ask about for true high production shops vs how many are here as hobbyists/small output cabinet and furniture makers. When people here ask for advice on which saw is best at a specific price point, there has to be a reason. Otherwise, they would just buy whatever they wanted and the price wouldn't be an issue. Personally, I think that if a company makes a tool look pretty, they aren't spending their time on the necessities. It's a tool. I would rather have a drab looking grey saw than one that looks really nice, but has shotcomings. On the other hand, Oliver makes saws that look nice, but they operate really smoothly and cut extremely accurately. Also, pretty pricey. I had an old 8" Delta. Nice saw. If I had room, I would still have it. For me, having a 10" saw is better, though. Bigger table, more power, cuts thicker stock, etc. It was grey, the one I have now is green and works really well. I've seen and used a few commercial grade saws in a high output shop. Would I like to have them, he!! yes! Do I have the space/money? he!! no! If a high output shop has the same brands as people here are asking about, it's either a coincidence or they actually are great machines. The key is asking their opinion of the machines, not whether they are in the shops.
   "I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."

   Edited 1/27/2005 12:17 am ET by highfigh

2. 
   ron61 | Jan 28, 2005 02:42am | #22

   I have personally bought 7 Grizzly cabinet saws.

   So did they wear out or something break - just wondering why 7 Griz. saws ?

    Other than motors wearing out I have seen a bunch of Unisaws at least 40 years old still going strong. I bet theres been more Unisaws sold  than other brands - myself I would not have another saw.   

   Ron 

    

1. 
   mike4244 | Jan 28, 2005 03:42am | #23

   I don't like to change blades, just kidding. I may have forgotten to mention the other saws were for shops that I worked for over the years.I liked the Grizzly so much that when I retired I bought the last for myself.I also bought the G1073 bandsaw at almost the same time, excellent saw.

   I agree there are more unisaws or old Delta Rockwell saws around.For the quality and price I prefer the Grizzly. If money was no object ,Powermatic would be my first choice. Over the years the only maintance on the grizzlys I can recall were the usual belts and two saws developed switch problems. One switch was replaced, under warranty, the other needed the red stop button. Grizzly sent the stop button free of charge even though the saw was 6 years old.Only a $1.00 or so part but we have paid excessive prices on similar small parts over the years from other suppliers.

   Glad you like your unisaw,

   mike

2. 
   ron61 | Jan 28, 2005 02:28am | #21

   Amen Brother DELTA is #1   

    

7. 
   Mr_JJ | Jan 26, 2005 10:44pm | #12

   I just bought a Unisaw for $2150 CDN, And I love it. I was going to get the General, as IMHO it is the best saw out there. However, most of the saws out there are excellent. In my mind, it is sort of like Pickup trucks. Basically, they are all the same. One might be better in aone area, by a hair, and the other is a little better than the other in another area. I bought the Delta because of the X5 deal (Free tools, accessories, and rebates) It is really quite a good deal. I am really pleased with my saw. Oh, and by the way, I could not believe the difference between my new Unisaw and my old contractors saw. Knowing what I know now, I never would have bought the contractors saw. That is what it is; A contractors saw. The cabinet saws are much better suited to woodworking.

8. 
   Pondfish | Jan 27, 2005 04:23pm | #16

   I got my 1023 over 15 years ago and it is still working great.  The only problem it had THEN is the crummy fence.  It looks like the new 1023s have a decent fence.  Still, with the savings you have money left over for a upgraded fence.

   Which begs the (eternal) question--anyone out there want to recommend what after market fence to add to an old 1023?

1. 
   highfigh | Jan 27, 2005 05:38pm | #17

   Why not just buy the kind they ship with now? Other than the HDPE faces, I like the one on my 1023S. I haven't changed the faces yet, but probably will in spring. HDPE grows when it gets really hot and that makes the faces a little wavey. If I can get some corian(or equivalent), I may try that. The mechanism is really solid and works well. If you can get a replacement fence, I have a set of the 50" rails that I don't plan to use, since I got the 7 footers.
   "I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."

2. 
   mike4244 | Jan 27, 2005 05:45pm | #18

   Shopfox classic fence.

   mike

3. 
   AlanMikkelsen | Jan 27, 2005 06:39pm | #19

   I just bought a used 1023 (about 1991).  It's got a 52" Beisemeyer fence on it.  I'm still in the process of building all my table and setting it up.  I tore it apart down to the trunions just to make sure everything was in good shape.  Looks fine, new bearings and I should be sawing with it by next week. Alan & Lynette Mikkelsen, Mountain View Farm, est. 1934,  Gardens & Fine Woodworking, St. Ignatius, MT

4. 
   forestgirl | Jan 27, 2005 10:09pm | #20

   The Shop Fox Classic (Biesemeyer clone featured on the current Grizzly 1023's) is priced at $225 (standard rails) or $275 (7' riles, 54" capacity).

   Or there's the Accusquare by Mule Cabinetmakers.  $209 to $229 depending on which of the 3 rail-lengths you choose.  90-day "no-questions" guarantee.  Add the Eurojig ($29) and you have the short-fence ability of the Unifence.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)