Replies

1. 
   BG | May 11, 2003 04:55am | #1

   tida,

   Can't go wrong with Powermatic or Unisaw...both are terriffic. 

1. 
   scooter1 | May 20, 2003 01:18am | #30

   Delta Unisaw.

   Regards,

   Boris

   "Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934

2. 
   RW | May 11, 2003 06:23am | #2

   Ditto. PM66 is on a dream sheet. I've met two, and they're both beautiful things. I also really like, for the sake of those with infinite pockets, a SCMI sitting in a pals shop. 5 feet to the right, 8 feet of outfeed, 8 foot sliding table which will extend to 12', blade sits just shy of the left edge of the body, clamps on the slider for rough stock for straight lining. Think he said he dropped about 25K on that. I have dreams.

   "The child is grown / The dream is gone / And I have become / Comfortably numb "      lyrics by Roger Waters

3. 
   JMartinsky | May 11, 2003 04:25pm | #3

   Tida,

   Powermatic 66, no question. Ordered mine from Amazon.com, arrived on time and have been making dust ever since. I have the 50" fence, the only thing that I wish that I had gotten was a moblie base. Forrest or Freud blades are the way to go. Congratulations & Good Luck!

   John

1. 
   otto | May 11, 2003 07:27pm | #6

   Thanks for your comments. Good to hear that you had succes with Amazon.I am considering them as well. One question which I have not covered yet: where do you go for service/ warranty if you need something that you bought over the web?

   Thanks for your help.

   Tida

1. 
   purswell | May 16, 2003 06:44am | #21

     Here's a story that may influence you: I bought a unisaw about a year ago.  After I had it for a few months, I could start it once, but after it ran, it needed 25 minutes of down time until it could start again.  I checked wire, capacitors,motor, meg-ohms, the mag starter, everything.  So, I called Deltas hotline and told them what was going on, the fellow on the phone was going to send a whole new motor/ contactor.  He got my name number address and told me expect it in a week.  20 minutes later a Delta salesman called me.  He was driving to Portland Or (3 hours away) and was half an hour from my house.  He stopped by, found the problem (A bad connection on the start capacitor), cleaned the saw, aligned the fence, thanked me and left.  A week later I got the new motor, with a note from him thanking me for buying Delta.  I still can't believe how well they treated me.  I always recommend Delta.  The Powermatic is also a nice machine, but don't buy the Jet.

1. 
   Robbie | May 16, 2003 05:19pm | #22

   Purswell:  I could not agree more.  Had a dust collector that would trip the breaker every other time I started it.  Delta replaced the motor ... Fed Ex.  Had excessive arbor runout (.004"), but still within factory specs, a new arbor arrived within 3 days. 

   I rebuilt an old 1950s Delta saw, the tech at the 800 number and the local Delta tech people have simply been unbelievable.

   A Powermatic 66 has always been my future dream saw.  However, given the service I get from Delta, along with VERY strong parts and service availability, I may end up with a Unisaw just to be loyal to Delta.  I love that company.  I do not work for them, nor am I a Pentair shareholder.

   Robbie

4. 
   redryder | May 11, 2003 04:54pm | #4

   No doubt, if you can afford them, you won't go wrong with either the Unisaw (I have one) or the PowerMatic 66. They are both in a class by themselves and you will not be unhappy.

   George

1. 
   otto | May 11, 2003 07:23pm | #5

   Hi George,

   Thanks for your comments. Good to know that all  these machines are good ones. All I have to do now is make a choice.

   I appreciate your help.

   Best regards,

   Tida

5. 
   jc21 | May 12, 2003 04:28am | #7

   Don't overlook General!   http://www.general.ca/product/general/650t50an.html

6. 
   cutter | May 12, 2003 05:34pm | #8

   I purchased  a right tilt Delta Unisaw about two years ago and am very pleased with it.  If you plan to add accessories it is the standard which seems to have the most items to go with it.  I have the right extension table and the outfeed table.  I have the 52" Biesemeyer fence. Also bought the Delta Uniguard which is outstanding - I love the split guard (if you buy the Uniguard, order the "adapter plate" which is a steel strip to replace the angle rail on the rear of the saw).  Everything fit - I did not have to drill any holes except for screws in the wood tables.

   The table slots are the industry standard - everything fits with the least modification.

   Why right tilt? Because it is traditional and I figured all accessories would work with it with the least modification or problems.

   I like the Biesemeyer fence - very repeatable. However I think the Unifence works a little better for accessories - e.g. the rear rail works with the Uniguard - and also it appears easier to attach auxiliary fences to it.

   I have never used the Jet or Powermatic, but have looked at them in stores.

   The Unisaw aligns perfectly and for which the angle settings are repeatable and accurate.  I researched extensively in the forums and specs before buying any of these items.  Good luck!

1. 
   otto | May 13, 2003 02:51am | #9

   Covey Road,

   Thank you for your reply and information relative to my question. I appreciate your inputs and will consider them together with those of everyone else! I hope to be through with this in the next several weeks.

   Regards.

   Tida

1. 
   TomFerreira | May 13, 2003 04:32am | #10

   Tida,

   I don't know if you have a Woodworkers Warehouse near you but I bought my PM66 there. They will meet any price you can find, even internet sites. I recommend chacking out http://www.toolseeker.com. If you open a new credit card account with them you will get an additional 10% off. This will also give you someone local to talk to if you do have problem.

   Good Luck!

   TDF

1. 
   otto | May 13, 2003 05:46am | #11

   Hi Tom,

   Thanks for the recommendation. I will check oth of them out and see what they have. A 10% saving just for opening a credit card at  the purchase price of a PM66 is a pretty nice savings. Thanks for the tip!

   Tida

7. 
   migraine | May 14, 2003 06:24pm | #12

   I think that most are in agreement that the Unisaw and Powermatic66 are the most preferred.  My personal opinion is to gi with a left tilt blade.  That is the standard with powermatic and now Unisaw makes a left tilt blade.  I have voiced my opinion about the left tilt saw before on this site.  Remember, it's my opinion, everyone else has their own opinion.  None of are totally right and none of us are wrong.  Just a different way of thinking.  If I had my way, I would own a left tilt and a right tilt.  I had a SCMI slide saw and a powermatic66 and sold the slide saw last year.  Boy, do I miss that saw :-(

1. 
   otto | May 15, 2003 04:00am | #13

   Hello Migraine,

    Thanks for the adivse. The more I listen to the forum the more there seems to be agreement on the suggested choice.  The left tilt blade seems to make a lot of sense to me as well. Relative to the brand of saw, I also will take at  the General saw based on some of the posted advise.

   Thanks again and best regards,

   Tida

1. 
   migraine | May 15, 2003 04:36am | #14

   Forget the General Saw, IMHO

1. 
   Steinmetz | May 15, 2003 04:56am | #15

   Forget the general? Why? Price?/ made in US?/Three phase?/noisy?/

1. 
   jc21 | May 15, 2003 07:45am | #17

   The General is made in Canada, costs about the same as a Unisaw and less than a PM66, and imho, better made and more solidly constructed than the Unisaw.

2. 
   otto | May 16, 2003 04:10am | #19

   Hi Migraine,

   Please let me know why in IYHO I should forget about the General saw. I am interested to know so that I can hopefully learn from your experience

   Thanks,

   Tida

1. 
   Accelar | May 26, 2003 06:52pm | #32

   Re General: Just bought and assembled a General contractors' saw - been playing with it all weekend and the accuracy is great.  Using a Freud blade and it's dead quiet, smooth starts, no vibration.  I hear from others that the cabinet saw is exponentially better.  I find that hard to imagine! 

   General are made in Canada, are good value and General is only a tool company, wholly committed to making quality tools - not owned by some conglomerate who may or may not continue to be in the quality tool business.  The folks at Lee Valley / Veritas use the contractor version for their table saw classes and that should give you some reference point.

   I can't tell you much about the Cabinet saw from personal use - just that they are used in many many fine furniture / cabinet manufacturing industrial shops in Canada  and enjoy a fabulous reputation here.    Good luck with your lifetime purchase!Gavin Pitchford

   "Sail fast - live slow"

2. 
   JohnWW | May 26, 2003 07:47pm | #33

   General power tools are made in Canada and have a well deserved reputation for quality.  There is also a second division of the company called General International that distributes generic machines made in Taiwan painted with the General paint color and having a logo very similar to the Canadian made machines. 

   In my experience, some of the overseas tools are good for what they are, and some are only fair at best.  General and General International both make cabinet saws.

   John W.

    

3. 
   Accelar | May 26, 2003 08:42pm | #34

   The General International machines are made in Taiwan to General's spec, Quality guidelines and they apparently have  rep on site to inspect.  The General International products are lower quality and a LOT less expensive.  For a lifetime cabinet saw purchase where budget is appropriate, I would suggest that if you consider General consider the Canadian made ones - and consider General International (the Taiwanese version) only if cost is more of a factor than you have let on - or if the work you will be doing will be demanding - but not incredibly so or enough to justify the extra expense.   

   I did a lot of research into the company before buying - and there was some interesting posts on Knots (see "3 saws - 1 factory - are they the same") on the subject of General Int'l's Taiwan facility and ISO 9002.

   Gavin Pitchford

   "Sail fast - live slow"

   Edited 5/26/2003 1:45:08 PM ET by Gavin

4. 
   Adrian | May 26, 2003 10:17pm | #35

   Search the archives for more on General; best saw in it's class by a long way, IMO. I've worked on lots of Unisaws, and lots of of 350's and 550's, and personally I would never consider buying a Unisaw...weight, power, fit and finish, quality of accesories, everything is in Generals favour. I find most Delta stuff less than inspring...(I held back there)....and my experiences with their customer service have been abysmal. I know my industrial suppliers have had the same, and avoid delta when possible.cabinetmaker/college instructor. Cape Breton, N.SWAY too conservative to be merely right wing

2. 
   tbhs1964 | May 15, 2003 05:22am | #16

   I have a PM66.  It's great.  Get it and don't look back.  I already forgot what I paid for it.

8. 
   jc21 | May 15, 2003 06:18pm | #18

   FWIW, there's a review of 9 cabinet saws by Kelly Mehler in the April issue of the Woodworker's Journal. Check the archives here and at Breaktime .......... plenty of info and opinion. The Delta Unisaw, PM66, and the General 350/650 are all good saws and I'd think you'd be happy with any of them.

1. 
   otto | May 16, 2003 04:11am | #20

   JC,

   Thanks for the references! I will check it out.

   Regards,

   Tida

9. 
   JeffKurtz | May 16, 2003 08:12pm | #23

   Tida,

   I don't see how you could go wrong with any of these machines.  (Some folks on this forum dislike Jet, but don't give a reason why.  I love mine and never regret not buying a Powermatic or Delta.)  Certainly, General is also an excellent machine.

   Guess if I were in your shoes I'd buy whichever machine I can have serviced locally.  Chances are you'll never have a problem, but if you do, you'll be glad to have a tech nearby and folks who'll back you up.  (Big difference between you calling company and saying "motor is no good" or the electrician at your dealer's shop saying the same.  When he calls, you'll get a new motor, no question asked.)

   Jeff

10. 
    MCelona | May 18, 2003 02:08am | #24

    Hi Tida!

    If money is no object, may I suggest the ultimate table saw...... a Northfield #4 table saw with a rolling table. Very pricey $10 to 15,000.00, but what a machine! I had the distinct pleasure to use one of these saws when I worked as a model maker for Stone and Webster Engineering. The absolute ULTIMATE, and still produced today. http://www.northfieldwoodworking.com

1. 
   otto | May 18, 2003 05:42am | #25

   Hi Mike,

   Thanks for the reference.

   I just took a  look at their site and I must say that it appears to be rock solid equipment, just a lilltle too pricey for me.

   Thanks for your advise though!

   Tida

11. 
    Michael6255 | May 18, 2003 04:06pm | #26

    Hello,

    I've had a 66 for a reasonably long time and really appreciate its build quality.  Mine has the Baldor motor, and I'm not certain if they still use Baldor, but it's another reason to possibly consider a 66.  Find out whose motor will be in your saw. If you read these boards enough, you can't miss a good number of posts about bad motors.  Jet had the most problems,......then Delta.....................and far behind was PM.  A motor is very expensive on these saws, so it makes sense to get the best on you can buy when you make your purchase. 

    Having said those things about the 66, if I had to do it all over again, I'd have to tell you that I'd also look at the new Laguna saw with its riving knife....... as well as the SawStop saw....which looks to me to be an exact clone of the 66 except for the color.  I'm not saying anything pro or con about the Sawstop saw since I've neither seen one in person nor read a review, but the idea is very interesting.  The laguna TS was reviewed in FWW a year or so ago and it looked very promising ,to say the least , from a safety perspective.  Good luck, and I'll bet you that you'll be  happy man with any one that you finally choose.

    Mike

12. 
    JamesC67 | May 18, 2003 10:19pm | #27

    Unless your a hard core made in america fan I'd say get what you can afford.

     There are plenty of very good saws out there that will do everything and then some that most folks would like to .

     A few years ago I bought a Grizzly 1023 SL and have never had one minutes worth of problems with it or the "6 jointer that I bought at the same time and both these tools are in a production shop that runs almost everday except weakends.

     I looked at several saws and I decided on Griz becouse of several other guitar companies and production shops use Griz. They went that way becouse of quality,price and service. For me price played a big role becouse in a production shop dependability ,money and profit margin play a big role.

     Well good luck and I'm sure you will make the right decission for you.

    Sincerely,

     Jim Clark 

1. 
   JMartinsky | May 19, 2003 01:04am | #28

   I own and recommend PM 66, BUT, it was brought to my attention in this posting that the SAWSTOP machine may be a PM knockoff. I have read about the system, but the website has a video demo that can be downloaded. If it is a PM 66 knock off (and it appears that it is) I would VERY seriously consider this tool. I bought the PM 66 sight unseen based on reputation, SAWSTOP is a new company, but their safety system can not be denied. For the uninitiated, SAWSTOP is a system that somehow senses flesh contact with the blade and INSTANTLY lowers the blade, like a gunshot. The test is done with a hot dog and the dog is scratched about is all. I will keep a close eye on them. If I can see the saw up close and personal, I would consider replacing my two year old 66. It would seem that I would have to pay a couple of hundred more for the SAWSTOP, but considering what new fingers might cost, I would consider it money well spent. Good Luck!

   John

1. 
   fingerlessHack | Mar 06, 2006 04:18am | #39

   A Sawstop is definitly not a PM 66 knock off. It is a lot beefier than a PM 66. The saw had to be beefier in order to with stand the forces generated when the safety braking system is triggered. Since the safety system stops the blade  in 3-5 milli-seconds, this is equivalent to 100 horse power. This is a lot of power exzerted on the arbor and trunnion assembly. PM 66 arbor would more than likely bend under such stress and General 350 probably would not fair any better. A Sawstop machine was lab tested hundreds of times for this scenario with no change in saws arbor run out. Pretty impressive to be able to with stand such stresses. I doubt any other saw could with stand such a beating.

   Cheers.

1. 
   JMartinsky | Mar 09, 2006 02:36am | #41

   Sorry it took so long for me to respond. How do you know so much about the Saw Stop? Do you have one?John

1. 
   fingerlessHack | Mar 09, 2006 03:43am | #42

   I read as many discussion threads as I could find online. Enough so that I was persuaded to purchase one.

   I have not had a chance to use it yet. I am a weekend warrior so time is rare. Estetically the machine is beautiful, even my wife said so and she hates what ever time I devote to setting up shop. But looks mean nothing, not wife wise but table saw wise.

   The inventor of Sawstop had to redesign the mechanics of the saw in order to accomadate the saw's extra heavy dutyness and its braking system.

   People are right to question the saw's track record which only goes back two years now. I would agree it is a gamble but one I felt worth the risk. Of those two years to date, I have not heard anything negative about the machines performance other than operator error causing the safety brake to trigger. Naturally, error pissed user off because of destroyed blade and cost of replacement brake.

   Cheers

2. 
   JMartinsky | Mar 09, 2006 04:54am | #43

   I have a PM 66 which I like a lot, but the Saw Stop definitely seems like a step in the right direction. I am a contractor by trade, specializing in interiors, and so I am a streak hitter in the shop. sometimes I am not in there for four months, then I can't get out of there for four months. I had the PM kick a cabinet door at me (my fault) a couple of years ago, it now hangs on the wall, in clear view, from the saw station as a little reminder. I got lucky, with only a bruised hip, but things can happen pretty fast and my reflexes aren't getting any better. One day I may replace the PM with a Combo or a Saw Stop. Let us know how you like it when you finally get to use it.Thanks,John

3. 
   fingerlessHack | Mar 09, 2006 04:55pm | #44

   Funny you should mention Combo saw. I replaced my X31 combo with Sawstop.

   Cheers

4. 
   JMartinsky | Mar 10, 2006 12:54am | #45

   No kidding! Wow! I looked a Minimax Combo and was pretty impressed. seemed like a better way to do things. Good Luck!John

13. 
    ronweaver | May 19, 2003 08:36pm | #29

    Two years ago, I, after having a Sears 12" direct drive tablesaw for 20 years, purchased my "dream saw", a Unisaw with Unifence.  It is a great saw- powerful, accurate and very well built. I outfitted it with roller outfeed and an Excalibur sliding table after getting tired of always taking my crosscut sliding fixture on and off.  Unfortunately, the Excalibur is not a super precision device but it has whetted my appetite for a really good sliding table/panel saw.  I am surprised that US/Canadian saw makers haven't caught on to the European design ideas yet.  If you do a fair amount of panel cutting or crosscutting, a sliding table is an unbelievable addition to a table saw.  All of is is a preface to say- You owe it to yourself to look at the European saws- Felder, Hammer, Rojek, Minimax, and others.  So far, the Minimax looks to have the most features and quality for the money (and I have just bought a 16" bandsaw (13"resaw) from Minimax).  If this is the last saw you want to buy, I really suggest you check them out.  Go to a Woodworking show and see and touch.  It will be difficult to by a PM66 or Unisaw once you have seen these machines.          

1. 
   otto | May 24, 2003 07:39pm | #31

   Hi Ron,

   Thanks for your comments. I am particularly interested in your experience with the Excalibur as I have started to look at that as an option as well. When you say it is inaccurate, do you  have any specifics why?

   I would appreciate some further information on this if possible.

   Thanks,

   Tida

1. 
   ronweaver | May 31, 2003 08:31am | #36

   Tida- My chief complaint about the Excaliber sliding table is the straightness (or lack thereof) of the cut.  I build custom loudspeakers and precut large sheets into near net panel sizes ranging from 8" to 36" on a side with a vertical panel saw, and then recut then on my Unisaw.   I use the sliding table to make the "third cut" which establishes the perpendicular side, after cutting parallel sides using the rip fence.  The forth side is then cut parallel to the third side, again with the rip fence as the guide.  As the third side is placed against the rip fence, I can see the variation to true straight that the blade has cut when guided by the sliding table.  It wavers about .010"to .015 along a 24" cut, not what I would call precise. 

   Excaliber warrantees their products for as long as you own them.  I have called the factory and explained the problem.  (The table uses a long rectangular section tube on which two trios of bearings roll, as the guide surface.)  The straightness of the tube is critical.  I convinced the service rep that it was not straight and he immediately promised to send a new one.  That was over a year ago-none arrived.  I have since called again, first 6 weeks ago, then 3 weeks ago, each time being promised a new tube.  Still none has arrived.  I will call again next week.

   For general use, the Excaliber is OK.  I am looking for something very precise for my next saw.  The only way to get that is with a European saw with integrated table.

   Ron Weaver

14. 
    user-135888 | Jun 08, 2003 08:46pm | #37

    Hi

    I have a tiawanese general contracter saw and have not had an easy time with it. trunion problems. Also suprisingly blade clearence problems (the blade bearly gets under the table and it hits the trunnion, ONLY WITH MY HI ATB though).

    But the main reason I'm posting is because of the T-style fence almost identical on all saws but generals fence rails are not designed to be replace (Important if you plan on having your saw for along time). Most other companies put gaps on the under side of thier fences so replacing the rails is posible.

    john g

1. 
   m9er | Mar 04, 2006 10:25pm | #38

   I had the same problem with my General International 50-185 contractor saw....the blade hit the front trunion when lowered........I was lucky to notice it during assembly.....The dealer and General had never heard of it.....................within 10 minutes I had located another owner with the same problem.....................unfortunately for him, he never noticed until I asked him to check........................I exchanged the saw and now have some very challenging alignment issues 

    

   NOT IMPRESSED WITH General international

15. 
    joepez | Mar 08, 2006 09:02pm | #40

    Don't know if you have bought a saw yet, but I have a pm66 for sale. Look in the classified section.

    joe p