Replies

1. 
   tufenhundel | Jul 17, 2003 11:09pm | #1

   Dude, I also looked into Oneida, and settled for something more within my budget.  Here's my setup:

   I got a 850 cfm Jet collector that is piped through 4" duct to each machine that needs collection.  At each end, there is a gate, and only one is open at a time.  At the collector end I have one of those plastic seperators that I put on top of a 30 gal. drum.  It is most effective when the dust level in the collector is less than half way.  Yes, it does have to be emptied more often.  But if I could get a taller barrel, it'll be better yet.

   Anyone that knows the numbers will say my system is inedequate.  They're right.  But I make up for this by cleaning (vacuuming) everyday, and wearing a respirator, which I RARELY take off when I am in the shop.

   My point-o-view is there is no feasible way to collect enough dust to negate wearing protection.  Just install something to make cleaning up at the end of the day easier, and protect yourself with something that is proven to work. 

2. 
   PaulReuter | Jul 18, 2003 01:32am | #2

   Go with the Oneida. I've worked in shops with less then adequate dust collection & it sucks.  Oh, bad pun.  If you find in the future you have no use for it, you can always sell it.  If your use of your shop grows, you don't have to upgrade later.

   No collection system will collect 100% from any machine so I'd recommend You also think seriously   about an air scrubber.  This is another place not to scrimp, but you don't have to pay big bucks for a ready-built unit .  Think plywood box with an old furnace fan blowing out with a large 2-3" thick pleated felt air filter on the intake side.  Mine is built into the wall & blows out into the rest of the basement.  there is an intake vent at the other end of the shop for air to come back in.  Terrific cross-ventilation system.  It works extremely well because if you think DW would put up with me blowing shop dust all aver the rest of the basement.........

   An earlier poster mentioned making the shop easier to clean also has a lot of merit.  Smooth, finished walls, a finished ceiling, and, if nothing else, at least a coat of paint on the floor will all help make your shop a nicer place to work.

   Paul

1. 
   Manchild | Jul 18, 2003 05:23am | #5

   Does $1300-$1500 sound high for a one man shop in a two car garage? That's a considerable chunk of change to me. I do like to do things right the first time and get on with it, but I'm just wondering if ductwork over to a felt bag unit would be fine. The air scrubber I could add later. I might make accomodations at this point though.

1. 
   DavidP52 | Jul 19, 2003 02:23pm | #7

   I agree with you. AFter more than 20 years, I still haven't done it, less because of $$$ than space. And then the idea of duct work all over, that just adds more clutter and cleaning dimension.

   Perhaps someone can tell me how a DC system does wtih the table saw? I really get tired of trying to clean that thing out. Does your DC keep it from filling up?

1. 
   forestgirl | Jul 19, 2003 07:53pm | #10

   Boatman, how well a DC does with a tablesaw depends on what type you have (cabinet or contractor's or hybrid) and what brand (there are a few cabinet saws that give the stuff up easier than others, and there are differences between the hybrid saws also).  The contractor's saw, of course, is the worst because of all that open space.  The backs of a contractor's saw can be partially closed off to help improve flow into the DC.  From what I've heard there will still be some dust build-up but not too much. 

   As you know, my contractor's saw gets some relief just using a large Craftsman vacuum, so it's logical that a real DC would make a big difference.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   sawduster | Jul 20, 2003 01:52am | #13

   I'm using a Jet DC 1100 for my shop. It's hooked to 4" hoses and aluminum gates for each machine. On the Table (cabinet) saw I find that it picks up most of the fine stuff, but I still have a load in the bottom of the cabinet from using the dado blades. It is, however easy to open the cover occasionally and feed it into the hose. On the other hand, the router table set up is worth any cost. It keeps the level of chips and dust very low. About the only thing I lose into the air is the chips when I use a piloted bit and don't have the fence as close as I should. I have a DC pick up on the fence and in the table as well. Jointer works well, planer not so well (softwood especially seems to overload the system), and bandsaw just flat sucks (pun intended). I use an air cleaner as well (sometime) and still have to clean the shop, just not as often or as much as before.

3. 
   forestgirl | Jul 18, 2003 03:28am | #3

   Are you factoring in a filter unit for your dust control costs?  The best dust collector is still going to leave stuff circulating, and the very fine stuff (that you can't see) is the worst for your lungs, broncial tubes, sinuses and gnose.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   Manchild | Jul 18, 2003 05:11am | #4

   I was factoring in filtering. The Onieda system had one. I've heard of some with a felt bag. I've heard a lot of things. Which one to buy? I don't know. $900+ for just the seperator and filter unit. Seems a little high don 't you think. Which one do you recomend and why?

1. 
   sawduster | Jul 18, 2003 05:26am | #6

   See if you can locate Rick Peters' book, Controlling Dust in the Workshop, it's a good premer on dust control and should answer most of your questions. Opinoion: you can't have enough.

4. 
   Oregonboy | Jul 19, 2003 04:17pm | #8

   David,

   Before you decide, check out this website.  http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworking/cyclone/

   Bill has done a tremendous amount of research and I think he is right on track.  I've built the cyclone but I'm still waiting for the fan wheel I ordered from Jet (2 -1/2 months and counting).  Dust collection isn't cheap.  Even by building it yourself, I would expect an investment of $500-$1000.  However, if you don't keep your shop air clean, it is highly probable that you can expect some sensitivity (or worse) to wood dust as you grow older.

   Good luck!

1. 
   Manchild | Jul 19, 2003 09:29pm | #12

   $500-$1000 sounds a little more reasonable . Thanks!

5. 
   jhausch | Jul 19, 2003 04:21pm | #9

   I am considering the DIY cyclone.  There is tons o'info here:

   http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworking/cyclone/

   This guy (at the link above) has truly provided a selfless service to his fellow woodworkers.

   The other option is the new Jet unit with the cartridge on top.  I have heard nothing but good about those, but I'd replace the lower plastic bag with a container and a sleeve.  I bet one of those with a can lid set up right before would be a great combo.

   On the issue of Minicyclones and other forms of DC, I have wondered why the air coming out of the unit is not just vented outside?

   For example:  With the cyclone, rather than take the cyclone exhaust to filters, duct it through the wall and and put a big flapper vent on the outside wall of the shop.  For the bag over bag units, build them a little closet in the corner of the shop and then put a vent to the outside throught the back wall of the closet.

   The only drawbacks to that I am guessing would be noise (for the nieghbors - noise in your shop would be reduced) and drawing a vacuum in the whole shop.  The vacuum in the shop could be handled by opening a door or window, but I suppose that would not be so great in the Winter.

   I have a friend that has a nice DC system for most of his stuff, but because he did not want any ducts above the TS or along the floor, he bought the cheapie unit shown here just for his Unisaw:
   http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=31810
   and tucked it under the outfeed table.

   Steelkilt Lives!
1. 
   Manchild | Jul 19, 2003 09:27pm | #11

   Thanks for the site! I'll read it over. I guess the reason for not venting outside is because you lose heat or cool air that you might of paid dearly for. The reason I want a dust collector is so I can go into my shop and build stuff that will come out of the shop. If the shop is too hot, cold, noisy, or dusty I spend too much time and energy just trying cope with these issues. I reason that if my shop is more comfortable I will spend more time in it.

6. 
   hmthomas | Jul 20, 2003 02:12am | #14

   David & others,

   Here's my experience. I recently got the new 2hp Jet with the canister filter. I initially had it hooked up only to the tablesaw. I cleaned the saw when I did the hookup and have been watching it since. I've found that it keeps the saw completely clean. I do loose some sawdust becasue the blade slings it out on top but for now I can live with it.

   I've since added some other machines and blastgates but have noticed that the saw isn't staying as clean as it did initially. It could be that there are some leaks or the blastgates may not be top quality but overall the shop is a heck of a lot cleaner and cleanup at the end of the day is much easier. I've got to work on a better system for the bandsaw which puts out the finest dust.

   For my purposes the Jet has been money well spent, I would have liked to have had the Oneida but with all the ductwork its considerably more expensive.  I'm a hobbyist and couldn't really justify the added expense.

   As for the suggestion of venting the cyclone discharge outside the shop I guess that would work in certain locations. It may present a problem in climates that require heated shops, lots of warm air pumped outside. In a neighborhood it might piss off the neighbors.

   just my 2 cents worth 

1. 
   Jeff | Jul 20, 2003 02:23pm | #15

   I use a cyclone system and must say it works great, very little left

   to clean up.

   I do have an overhead air cleaner also.

   I have a filter system in the shop for the collectors exhaust, with

   a y and gates on it.

   When weather is warm enough, the dust goes out back, when cold, it

   goes thru the filter into the shop.

   Solves the heat loss problem.

   Jeff

7. 
   Jfrostjr | Jul 20, 2003 04:05pm | #16

   I have a Penn State DC-2 (www.pennstateind.com). These follks have a great variety of systems available. DC-2 with bags is $280 and 1100 cfm. I recommend getting the canister top system ($450), comes with a set of 40 gallon, plastic, bottom collection bags. I strongly recommend the Remote switch for $60. Starts the system from anywhere in the shop.

   I have my system hooked up to my jointer, planer, contractors saw, radial arm saw and a enclosure under my router table (Woodpeckers). Blast gates on each item, only one open at a time. I too had big problems with the fine dust from the bandsaw. I finally gave my Delta to my son and bought a Laguna. I love it. Great dust collection, so it is on the system too.

   My hookup uses 4" light duty plastic pipe with a sweep elbow at each blast gate. (Hardware store) I added copper grounding wire in the pipes just to be safe, $10. What a pleasure to have a clean shop. (except for the overthrow of the table saw.)

1. 
   Manchild | Jul 20, 2003 08:44pm | #17

   Thanks. I'm working on doing just about what you have done.

8. 
   JMartinsky | Jul 21, 2003 02:10pm | #18

   Oneida, no question. Expensive? Perhaps, but compared to what new lungs cost it is a bargain! Working with MDF and waking up with a bloody nose, finally pushed me over the edge. Just do it! Save yourself (or at least your tools and shop), the materials that we work with are NOT real friendly. You will not be sorry. Oh and while your at it, get the "Long Ranger 2" remote starter. Good Luck!

   John