Hi All,
Quick question. As I am in the process of assembling the carcasses of a matching set of dressers for my daughters I am wondering if I should be using Titebond III rather than Titebond I which I picked up a gallon of a while back. I could naively assume the ‘III’ is stronger than the ‘I’, although I understand the ‘III’ is for wetter environments. I ask because I saw Norm using the ‘III’ on an interior project recently without explaining why.
The company website and descriptions on the tubes aren’t much help so a little practical guidance would be great.
Thanks!
Replies
As a practical matter, I don't think there is an appreciable difference as far as strength is concerned. If you have the Titebond I, use it.
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"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Last I looked, all PVA, hide and polyurethane glues were within 10% of each other in strength. That says to me, it's a non-issue -- it depends more on a properly glued, well-fitting joint than which bottle you pick up. And all are stronger than the wood next to it, which makes it even more moot. Pick your glue on some other criteria -- open or closed time, ability to clamp, reversiblity, water resistance, clean up, or viscosity. (or even which is within reach) An $8 bottle of glue isn't necessarily any better than a $1.84 one, for the buyer.
Don't forget that Norm has sponsors. ;-)
I use the type III on interior projects, only because I prefer the tanner color over the yellow.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Edited 3/12/2007 8:33 pm ET by BruceS
Both Titebond I & Titebond III will do the job, Type 3 is about 1.5 times as expensive so why use it if you have the type I available. Type 3 is totally water proof and Type I isn't.
Type III has a greater solids content vs. type I, and it does, in fact, have a greater bond strength, lower application temperature (47 (rats! where's that degree symbol on my keyboard?) ) and a longer open time. Is it better? Depends on the glue up. Now, being a person overly influenced by marketing hype, I use type III exclusively (that way I'm covered for when my decides to move the tiger maple chest of drawers out onto the pool patio).
Given that all of these glues will make edge to edge joints stronger than the wood, use the one that works more easily for you. I don't see that color matters. With a properly fitted joint there is no visible glue line to betray the color (except with glues such as resorcinol which can bleed purple into the wood surrounding the joint.)
Hot hide glue will be stronger than any of the packaged wood glues. The liquid hide glue is almost identical to the PVA glues, and the hot hide glue can make bonds considerably stronger than that.
Steve,
I do a lot of carving of wood that has been glued, and even a perfectly tight joint will show the glue if the wood is cut at a very shallow angle to the joint. If the glue in the joint is 1/1000" thick, and the carved cut is at a 10 to 1 angle, then the glue line that shows is 10/1000" wide. That's 1/10"!!!
Unfortunately, I have found that the color of the glue is not always what one would think it is. For instance, Titebond III seems to be a nice mellow brown color, and on the surface seems to be an okay match for gluing cherry. But once it is a glue joint, it appears pretty much the same color as Titebond I, except maybe just a bit more yellow.
Just my observation is all, but basically you are right that the color doesn't matter, if we are talking about the various types of Titebond. They do each have their place in the woodshop though. For instance, Titebond II is the best for bent laminations, or for doing the method of veneering where both surfaces are coated, left to dry, then hot ironed together.
Hal
http://www.rivercitywoodworks.com
You are right -- I had not considered that particular situation. But you should check the math--it works out to 1/100th of an inch which doesn't really hurt your point since I wouldn't call that insignificant either.
Oops! You are right. I was thinking 1/100th, I just didn't put down enough 0's.
1/100" is more than most people think, especially if you think about veneer which is now generally 1/40" thick.
Hal
pz, we got a lesson in that last month (Mel IIRC) ALT 0176= ° , or ALT 248= °. I can't find the thread but FG is also very sharp on keyboard dancing. All the best, Paddy
Yeah, I am aware of the ASCII keycodes, but wasn't sure which one for the degree symbol and didn't have an ASCII chart handy. Figured it out later -- just use Character Map. Thanks, though!
Michael
° ° using the numbers at the right side of the keyboard, press ALT + 0176 NOT THE NUMBERS AT THE TOP!
Edited 3/14/2007 11:19 am ET by Steinmetz
The company website and descriptions on the tubes aren't much help
I wouldn't say that; the website has complete specs for both:
http://www.titebond.com/download/pdf/ww/OriginalTB.pdf
http://www.titebond.com/download/pdf/ww/UltimateIIITB.pdf
Edited 3/13/2007 2:22 am by BarryO
Dear GWB,
Both products will serve you well. The Titebond 3 will give you more "open" time, in that it takes longer to setup, but the dried glue is tough to get off your hands. It's not as bad as a polyurethane glue, but it is a pain to remove. Save the Titebond 3 for exterior projects.
Best,
John
Edited 3/14/2007 7:05 pm ET by Jmartinsky
check the date on the container, If its good use it.Ron
For the most part I agree with what most are saying about there not being a huge difference. But I will say that I've been extremely satisfied with the capacity of Titebond III to bond a notoriously "oily" wood like Cocobolo, both to another piece of Cocobolo as well as to Maple. I've heard all manner of "tricks" for getting a good glue bond with Cocobolo and the bottom line in my experience is that III does a spectacular job.
Norm is a very savvy woodworker with tons of practical experience. If he's using Titebond III on an interior application then I would be inclined to trust that he has a very good reason for doing so. Personally, I've never made anything for an exterior application. So the waterproof aspect of III is an irrelevant factor in my choice. I use it because it works very, very well. But for non oily woods I use Titebond II.
Thanks All for the comments. Considering I just glued up dresser #2 with the 'I' I don't feel so uneasy now! I haven't taken a crack at polyurethane glues, and, based on the references, I think I would have to have a good reason to do so! take it easy,
Edited 3/13/2007 6:49 pm ET by GWB
Here's the deal. If you glue up your dresser with type I and drop it off a 30 story building, it will shatter into a gazillion pieces and they'll fly about 50 ft in all directions.
But if you use Type III, they'll only cover about a 40 ft radius.
For all other uses of the dresser, you're good.
Rich
Now some wise a*s*s* will challenge me that the radii are 45' and 35'.
Rich,
Your radius is clearly wrong,, you need to consider diameters of particles smashed in whitworth terms not tradional feet and inches.. after all an inch is simply three barley corns from the middle of the ear, while the whitworth system is a bastardized metric sytem and we all know that you just can't trust the French.. ;-)
Yeah,
But if he finishes the thing with a thin shellac coat vs a heavy shellac . . .
Oh, never mind!
Dear Rich,
After extensive testing, the actual distances were closer to 48' & 38' respectively, and the number of pieces more closely approximated a "bazillion" as opposed to the suggested "gazillion"..................Best,John
C'mon you guys.
Y'all can be wiser a*s*s* than this!
On second thought. Nah!
Hey that sounds like a challange to me.
;-)
Rich,
Don't want to change the subject , but you never answered my question the other day about what options you ordered on your new table with slider. I am seriously considering a purchase and would like to get some idea of what options you got with it and what you paid to have a little better point of reference when I go to purchase. If you'd like to e-mail me outside this discussion that would be great. Thanks for your help!
Danny
Danny,emailed.Rich
http://www.titebond.com/download/pdf/ww/GlueGuideTB.pdf shows working properties and shear strength.
I think all glues are the same. There was even a test in a which they showed that for the most part, gorilla glue and Pva have the same strength on edge joints. I think Gorilla was a little stronger, but guven the foaming and cleanup I would just as soon use PVA.
I like the molding and trim glue. It's thicker and doesn't run. I had some left over from doing some crown molding on a project and i am using it up on regular woodworking joints with no problems.
You have missed one important point, in all the conversations nobody picked up on your statement about your TB I being "around for a while" The code Franklin uses on Titebond glues is printed on the bottle. 5C3475 means the following; the 5 means it was made in 2005 ( too old to use) Franklin recommends one year life. The C means it was made in the 3rd month or March. I have been to lumber yards where every bottle of glue on the selves is out of date. I know people say I've used that bottle for years, but that is a foolish idea. In a project the size of a dresser the cost of glue would not even be 1% and that <1% could ruin your project. III is a better product flat out. I called the service guys at Franklin and they said it is a better product. They said all their glues are great products, it's just that III has more upsides like assembly time, waterproof, but in Michigan the greatest advantage is that it works down to 47 degrees F the other two are 68 degrees. In MI that is usually not happening in the winter in most shops. Unless you are commercial, I never buy a gallon, I buy quarts at Lowes (cheapest and freshest) . I bought a quart Feb. 3 that said 7A3467 That is Jan of 07 ( the other numbers are batch numbers) III also has better gap filing properties than I or II, but that is not saying much since none of them are great.
Terry
Terry,
I will check the date - I hadn't thought about that. I am writing from Bermuda so the 47 degree part of it really doesn't come into the equation much but the wetness perspective might considering our usual high humidity!
Greg
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