I live in a area were there are a lot of poisonous insects,Im in a new place and the other day I went into one of the rooms and there were about 5 black widow spiders, because of this I did some research and found this:
Black widow HABITAT: Black widow spiders are common around wood piles, and are frequently encountered when homeowners carry firewood into the house. Also found under eaves, in boxes, outdoor toilets, meter boxes, and other unbothered places.
Does anyone knows what kind of insectice can I use that I could spray directly to the wood piles without ruining them?
Another concern is if I spray insecticide to the wood piles even if the wood doesnt get stained I dont know about the health hazards of sanding or cutting this wood..?
Thanks!
Replies
I lived for ten years in an area where black widows were abundant. They are not agressive and knowing where they like to hang out gives you ample opportunity to avoid being bitten. I would suggest no pesticide at all as spiders are very beneficial to your environment, just don't stick your unprotected hand in a spot they might be in. If you find one move it to a spot that is out of your way where they can go about their business.
I tend to agree with what dgreen had to say. When delving into long undisturbed wood piles I always wear leather gloves. I usually only go on the offensive when they get a little too close for comfort - like the one I found in the lower cabinet of my band saw - and those are dealt with on a case basis.
But, as to your question, I would get advice from a professional exterminator as I am not aware of any off-the-shelf insecticides that are truly effective against spiders.
Bob
I'll ditto DG and Bob with only going on the offensive if you really feel threatened as they serve a purpose in balance. Kind of like killing king snakes cause you don't like snakes and wondering why mice suddenly appeared. Of course with a note that you do have to use reasonable caution with the black widow as it is poisonous and you are aware that you and the BW are sharing the same basic habitat.
Regards...
SARGE..
I had several at my previous house. One was a huge female. To educate the kids I did not want to squish the bugger. I used wasp and hornet killer and it worked very well. I showed the kids what it was and to stay away should they see any more around the houlse and come get me. Of course wasp and hornet killer would only work on an acutal known boggy, but professional exterminator could help you out for sure. I generally leave the occasional spider alone, exept for the nasty ones.
My shop is in the basement. I get alot of spiders and crickets. I have a laquer spray job to do soon. I was thinking of just spraying with the window shut and then lighting a cigar. It aught to kill all the spiders in the following fireball.
Try looking for a microencapsulated pyrethoid(sp). I live in farm country in Ohio. We get monsterous Wolf spiders which are harmless and some Brown Recluse which are poisonous. I hate spiders anyway. The hard thing about killing spiders is that you have get the poison to the surface of their body. They all have microscopic hair that doesn't allow dried wasp spray or similar stuff to get them. So you ahve to see them and spray them directly to kill them. The microencapsulated stuff dries and sticks to thier hair. Then they die. The nice thing about it is you can spray where they crawl so it sticks to them when they move. I sprayed my basement and garage a year ago and have only recently seen them start to come back. it says to spray every 3-6 months. It's expensive though. I think I paid $80 for about a pint which makes a ton, but is still expensive.
Magnus
"Remember, a bad carpenter always blames his tools" -Joe Conti-
When I lived in CA I seldom had Black Widows if I was always working in my shop. If I didn't then they seemed to show up.
During certain times of the year they seemed like they were out more than at other times.
To get rid of any bugs in my shop I used a fogger that was activated by water. There was no butane propellant in the product. It was a dry material in a can which could be activated by water to produce heat and create a fog which killed the bugs inside my shop. It got rid of all the earwigs, spiders and any other bugs present. I would set off a few of them at the end of the day with the doors closed and then come back in the morning to remove them.
The fogger I used was the Raid Fumigator
It can be seen at
http://www.acehardware.com/sm-raid-fumigator-51528-6-pack--pi-1375194.html
Edited 9/26/2006 11:27 am by gb93433
I use my shoe. it makes a pleasing popuisch sound. I get a lot of satisfaction from doing things by hand. afterward I can look at the mushed bug and admire my work with the pride and satisfaction that comes from a job well done.
Pardon my spelling,
Mike
Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.
I lived with black widows for years when I had a horse business down in the Sacramento Valley. Never bothered with insecticides. Just wore gloves (always!) and kept a close eye out when working around piles of lumber and railroad ties, or in dark corners of the feed shed. They generally are not aggressive. You'll never get enough poison in there to provide a permanent solution, and that stuff is NASTY!!
The most aggravating thing about them, IMHO, is their webs which are strong and stringy.
I say, no big deal, just be alert.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 9/27/2006 1:01 pm by forestgirl
Spiders on the whole are great insects (yet they freak me out) and they are everwhere. I once heard a statistic that suggests that you are NEVER more than three feet away from a spider.
The one way to control spiders is to eliminate their food source - other insects. In other words, if you are finding spiders, there are other bugs the spiders are surviving on.
That might mean "hermitically" sealing your shop, vacuuming it well, running a dehumidifier, and potentially using pesticides, and being careful about what you bring into the shop (fire wood being the obvious worst thing you could bring in, and building lumber that has dried outside being the second worst :-)
Mark
Mark it with Chalk,
Cut it with an Ax.
Visit my woodworking blog Dust Maker
"That might mean 'hermitically' sealing your shop, vacuuming it well, running a dehumidifier, and potentially using pesticides...." Goodness.
Am I the only one around here who grew up at ease with nature?!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 9/27/2006 10:57 pm by forestgirl
FG,
My shop is loaded with spiders... I'm just suggesting how one might rid onself of them. Of course, my spiders (I treat them almost like pets :-) are not particularly dangerous to humans as I suspect is true of yours as well. We in the northern latitudes are lucky (provided the planet stays cool) because we don't get many poisonous snakes or spiders...The worst spider we have to deal with in New England is the Brown Recluse:
View ImageThe bite is not fatal, but can be if untreated. It starts as a necrosis (eating away of the tissue at the bit site).To my knowledge, in 45 years I've never seen one.MarkMeasure it with a Micrometer,
Mark it with Chalk,
Cut it with an Ax.
Visit my woodworking blog Dust Maker
Edited 9/28/2006 1:11 pm ET by MarkRD
"To my knowledge, in 45 years I've never seen one." And I hope you never do! Nothing here on the west side of the Cascades for us to worry about, though that doesn't stop my husband or my step-daughter. The most entertaining one we have is the European House Spider which I call "woofy spider" because when they're big, they look like they'd bark! This time of they year, we find 2 or 3 a week and relocate them outside (where I'm sure they're very unhappy). Hopefully, they make a trek under the house and do OK there.
PS: To make a link like that, highlight the words (e.g., Brown Recluse in your paragraph), then click on the globe icon in the toolbar. Paste the URL in there.
Long live arachnids!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hey All,I have to agree with the folks that say live and let live. Pesticides are going to create more problems than they're worth (Do you really want to deal with pesticide laden sawdust?).BTW spiders aren't insects, they're arachnids (8 legs, not 6).Tom
Edited 9/27/2006 11:55 pm ET by tms
I once heard a statistic that suggests that you are NEVER more than three feet away from a spider.
Swimming pool.
Next statistic? Heh.My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
"I once heard a statistic that suggests that you are NEVER more than three feet away from a spider.
Swimming pool.
Next statistic? Heh."
John,
You should see the size of the spiders that like to swim in my pool! Fortuantely, they're poor swimers. ;o)
I spray a barrier around the shop, keep things as clean as possible, spray where they hide, and stomp on 'em when I see 'em. In spite of my actions, I don't think we will ever run out of spiders.Rennie
A man is a fool if he drinks before he reaches the age of 50, and a fool if he doesn't afterward. Frank Lloyd Wright
Astrain,
I'd add these three experiences of spider and insect "control" I'm using in the shop. Whether or not I can actually prove it works, I did purchase one of the electronic pest boxes you simply plugin to a wall socket. It's supposed to use the building's wiring and a silent electrical frequency to drive away pests. From the relatively respected sales channel, "QVC", I bought and plugged it in a wall socket in between the personnel door and the rollup garage door. I can count on one hand the number of crickets, bugs, and spiders I've seen inside the passed year... Zero number of mice.
The second thing is I'm taking advantage of "Summer Closeout Sales" of summer seasonal items. I bought for 20-cents on the dollar, one of those blue light "bug zappers". I planned to hang it from the ceiling in the most distant corner of the shop to take care of those flying bugs that slip into the shop when the door opens.
To help keep out those flying bugs to begin with, I found a closeout on 4 wooden screendoors. Selling for $65 each, but because the nylon screening was pushed out in one top corner of each one, I got them for $7.50 each. I plan to make a large bifolding screendoor that will cover the 10' wide garage door opening and let in only the cool fall and spring evening and night breezes...
Bill
"I plan to make a large bifolding screendoor that will cover the 10' wide garage door opening and let in only the cool fall and spring evening and night breezes..." Great idea! Hope you post some pics.
As to that bug-zapper, pretty innocuous inside the shop, but I really hate those things in general -- outside -- they kill way more beneficial bugs than they do the named targets.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Forestgirl,
The screen doors I found are 32" wide. So, triming an inch from each side, then adding an extra width to the top and bottom should allow me to make them fit nicely.
Doing the extra work on such bargain costs, allows me to stretch the old dollar. Remember that old saying:
"A Dollar Saved is another Dollar
that can be spent on the Workshop."
Bill
Found two of these in my house when I lived in Australia (New South Wales Coast). Both times in the laundry room near moist places. This is the mack-daddy of spiders to be wary of.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Atrax_robustus.jpg
"mack-daddy of spiders" -- as well it should be with a name like Atrax robustus! Wow, they carry some serious poison! Was interested to see it's in the same suborder as the tarantulas, which is what it first reminded me of. I bought one for a preschool program years ago. Teachers were fine with it until it "got lost" one day! ROFL! They found it though.
Wishing you the best -- glad they don't live in USA-Northwest.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Jump back Jack! That is one fierce looking arachnid. Here in the Pacific Northwest I have a live and let live philosophy with the spiders, usually trap and put the bigger ones out near the worm composting bin (target rich environment). However, if I saw Mack Daddy, I think I would lower my head, avert my eyes, and back away slowly, and quietly say "I'll be back."
Then, I would grab the "6 Horsepower" shop vacuum, and try to determine whether a 5 cm spider would fit into a 2 1/4" tube. Afterwards, I would spend the rest of the day and night wondering whether it was safe to turn off the vacuum. Nooooooo--I think I like it here where the most venomous thing we deal with is a Bellevue housewife at the end of a long line at Starbucks.
"Afterwards, I would spend the rest of the day and night wondering whether it was safe to turn off the vacuum." ROFL!! I've done that!
Last night, on the way to bed, I saw the biggest "Woofie Spider" (European house spider) I'd ever, ever seen, in the bathroom. Called hubby and he wrapped it in a tissue and transplanted it outside. Returning, he said "I didn't know they got that big!" I replied: "I'm not sure I wanted to know." Yikes! They're harmless though. I just don't want one visiting the bedroom some night, LOL.
PS: You live near the lake? What's it like -- I've never been over there. Tend to get lost anytime I travel east of Seattle.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 9/30/2006 2:06 pm by forestgirl
Global warming is making the spiders bigger :-)Measure it with a Micrometer,
Mark it with Chalk,
Cut it with an Ax.
Visit my woodworking blog Dust Maker
Measure it with a Micrometer,Mark it with Chalk,Cut it with an Ax.
Poor spider..... ROFL.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Thanks everyone! you all have been very helpful. Yesterday after three days of not going to my shop I found the machinery covered with spider web, it wasnt a lot but it wasnt very little at all and found another 5 black widows, 3 in the unused room (where I found the first 5) and one just below in a place were I usually sit and the other in the door knob, and I suspect there are a couple more hidden. So if this continues I suspect its going to be a matter of time before I get bitten, I dont know maybe Im paranoic, maybe its because when I was a little younger I once put my shoes to go to work and five hours latter when I arrived back at my house and took my shoes off ,from one of them came crawling a black widow spider, I was lucky cause it seem it didnt bite me because the spider was pressed beetwen my sock and the shoe.
Ten years later after that I still always shake my shoes really hard.Thanks.
Wow! I don't blame you for being nervous!!! Don't know what to say..... The fact that they are spinning near/around your machinery, rather than in corners and under/between boards is kinda weird. Question: Are there piles of wood or anything else outside the building? I'm wondering if they are simply expanding their territory from just outside, to inside.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
When I was a kid*, we had a workroom that was attached to the garage. Whenever we encountered a Black Widow, it called for a thorough vacuuming of the area. Also, whenever we saw an egg sac, we physically got rid of it. Our encounters with the Black Widows were accordingly few.
Perhaps, if you could thoroughly clean the area, and also look for any openings where the spiders might be entering from under the house, you could reduce the population. The egg sacs contain hundreds of eggs, so it's not surprising that you are seeing many spiders, having seen a few.
http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/2000/pdf/2061A.pdf
Is a pretty good fact sheet, if you haven't seen it, yet. I really don't believe that you must be resigned to being prey--you can prevail in your workshop. Good luck!
*I can't tell you that it was in Southern California, as I have only lived in Washington State for 44 years and might be asked to leave.
Edited 10/2/2006 11:51 am ET by BobMc
Hi forestgirl, I have to say that Im aware that there are a couple of things that are causing this, 1 I dont go to this place all days(Im starting formally the bussiness until january) Im going there 2 to 3 fives a week, the other days the place is in the dark and alone.2 I live in a desertic area but this season has been kind of weird , here raining is kind of uncomon but this year it rained almost all days in a period of 2 months, so now there are a lot of insects, mosquitos(READ a lot of food for the spiders).I think they are around the machinery cause the machines itself I think are good places for the spiders they can enter thru the dust port like a cave and live inside the machine, I dont know I havent opened the machines to see its just a guess.Black widow spiders are common here, but I havent seen this much I mean Ive killed 10 in a period of one week.I will be trying several insecticides that the other ones in the forum had mention to see what works best until I open the shop.Thanks :-)
Ohhhhh, they love "dark and alone"!! If you can find the egg sacs and destroy them, that'd go a long ways toward keeping the population down. Be careful though, they can get aggressive if mom is there (alive) when you go after the eggs.
I think you're probably right about the increase in food generating a big boost in the spider population. And you may have had a bunch of eggs hatch -- oh dear. Best of luck getting them under control. Be vigilant, and you'll be safe! Good luck with the new business!!
PS: When you start up a machine, you might want to stand back and watch it run for a minute or two. <gruesome grin>
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 10/2/2006 8:39 pm by forestgirl
I know this is a little off subject, but hearing about your spider in the house reminded me of this. My dad is an entomologist. His job was to help people get rid of insects in their crops and their houses, but people would call him with other problems as well. He got a call one day about Rattlesnakes under someone's home. He went to investigate and he said that when you walked across the floor you could hear lots and lots of Rattlesnakes under the house rattling.
Vertical lumber storage, sweep the lumber from time to time, leave a small light on in the shop. Keep the shop clean. I've been bitten by a brown recluse. It's no fun unless you like pain and seeing your flesh rot away
Spray the ones you see with wasp spray (or just jab them with the end of a corn broom) as another poster mentioned. Make them find another place to live.
Edited 9/28/2006 12:49 pm ET by CStanford
Insecticides sprayed or left around won't work on spiders, insects clean themselves and ingest the poison after walking through it, but a spider won't.
Sorry I don't have an answer for you but no need wasting money on insecticides. The wasp spray, or other sprays with a direct hit may just do the job but that's a case by case killing spree. I lived in So Cal most of my life and had them all around, never even knew anyone that had gotten bit, but I had to go on a spree occasionally of course to relieve my wife's fears. She appears to be allergic to spider bites in general, my weapon of choice was any aerosol and a bic lighter, but I don't recommend that of course ;-).
mousejockey
Last summer, I had the pleasure of watching a yellow jacket get caught in a spider web. The spider came out of its hole, and after quite a battle, the yellow jacket was killed.
Spiders went up about 1000% in stature in my book after that.
If you haven't figured it out already, I absolutely, absolutely detest those little mean, aggressive, good for nuthin' yellow jackets.
Look for any aerosol spray containing Cyfluthrin. There was one available under the name of Big Max. Professional exterminators utilize a product called Tempo SC Ultra. Mixed with water, when dry forms a powder that is long lasting. It is labeled for spiders as well as other household pests. This product is cleared for use in food prep areas, however you wouldn't want to ingest or breath much of it
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