OK, this has been discussed before, but the specs keep changing. I want to get an 8″ jointer and I’m thinking of the Yorkcraft YC8J which now has been upgraded to a 2hp motor and 4 cutter head, rack and pinion fence. Delivered with lift gate for $790.
The equivalent Grizzly G0586 would be $5 more but doesn’t have a built-in mobile base and I don’t think that is lift-gate delivery.
The Grizz G0490 of course has a built-in base and parallelogram beds, plus an extra HP for less than $100 more (and no lift-gate for that price). But I hear it is made in China.
Are the other two also Chinese or Taiwanese? Overall is the parallelogram design significant? How much use would the dovetailed ways need to endure before needing to be shimmed? Wilke seems to have great service from what I have read, but I do wish they had a parallelogram jointer since that seems to be the direction more are headed in.
Jake
Replies
The parallogram is far superior and found typically on the high end Eropean jointer. It allows independent four poit adjustment of each table. On a dovetailed way jointer if the table is off or warped the entire machine must be ground to correct any problems. A parallelogram jointer can have the table removed and ground individually and replaced.
I disagree. Saying that a parallelogram design is "far superior" overstates the case by a mile and a half. There are some advantages to the parallelogram design, particularly in the way the cutter head moves in relationship to the tables. I have used different jointers, some parallelogram, others dovetailed. I have never had any that had to go back for regrinding. The newer dovetail jointers have better adjustments/gibb screws to align the tables and seldom require shims.I bought the Grizzly 593 last year- it's an 8" machine with dovetailed ways and a spiral cutterhead. I aligned it about 8 months ago and I check it from time to time with a 48" machinist's straight edge, but it has remained dead-on. I have no problems with trueness of the cut.The reason I favored this model is that it has a spiral cutterhead. In my opinion, knife changing and alignment is a much more common headache than table alignment. The SC is carbide, and can be replaced piecewise as needed. If a cutting element develops a nick (unlikely with carbide), you can rotate it 90 degrees without moving the head at all. This is much simpler than replacing/realigning HSS knives, at least in my experience.My advice to a potential buyer is to pick your price point, and look at models that fit your budget. I suspect that, depending on your budget, you may have to chose between features (parallelogram vs dovetailed, HSS knives vs spiral cutterhead). For me, the cutterhead was a more compelling feature than a parallelogram design. Your mileage may vary...Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
The table movement in a parallogram jointer is a minor point in my opinion. I work on machines and have reground over a dozen jointers over the years so I have my reasons for favoring the parallelogram. My real favorite type of adjustment is the inclined ways of the old Oliver and Crescent jointers. Much easier to remove a table and regrind. As far as cutter heads, I can change the knives on a 4 knife 20" jointer in 20 minutes but it took a lot of practice to get that fast. The new heads are great for people who struggle with knife changing.
Hmmmmmm. All due respect, I think that few WWrs, amateur or professional, have had to regrind a dozen jointer tables in the course of their time in a shop(perhaps I just hang around with a more sedate crowd).On the other hand, even if you can change HSS knives in 20 minutes, I would still favor the carbide spiral head for the following reasons:1. Carbide lasts much longer than HSS.
2. You can change or rotate a carbide cutting element in one tenth the time (<2 minutes).
3. There are few things more annoying than developing a nick in a recently changed HSS knife. Not only is this less of a problem with a carbide spiral cutter, it can be fixed very easily by rotating the element.I know of few WWrs who like changing jointer knives, even with jigs. As a result, I think there is a tendency not to do so until you bloody well have to. Given how easy it is to do so on a spiral cutting head, I think your statement that "The new heads are great for people who struggle with knife changing" is misleading. The new heads are better for just about everybody.Just my 2p,Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
I've been to trade schools, custom and cimmercial shops to work on machines. It's been over a period of 20 or so years of having a dozen jointer tables resurfaced and the grinding shop I use get at least a few a year so it is more common than most would realize but certainly a low number overall.
You are right about people putting off changing jointer knifes until the last minute. Carbide lasts 8 times longer and if you figure 8 less knife changes and you can rotate the cutter four times it's more economical than many realize. HSS is initially sharpen in the beginning but that only lasts so long.
I wasn't against insert heads but I do think that parallelogram tables are a better system. I think all the European jointers now use it. I do admit it's a lot harder to remove a table than a dovetailed ways jointer but having the four point adjustment is nice. Going to adjust a DJ30 in the next week of so. Seems a shop was struggling with a tilted table and had no clue how to fix it.
Buy a used machine. For $800 you can get one heck of a used jointer. At tomorrows auction the 16" Moak may go for that much. If I get it I'll sell my 16" Sidney.
DJK
I have to agree with Glaucon if you are a hobbyist. The dovetail ways should be good on the day of your funeral. If you are young, so that day is a long way off, carbide cutters make even more sense as you will spend many hours until then changing & sharpening blades. BTW, if you opt for regular blades, have a spare set which you keep sharp -- just in case. I have the YC8J 1.5 HP 3 knife unit & spare knives. I am an old guy. Grizzly had not dropped their prices at the time I bought or I would have a Griz plus about $100 more in the bank. I really like the fence & the mobile base has proved to be a necessity. Actually, 3 knives & 1.5 HP is plenty. I really don't understand the horsepower race among tool manufacturers. We really didn't need it in cars & we don't need it in our shops either especially since the ratings are phony anyway.
Cadiddlehopper
So, what's wrong with a used machine?
DJK
"So, what's wrong with a used machine?" Probably nothing if you find a good tool at a good price. I diligently shopped for one, even on ebay, before buying new. But most folks don't treat tools with the care that I do plus used ones sell for too much in my neck of the woods. I got better value buying new even if it was made by Asians. Some new tools offer improvements over older stuff, too, believe it or not! Tablesaw rip fences are a great example. So is my rack&pinion jointer fence.Cadiddlehopper
Nothing is wrong with used if one can be found (that isn't in need of complete rebuilding). I have come across 2 used 8" jointers in the past year. One when I wasn't planning to buy a jointer and I lost out. It was a 50s/60s Rockwell that went at auction for $340. Had been shimmmed, but was in good shape. The other was an 80s Powermatic that needed some serious elbow grease (it had been in a shop right on the ocean) for $600, so I passed.
Jh
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