Replies

1. 
   ring | Jun 10, 2007 11:47am | #1

   Depends somewhat on what you want the meter for. Are you drying wood yourself? Just want to check the MC of what you're buying? How much accuracy do you need?

   I have a Wagner pinless meter which I use to check lumber before buying. It's quick and easy to use, and accurate enough for my purposes. I can walk around a yard and check without knocking pins into boards. A tolerance of ±1% doesn't matter in this case.

   On the other hand, if I were drying my own I'd probably invest in a very good pin meter.

   David Ring

   http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e

2. 
   JeffHeath | Jun 10, 2007 03:02pm | #2

   I've been using the Lignomat mini for about 10 years now (approx. ,  I can't remember things as well anymore).  I use it for checking wood I'm going to purchase, but also use it for checking on lumber I'm drying myself, with excellent results.  It has never failed me.

   It was about $100 back then, but I don't know how much it costs now. 

   It is of the pin variety.

   Jeff

3. 
   nikkiwood | Jun 10, 2007 03:37pm | #3

   I have a Wagner pinless meter that's 10+ years old. I use it the same way ring does.

   The problem is, it is calibrated for Doug Fir, so if you are checking moisture on another species, you have to look it up in the accompanying booklet and make the conversion.

   With the advances in digital electronics, I would imagine someone must be making a meter these days where all this is unnecessary.

   ********************************************************
   "It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."

   John Wooden 1910-

4. 
   PADDYDAHAT | Jun 10, 2007 04:49pm | #4

   MP, I picked up the Wagner pinless that LeeValley.com sells for @$260 it's pinless, can lock in a reading you had to reach across a pile to get, adjustable for almost any wood and there is an extra chart that they can email you for conversion of realllly dense strange woods.

   I think it's the model 210- the middle one of three- where the first is too bare bones and the third is more than I need for the money.  My sawyer is quite pleased that I am not poking holes in his stock. It works great. Enjoy, Paddy

5. 
   forestgirl | Jun 10, 2007 06:14pm | #5

   You can get a fine meter for your $300 budget.  Paddy's advice on the Wagner pinless would be good to heed.  I have the Delmhorst J-lite, which is a pinned model and was all I could afford.  It's an excellent meter and accepts accessories, which is good, but the pins don't go to the lumberyard with me -- that's the big advantage to the pinless. 

   If you're main objective is to check "regular" lumber, the pinless will work great.  A pinned meter is more oriented to very rough stock.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 
   
6. 
   frenchy | Jun 11, 2007 10:45pm | #6

   mp72

    Can't decide?

    

    well whatever brand someone has is the best.. Nobody that I know buys something and thinks it's junk.

    I've owned a Lingomat mini lingo for nearly 7 years and it's worked well. it's a pin type but I check rough sawn wood mostly so a few pin marks don't show on the finished product.. It still costs about $99.00 at seven corners hardware in St. Paul  Yes they sell on line and phone..

   
   

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   Edited 6/11/2007 3:47 pm ET by frenchy

7. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Jun 16, 2007 03:34am | #7

   Am I missing something here?

   The tree is cut down.  It is then milled into boards, perhaps kiln or air dried.

   We purchase same and bring it to our woodshop where we let it acclimate to our woodshop environment.  After a while we cut it up into sized pieces for the project at hand, and then, as conventional wisdom suggests we sticker it to let the wood settle down even more.

   Then we mill the pieces to size, cut the required joinery, perhaps let the wood settle some more.  Then we apply a finish to seal the wood.

   Then we place the finished product in what might be a completely different environment than our woodshop!

   What benefit does a moisture meter really provide, given the above?  Granted, the drier the wood the more stable it will be to work with.

   Regards,

    

   Bob @ Kidderville Acres

    

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

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   Edited 6/15/2007 8:37 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres

   
   

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   Edited 6/15/2007 8:39 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres

1. 
   BG | Jun 16, 2007 05:17am | #8

   Kidder,

   I've come up with two uses for the meter: testing before and after glue up to ensure additional shrinkage won't take place and your finish sanding too soon, and, to test current moisture against parameters so that fitting a drawer is niether too loose or too tight.  

2. 
   caub | Jun 16, 2007 06:20am | #9

   I'm w/ Kidder on this, but everyone's MO is different. As a hobbiest ww'er, I always end up buying the wood for a project several weeks before I begin milling - at least! So, as long as you're buying "dry" lumber, who cares whether it is 6, 8, 10% EMC? It's going to be in my shop, stickered and stacked for several weeks - AND (this is my MO) - where I have a digital hygrometer that tracks the low and high relative humidity (RH) in my shop. That, and the chart from Hoadley's book (or other resources) that show the relationship between RH and EMC, is all I really need.I live in the Sierra foothills of N.CA. We have dry summers (last rain was a couple weeks ago, and we likely won't see any again 'til September or October!) The RH in my shop swings from a dry 15-20% around 5pm, to maybe 30-40% at 5am. As long as it keeps cycling like that (for a few weeks), pick the midpoint (say 25-30%) and convert to EMC. Winters are different - we get lots of rain, so lots of humidity; I end up running a dehumidifier in my shop that can hold the RH around 50%. But the priciple is the same: know your RH, know your EMC.Chris

3. 
   ring | Jun 16, 2007 05:20pm | #10

   Bob,You're not missing anything within the framework of your needs. But others have different requirements. Two cases in point:1. Last week I bought 8000 bd ft of sapele. Most of it is going to be milled into T$G flooring and I don't have the luxury of letting it acclimate to anything. I wanted to be sure that all of it, each of the 4 pallets, was 8-9% MC.2. I often buy lumber on the phone without ever having seen it. Once in a while I get a delivery of French Oak that I refuse to take off the truck because the MC is too high. When I call the supplier and tell him that I don't want it because the MC is 15%, one of 2 things happens-
   He takes it back without further discussion, or he says "OK, let it stand by you and pay me in 6 months". That one phone call saved me the $200 cost of a moisture meter. Am I missing something here?David Ring

   http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e

4. 
   forestgirl | Jun 16, 2007 09:38pm | #11

   I use mine primarily to be sure all the stock for a given project is at the same MC.  Not precisely, but very, very close.  There's no guarantee that when I grab two boards out of a stack at the lumberyard they are from the same batch from the kiln, or even from the same supplier.  I don't know much about drying lumber, but I can certainly guess that something  could go wrong and I might end up with 2 boards that are 3% apart in MC.  Acclimating in my shop for a week isn't going to bring them within 1% or less, I'd guess.

    forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

1. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Jun 18, 2007 02:38pm | #13

   forestgirl,

   Your reasons make absolute sense.  All my boards are cut/made from trees, sent to the sawyer and kiln dried so I know what I have.  I'm sure that makes quite a difference.

   I have a friend who is a logger.  He cuts the trees and drags them out of the woods with horses, the ol' fashund way.  He has, over the years, called me when he has found a good un, as he calls 'em.  I let him know what I'm looking for and he calls me.  I go over, pick it up and take it to the sawyer.

   I guess I should count my blessings when it comes to my woodsupplier.

   Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres

    

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

1. 
   forestgirl | Jun 18, 2007 06:33pm | #15

   "I guess I should count my blessings when it comes to my woodsupplier."  Absolutely!

   "as she sometimes has to deal with different suppliers for the same type of wood (at least that was one point I thought she made...."  Slightly off:  There's always the possibility that lumber in a given stack does not come from the same supplier, or at least wasn't dried in the same batch.

   The most drastic difference I've seen in lumber was when buying construction materials to make John White's Newfangled Bench.  There were boards in there that were as much as 5% different from each other.  Obviously, I'd not expect that from my hardwood supplier, but I want the bench to set up well too!

   Cheers!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

1. 
   MP72 | Jun 21, 2007 01:25am | #16

   I want to thank everyone for their ideas. I decided to get the Wagner 205. Woodcraft had a 15% off sale is St. Louis this last weekend. I buy most of my lumber S2S from a hardwood dealer. It is all kiln dried but I wanted to make sure all the wood for a certain project would be close in MC. IT may prove that I didnt need to spend that money but I have several pieces of furniture to make for clients and I now have the piece of mind that the lumber was right when it left my shop.

5. 
   frenchy | Jun 18, 2007 12:47am | #12

   Bob,

    Let me answer that question for you. Wood doesn't dry at a uniform rate.. the standard rate is inch inch per year but I've seen wood that is 7 years old have far too much moisture to work with..

     If you do a lot of work on a piece it's nice to not have the piece shrink or warp or whatever after you've invested hours upon hours in it if the wood isn't ready..

     Think of the $99.00 a decent moisture meter costs as a labor saving device..

1. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Jun 18, 2007 02:51pm | #14

   frenchy,

   Thanks for the info.  Also, foresgirl makes some good points as she sometimes has to deal with different suppliers for the same type of wood (at least that was one point I thought she made unless I misunderstood).

   So if I'm understanding this, as long as all pieces are nearly the same MC (drier being better) during the milling/build phase that's what we strive for.  And, depending on the environment of the pieces destination, we may need to make adjustments to the joints, if there are great swings in the MC of the wood.

   The moisture meter helps to make the determination.  As you state, $99 is a small price to pay.

   Regards,

    Bob @ Kidderville Acres

    

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!