Which of these jointers would you pick?
HoustonHeights
| Posted in General Discussion on
Which of these jointers would you choose:
Powermatic PJ882 (8″ Parallelogram)
Delta DJ20 (8″ Parallelogram)
General 480-1 M2 (8″ not parallelogram)
I’ve narrowed my search down to these three machines. Currently, I’m leaning towards the Powermatic, but am open to suggestions. Also, are there any machines in this general price/quality range that I should also consider?
Replies
I used to have that same General jointer. I sold it about 6 years ago. I used it for about 5 years before I sold it.
When I bought it it was one of the most expensive in it's class. All I can say is that it was worth the money.
The tables were flat, the fence was straight and it stayed in tune for the whole time I used it.
I don't know about the other machines you listed but General has a pretty good reputation for some quality machines.
I would buy another if I were in the market for an 8' jointer.
J.P.
JP -- Thanks for your reply. The General has made my short list for the very reasons you mention. Here's my dilema: the specs of the General are not nearly as attractive as the Powermatic or Delta (significantly shorter bed, weaker motor) and the price is signficantly higher (the Powermatic and Delta are in the $1600 range while the General is "on sale" at $2500). Is the difference in quality plus the fact that the General is made in North America worth the shorter bed and higher price? That isn't a rhetorical question. My nightmare scenario would be to purchase the Powermatic or Delta and be faced with quality issues. I want to buy a machine that will outlast me and not need much attention. Thoughts? Is a Canadian made machine really that much better?
I would definitely favor the parallelogram bed design. Delta has a proven track record with the DJ20 but the PM is the new contender. Personally I'd be looking used if I was in the market. I can ususally find ten times the machine for a fraction of the money. My last jointer was a 16" Oliver for $1750 and a few hundred dollars to have the beds reground but I was doing machine repair for a living so new all the possible pitfall. Have seen large jointers go at auctions for literally $100. There's a nice 12" Crescent jointer in Mass for $1,600. Crescents are great machines.
Edited 12/9/2005 10:34 am ET by RickL
It's all in the castings. As long as you get a machine with flat tables and a fence that is not twisted then you are good to go. When I bought my general the sales rep told me that the tables and fences are cast then ground and left to sit and move, then reground before being put together. Supposedly this method helps to maintain table flatness and prevent the fence from twisting.I have seen more than my fair share of lesser quality machines with badly twisted parts.There is no doubt that the general is a quality machine but you also pay for it. I used mine full time and never had a problem with it being under powered. $900 is quite a bit of money to have what seems to be less features, but many times you get what you pay for.Honestly I don't think you can go wrong with any of the machines you have selected. Besides if you get a bad machine, many times the dealers will do what they need to make it right. Just make sure to buy from a reputable dealer so you can get the customer service you need.J.P.http://www.jpkfinefurniture.com
Thanks to all that took the time to respond. I appreciate your input.
J.P.,
You are within a few dollars of going bigger, longer, and more Hp. with the 10" Oliver 4042 jointer. It's a China made version of the old Oliver name.
It weighs-in at 900 lbs., an 84" length, and a width of a 10" wide & 4-blade cutterhead. I comes with a triple belt drive powered by a "Baldor Industrial" 3 hp. motor. I've seen it priced from $1,895 to $2,200 through....
http://www.sunhillmachinery.com
Bill
Which one has the longest combined bed length, the most convenient and reliable controls, and is the easiest when it comes to blade changing?
These machines are all solid workhorses. All things being equal, I'd opt for the one with the longest bed.
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
The Powermatic has the longest bed length at 82" (the Delta is 76.5"; the General is 64").
I'm not certain about the differences between controls and blade change features. Can anybody help me out here? What differences are there between the Delta and Powermatic control-wise. Is it easier to change blades on one machine or another?
It is getting increasingly difficult to compare machines in person. Few of the woodworking stores in my area (Woodcraft, Cutting Edge, Rockler) still keep these machines on the floor for customers to look at.
I just bought the Powermatic and like it very much. I bought it from Amazon and was nervous about the delivery but that worked out very well. I live in the country but the truck has a lift gate and the driver did a very good job.
The fense assembly came off in transit and cracked the rabbit ledge which Powermatic replaced very quickly. I also has some questions for their technical department and they were very helpful.
Even though both the Delta and Powermatic are made in Taiwan I believe I feel better about a large purchase made in Taiwan than mainland China.
So far I have jointed about 12 cherry boards and they have come out very nicely.
Do you like the adjustment mechanisms for the fence and the tables?
What about blade changes? Did you have to install the blades? If so, are there adjustment skrews or anything else that made that easier?
The September issue of American Woodworker rated several eight inch jointers. Of their rating, the PJ 882 was the winner. They didn't have the "General", however. It cited the pedestal switch as being ideally located but complained that the working surface was further back requiring the operator to extend his arms a little further to operate it. I took special interest in the article as I am interested in a different jointer also. A copy may be worth your while. And of course these forums help. What bothers me about the PJ 882 is they listed the price as being $1500. The cheapest I've found is "Tool Crib" at $1700.
Thanks tinkerer2! I'll track down a copy of that article.
Fwiw WJ Redmond Machinery in Atlata is running a recon and scratch and dent sale ........... they have the PJ882 for $1249.95. Shipping may prove to be a deal killer but I'd think it's worth looking into.
http://www.redmond-machinery.com/specials.htm
Edited 12/13/2005 11:09 am ET by jc21
Thank for the tip
Hi,
I own the General 480. Please note that there is some incorrect info in another post about bed length. General increased the length of the bed to 74", but there could be older stock somewhere at the shorter length.
General is about the last North American made machinery (aside from a company like Northfield), but it is also machinery that will last a lifetime. I don't buy the parallelogram as a "superior" design argument, but it is easier to manufacture than dovetails.
My General is in a one man shop, and I have never had to do anything to tune it or modify it or anything. It is always right on. AS a long term investment, I would go with the General if you can swing it.
However...it I did one thing differently in setting up my shop, it would be to have purchased a larger jointer to begin with. Magazines all deal with the 8" jointer as the "big one', which is a complete joke. I will at some point purchase a larger jointer, and it will be 16 inches. I would buy the largest jointer you can afford.
My machinery guy told me General just raised prices again, so look around, you may find one at the older price structure. I also own a General 650 tablesaw which is very sweet.
Edited 12/13/2005 9:37 am ET by pellaz
Pellaz,
Thank you for correcting me on the bed length for the General 8 inch. As you correctly pointed out, the bed length of the current model 480 is 74 inches, not 64 inches as stated in my previous post. That makes a huge difference. See http://www.general.ca/pagemach/machines/0general/480_1a.html.
You make a strong case for the General. I certainly want quality machine that is not going to need constant attention. I'm not certain about your comment about the parallelogram design. My understanding is that over time tables sag or come out of allignment. A machine with dovetail ways has to have the tables reground, while a machine with parallelogram design can be readjusted to bring the tables back into allignment. Am I mistaken?
I initially planned on purchasing a 12" or 16" jointer. After much thought, however, I changed my mind. For the difference in price between most high end 12" and an 8" jointers I can purchase a LN scrub, jack, jointer, and smoother plane. With those tools I can flatten ANY board, while a 12" jointer still restricts me to boards less than 12". As a hobbiest, I can take the extra time to flatten a wide board by hand. I enjoy the opportunity to hone a handskill. In fact, I purposely put off buying a jointer until now because I wanted to make sure that I developed the handskill before I started relying on a machine to do the work for me. While I look forward to having the convenience of using a jointer in the future, I don't necessarily want to stop working by hand. There is something very therapeutic about flattening a wide board by hand.
Hi Again,
Yes you are right that one has to balance the occasional need to flatten something wide with the opportunity to build a complete workshop. I have flattened a wide board using a planer by mounting and shimming that wide board on a sled. Another thing I have considered is setting up a system of router rails. One can work on difficult materials of odd size using such a set-up. I have a 24-inch wide piece of madrone burl that I will probably flatten that way.
I also have a good machinery dealer just 10 miles away. I have purchased my larger equipment from him, and he has always given me competitive pricing. AFter an absolute nightmare dealing with Laguna, I have come to appreciate his presence.
As for the dovetails, I admit I may be a bit of a romantic...
Good luck.
I think General is the Cadillac of brands still affordable by the average consumer.
I'd guess you'd have to move into a European brand as the next leg up in quality.
If I was gearing back up to do millwork and put some employees to work I wouldn't hesitate to populate the shop floor with General stuff. I'd think twice about the PM and Delta which are essentially Asian products marketed in the west. That's not always a bad thing, but I think that General is objectively a better made product.
I've owned all three brands in the past, but nothing of significance from Delta and PM since production was largely moved offshore.
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