Replies

1. 
   Ole | Oct 26, 2003 10:07pm | #1

   The Handplane Book - Garrett Hack, Tauton Press. It covers the history of planes, but also gives you tips for tuning and using planes. A very nice and beautiful book.

   Planecraft, hand planing by modern methods - C.W. Hampton & E. Clifford, Woodcraft. Covers different types of planes, when and how to use them. All based on Record planes, but you will find similar models by other manufactures. Available at Lie-Nielsen for 9,95 $

   Ole

   .... I Love the smell of sawdust in the morning....

2. 
   RANGERP75R | Oct 26, 2003 11:35pm | #2

   Ryan

      The book Ole metioned is good. There is another one that has been metnioned by BossCrunk from the forum that goes more into detail on technique. I think it is out of print, but it was mentioned that it can still be had from a source. I want it, but every time I get ready to find it, I have forgotten he author, name and source. I think by Sam Allen. Hopefully Boss will read this and respond as I would like to find it also.

     I am certainly have no expertise with hand-planes, but I have recently gotten highly interested. There are others here that are extremely talented with them and hopefully will share their advice more wisely than I.

     As a begginer with hand planes period, I personally would start with a low-angle block plane. I just finished a work-bench and it played a major role with end-grain especially. I am pretty proficeint with that particular plane as I've used it for 31 years. It is the easiest to use and will give you the basics of how and what makes them work properly. The bench planes are a bit trickier and without the knowledge, you can get frustrated quickly. They are simple, but can be a bit fussy to adjust if you don't understand the basics.

     For example, the block planes have the angle of the iron (blade) turned up. If you grab a bench plane, take out the blade without noticing and re-insert it you would naturally turn that angle up as with a block. It won't preform and you get frustrated. On a bench plane the angle goes toward the rear or down. It doesn't look right, but it is. This is a basic. Blocks and low-angle planes go angle up, bench and jointers (#1-#8) go down.

   Good luck with your plans...

   sarge..jt

1. 
   jackiechan | Oct 27, 2003 06:29am | #5

   Sarge,

   I believe this is what you're looking for...  Plane Basics by Sam Allen.View Image

   Cheers!Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Oct 27, 2003 07:32am | #6

   Dan

      Thanks a lot. Boss has metioned it several times. I think he said it was out of print, but that Taunton still had copies for sale.

   Have a good evening, Dan...

   sarge..jt

3. 
   BG | Oct 26, 2003 11:54pm | #3

   Norm,

   It good to start with research first....and the books mentioned are quite good.  You might want to see if they are available in your local library.  In the long term you may want to own a couple for reference...read them for free first if you can...

   also,  this is a great read..

   http://www.amgron.clara.net/planingpoints/firststeps/firststepsindex.htm

   
   

   ---

   Edited 10/26/2003 4:56:18 PM ET by BG

4. 
   Alan | Oct 27, 2003 01:17am | #4

   Ryan,

   You've received excellent advice:  study up first, then you will be able to answer your "which plane" question.  It has to be this way.  In the olden days, before power tools, there was a logical progression to follow in acquiring planes.  But nowadays, when you will probably use some combination of power tools and hand tools, the old advice no longer holds.  (There are too few of us purists around these days.)

   So read, talk to others, and otherwise become an informed consumer before you buy anything.

   ALERT:  acquiring and using hand planes is highly addictive.  You will not be able to stop at one, or two, or three...  You have been warned.

   Alan

5. 
   JeffKurtz | Oct 27, 2003 01:51pm | #7

   "I have never owned/used a plane..."

   Never? You aren't Norm Abram, are you?

   Sorry, but I couldn't resist.  Don't think I've ever disagreed with Sarge before, but I have to on this one.  For a first plane and bearing in mind what your purpose is, I'd have to recommend a jack plane.  It will do the work of a smoother, a jointer, and can shoot the ends of boards as well.

   That being said, the books recommended are good.  Get one, or both, ASAP.  Then, get a nice used #5 Stanley.  (The new Stanleys aren't very good.  You can buy a better new plane, but the old Stanley will teach you more.)  Learn how to sharpen the iron, tune the plane, and start practicing.  Can't stress this last point enough.  A plane, like all tools, requires a bit of learning and a lot of practice.  Get a few poplar or clear pine boards and have at it.  (Be forewarned, your chest and triceps will be sore the next day!)  By the time you start to plane your bench top, you'll be doing it like an old pro.

   Jeff

   BTW You should be able to find a nice used one for $40 or less.  (I paid $15 for mine.)  Here's one that's on EBay right now.  Not sure if there are others for less or in better shape; this was just the first nice one I found.  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3248790105&category=13874

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Oct 27, 2003 06:46pm | #8

   Jeff

        I told you I have no expertee with these boys. ha..ha.. What you say makes sense and I have to agree. The first one he will porbably need is the jack. My thinking was simply based on he has never used one. A block is cheap and easy to use. I just figured if he gets nice, fine shavings with a block the addition has gained a foundation. He won't get frustrated so easily when he steps up to the fussier planes. In other words, more chance of devoting the patience and gaining the knowledge without parking them and resorting back to the electrical outlet.

       I'm a pure novice with these things at this point, but I'm not sure there is a clear-cut answer to which is the best plane to have first. Perhaps the closest to truth would be the correct one you needed when a hand plane was required. What I have found is, un-like power tools you just don't open the box; read instructions and away you go. What I think we could agree on is to read all and ask questions, get something cheap (new or used) and have a go. Then if it doesn't fill your expectations, you are not in danger of having to take out a second mortgage to pay for that new LN you have parked on the shelf gathering dust. ha..ha..

      Whatever the answer, it's a fun ride... ha..ha..

   sarge..jt

   Edited 10/27/2003 11:52:41 AM ET by SARGE

6. 
   Crunk | Oct 27, 2003 07:03pm | #9

   Your first plane should be a #7 or longer.  The Hack book is not a good place to start - it has some how-to, but too much history and too much of a coffee table book feel to be of good use.  Get the Hack book after a while.

   Plane Basics by Sam Allen is the book that will take you from Point A to Point B with the least amount of fluff in between.

   This is not a Taunton Press book (should have been).  It can be ordered from Amazon.

   Get it, get it, get it!!!

   
   

   ---

   Edited 10/27/2003 12:05:07 PM ET by BossCrunk

1. 
   woodaddic1 | Oct 27, 2003 07:18pm | #10

   Thanks to all for the help and keep it coming if there is more to be said.  I will start out by getting the book by Sam Allen.  That sounds like the ticket at this point.  Also, I've heard suggestions for both a #5 and #7, if I want to focus on just my workbench project which will best serve this purpose?

   Thanks,

   Ryan

1. 
   Crunk | Oct 27, 2003 08:21pm | #11

   Norm, flattening a workbench top will be easier with as long a plane as you can muster for the chore.  It's a little harder to push, but the lenghth will bridge uneven sections better than a shorter plane the result of which should be a flatter surface faster.  A 5 has its place, but IF YOU ONLY HAD ONE PLANE, I'd make it a 7.

1. 
   woodaddic1 | Oct 27, 2003 08:52pm | #12

   I was looking on ebay for used #7's.  Do they make a flat soled or are most corrugated(?)?

   Is there anyone who has multiples of the same plane and would be interested in parting with them?

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Oct 27, 2003 09:20pm | #13

   norm

      The book Boss refers to is excellent. I went on-line with my local libarary this morning and they had 1 copy. I'm looking at it now. You might try your library as BG mentioned.

   sarge..jt

2. 
   Crunk | Oct 27, 2003 09:23pm | #15

   Helluva book isn't it?  Sam gets right to it with no prettied up bullshi*. 

3. 
   RANGERP75R | Oct 27, 2003 09:44pm | #16

   Boss

      Yes it is... I'm surprised it went out of print. I think there is a lot of new interest that has been generated recently with the hand planes as in my case. I been using them for years and did not have a clue with the bench planes up to jointer. It pushed me to go power and sanding. As you know, 30 years ago information we can get quickly now was difficult to come by.

   Have a good day...

   sarge..jt

4. 
   Crunk | Oct 27, 2003 11:05pm | #17

   Very true. 

5. 
   Crunk | Oct 27, 2003 09:22pm | #14

   They're made both ways.  Hell, I'd just buy a new Stanley #7 from the Garrett Wade catalog and be done with it.  Don't make this harder than it has to be.  Ebay is fine for down the road, in the meantime just buy a few planes new.  You can easily return them.  They're very serviceable.  The antique stuff can be problematic especially if you buy from somebody who knows nothing about planes.  They're are a lot of people who make a living buying stuff at estate sales and selling it on Ebay.  They don't know squat about planes.

2. 
   woodaddic1 | Nov 04, 2003 10:07pm | #20

   I have searched high and low for Sam Allen's plane basics and can't get ahold of it.  I know it comes highly recommended, but what would your second recommendation be for a good plane book.  I'm not as interested in the history of planes, just in the mechanics, uses and upkeep.

   Thanks,

   Ryan

1. 
   Crunk | Nov 05, 2003 04:47am | #21

   Let's figure out a way to email each other.  I love the book so much, I'll photocopy the damned thing and send it to you.  Copyright infringement?  Probably.  I'll take my chances.

   Do users still have Taunton email addresses?

1. 
   woodaddic1 | Nov 07, 2003 12:12am | #27

   Here's where things stand:

   I purchased my first 2 planes:

   -  Satnley #5C

   -  Stanley #7C

   Both were purchased without much research because I got caught up in my first ebay experience.  The research I have done since has shown that the #5C was made at a time when the planes coming from Stanley were pretty good.  Both planes seem to be in excellent condition.  That being said, I still want to acquire some good books on planes.  I think I found a way to email you Boss Crunk, I sent it already so let me know if you received anything.  Your opinion of the Sam Allen book is shown by the dedication you have to get a copy to me.  This is appreciated.

   Thanks

   Ryan

7. 
   Koldsteel | Oct 28, 2003 05:59pm | #18

   Im a newbie as well, Norm. I have just completed a workbench myself. Through a great deal of research I had also come to the conclusion that a Stanley #7 was the best plane for me to get the job done. Reading all the responses here has even more so reinforced what I have learned already. I am awaiting a Stanley-Bailey #7 from California today that I bought on Ebay. You have to be paitient on Ebay. Some guys are collectors looking for a rare or different item. Some have no idea what they are buying. A new Stanley #7 can be bought for as low as 89.95 from Highland Hardware. But I recommened, as someone has already mentioned, to try and find an older one. The casting are quite a bit beefier. And they already have wooden handles not the plastic ones. You will find the one you want with a little time on Ebay; new planes are added daily. A book I read by Andy Rae, Choosing and Using Hand Tools, has a sectin on buying old tools. He says to make sure the sole of the plane is unpitted and the mouth is unchipped or cracked. Most of the people selling these planes know this and include a pic of the sole. Good luck. And sorry so long winded.

1. 
   woodaddic1 | Oct 28, 2003 06:15pm | #19

   Big Daddy

   Thanks for the advice.  Maybe I'll play the waiting game on ebay, since the workbench isn't on the top of my to-do list.

   Ryan

1. 
   BobSmalser | Nov 05, 2003 06:16am | #22

   I'm of a different opinion...with all the old tool sites on the net getting coaching in restoring and sharpening old Stanley planes is easy...and tuning a plane will teach you a lot about them.

   I like the "C"-series corrugated...not because the grooved sole means much but they were made in the years of rosewood handles, tall knobs on bases cast for them and excellent quality.  Generally "Type 11 or 12" are good user planes once you  study up on ID'ing them.

   http://www.hyperkitten.com/tools/stanley_bench_plane/

   I agree about a #7 being a good plane to begin with...where are you...if you were close, I could loan you a few various types after we go thru sharpening.

   Ebay has good prices on 3's, 4's, 5's. 7's and 8's....but you gotta know more than the antique dealer....not so hard to listen to them....but study up, there are some liars out there.  Compare pics with the collector examples and look for a lot of blade left and no wear or chips at the mouth.  No pic of the mouth=no purchase.  You''ll get real tired real quick of liars telling you, "I really don't know anything about planes" as an excuse to dodge the hard questions.  But it's worth it to pick up a good, fully-serviceable prewar plane for 25-50 bucks.

   Edited 11/4/2003 10:19:47 PM ET by Bob

   Edited 11/4/2003 10:31:53 PM ET by Bob

1. 
   OLDWING | Nov 06, 2003 05:55am | #23

   I agree completely - get an oldie but goodie.  And don't for God's sake get a new Stanley.  If it's necessary to get a new plane, go to Lee Valley or Lie-Nielsen.  A new Stanley isn't much more than a kit and doesn't begin to match what Stanley themselves made 60 years ago.

   Bruce, a galoot.

1. 
   EdHarrison | Nov 06, 2003 06:53am | #24

   I second what you said and hope the original poster is still listening.

   I've got a new Stanley No. 7 and a Clifton No. 7 that were bought at about the same time. The new Stanley has been used about twice but the Clifton has been used a lot, including planing a workbench top flat.

   Problems with the new Stanley (short list):

   1) Sole not flat

   2) Tool steel of iron inferior and will not hold edge

   3) Casting rough where iron mates to frog

   4) "two turns" or more of slip in depth adjustment

   5) Plastic handles feel clunky and can't be filed to hand

   6) Mouth too large and can't be adjusted to fine without filing forward edge smooth.

   7) Cap iron of mine didn't fit well and required filing around the "kidney bean" hole.

   Moral of the story: buy a good plane. Buy an old one off ebay and fit with Hock iron, or buy Clifton or L-N.

   Ed

2. 
   Ole | Nov 06, 2003 10:51am | #25

   YEP ! Go with a Clifton, LN or Veritas !!

   Buying a new Stanley would be a waste of money !! You can try tuning a new Stanley, but it will never perform quite like a real quality plane and with the extra money spent (wooden handles, HOCk blade, etc.) you might as well go for a good plane right away.

   I got some Clifton planes and they perform really well.

   Check this link for some details on Clifton planes: http://www.fine-tools.com/G303774.htm

   In the USA you find them at http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/clifton.htm

   Ole.... I Love the smell of sawdust in the morning....

3. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 06, 2003 06:11pm | #26

   ORH

       I get to see them often at Highland Hardware. Clifton has basically just duplicated the old "bed-rock" design. LN has duplicated it and in some cases made a few improvements in a few areas, it appears to me. And of course there is a price difference.

      The Clifton's are nice.......

   Regards...

   sarge..jt

8. 
   BobSmalser | Nov 07, 2003 04:45am | #28

   I'm not trying to be critical of well-made planes or the folks who use them...I love fine tools and the folks who love them, too.....but Grandpa did some excellent woodworking with some pretty crude beech and birch planes...whose soles weren't dead flat and adjustments were made with a hammer instead of a micrometer.....

   .....you can too.

   I only bought a few older Stanley because I got real tired of inlaying the mouths of the family's old planes as they wore down.  I woodworked with those old planes for 4 decades before I ever bought an older Stanley....let alone anything that cost more than 50 bucks.

   Budget yourself and buy tools for value to you, not trends or some catalog pitch.  With discipline, you can make your hobby pay for itself in value, cash or both.  As you get better, make two of each project for economy of scale and try to sell one...make pretty hand tools like bowsaws and trammels out of your scraps....throw one on the new-tool table at an urban antique tool auction sometime, and you may find your hobby can pay more than pennies an hour.  Then take that value or cash and upgrade your tools if you've a mind to....but by the time you get that far you just may be satisfied with some of what you have.  It was you, grasshopper, not the tool.

   Family planes still in use:

   http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2594266/25023390.jpg

   
   

   ---

   Edited 11/6/2003 8:49:33 PM ET by Bob

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 07, 2003 06:53am | #29

   Bob

      Check your computer settings. Your post ran out of bounds.

   Regards...

   sarge..jt

2. 
   BG | Nov 07, 2003 04:37pm | #30

   Bob,

   You've got some nice wisdom there...make two sell one...

   Can I please buy the peg board ...its such a pain to make...lol