Replies

1. 
   derekcohen | Oct 08, 2010 06:10am | #1

   Only two?!

   Where's the fun in that?!

   OK ...... Router plane for the cheeks and shoulder plane for the shoulders.

   Lots of choices, however ...http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AHandcutMorticeandTenonPrimer-BlindMortice.html

   Regards from Perth

   Dere

2. 
   RalphBarker | Oct 08, 2010 09:49am | #2

   As Derek said, there are many choices. From my perspective, I think there are two primary conwsiderations: the typical size of tenons that you work with, and the size of tool you are most comfortable working with. If you have small hands, a rabbet block plane may feel more comfortable than a larger plane, for example. A "large" router plane is a good choice for the cheeks, but is subject to wobble, since only half the base is supported. Thus, it depends on the user's ability to control it well. (Not to mention that sharpening the right-angle blades are a bit different.)

3. 
   roc | Oct 09, 2010 12:53am | #3

   Lots of ways to do it. Depends on what looks good to you.

   I really like my large Veritas router plane.  With a spacer to stabilize it that is an excellent way to go.

   A shoulder plane is a must for woodworking so for sure get one of those for the shoulders.  I have Lie-Nielsen which work fine the size depends on the size of your work; I have three sizes ( two LNs and another one ).  If I were buying now I would look at the Veritas.  I will probably get the medium one in the future.

   Another thing to keep in mind if you want to be "getter done" . . . is, for tenon cheeks, Frank Klausz just used a good quality wood file.  The finish isn't important on the cheeks of the tennon and the rasp/file can be quick if you are close to a fit.

   Here is a good file:

   http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/nicholson50patternmakersrasp.aspx

   Trust me the cheepies are junk it has to do with the pattern of the teeth.

   Just another perspective.  You will need all these anyway so doesn't really matter which you get and use now for the cheeks; a file or a plane.  You could even use the shoulder plane on the cheeks; I did for a while.  Does the job.  Open up the throat for thicker shavings.

   I have this plane for cheeks but it is tricky to sharpen and to use:

   http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?grp=1274

   I also have this guy for cheeks:

   http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=60_5R

   Works well

   But a file works on the cheeks to (not a metal workers file even a coarse one. Forget that. Does not cut deep/fast enough just rounds over the face ).

4. 
   ArgosyBob | Dec 29, 2010 02:55pm | #4

   Maybe I'm old fashioned, but an old Stanley 78 seems to work well for both - as long as it's sharp...

5. 
   9619 | Dec 29, 2010 07:25pm | #5

   Hi jfsksa,

   Over the past years,  the most asked question on Knots has been about how to sharpen.     I believe the second most asked question has been about hand planes for tenons.        I used to answer all of them.   Derek Cohen answers almost all of them.  And there used to be lots of others who jumped in.    Now there is almost no one left here.   Most have gone over to The Burl.  My guess is that if you did that,  you would have had a dozen answers in a half a day.   It is quite a jumping place.

   There is something else you can do.  Go to your favorite search engine.  Mine is Google.  I typed in "planes for tenons"  and got 689,000 responses in about a half a second.    I recommend you do that.   That way you can see the wide variety of opinions on the subject.  It is a religious thing.    

   My favorite answer is the one that Frank Klausz gives,  "If you cut your tenons correctly, you don' need to use a hand plane."   To my way of thinking,  he is absolutely right.   So my suggestion would be to practice, practice, practice, cutting to a line so that your tenons can be right on, as you saw them.     With practice,  ANYONE can learn to do that.    

   However, most folks who used to be kn Knots,  and who frequented the Hand Tools section,  are what I call "Tool Afficianados".   They love to buy and collect tools.    Derek has hundreds.       So some of them look for ways to use them. Some just admire them.    

   It is hard to know who to believe here on Knots, or on any forum.   You get opinions.   Some of them are HIGHY BIASED.  Some have long standing habits that they don't want to break.        So if you get fifteen different answers,  which are you going to take??    Interesting question.!!!!!!!!!!

   I have tried lots of ways.  If you are skilled with the use of a chisel, you can use chisels for both shoulders and cheeks.   If you are skilled in the use of a rabbet plane,  those will let you get into corners.   Of course, both of those approaches have their obvious problems.  How do you keep things square?   How do you know how much to remove?

   So you can go to the use of a router plane, which has been suggested to you.  That works  IF AND ONLY IF  your wood is perfectly milled,  then that can work,  especially after you get skilled in the use of the router plane.      

   I believe,  differently than others, that it is not the tool that you use, but the skill with which you use it.   You can use almost anything to do tenons,  if you have the skill.    All alternatives are fraught with problems, and you will learn what they are when you start.    With sufficient practice, you will get it right,  if you are clever.  

   If you are not so clever, it is good to have a skilled person there with you, giving you feedback.  So if you life near a woodworking guild, I suggest you join.   Access to skilled people is the easiest way to learn.    TO ME,  the best way to learn is by yourself.  But it takes longer, and not everyone can do it.   The Internet has all of the information you need to be as good a woodworker as the Goddards or the Townsends.   

   If I were you,  I would go and do a bunch of reading, and realize that people use all sores of ways to do tenons,.   They settle on what works for them.      My suggestion is to listed to one of the greatest, most skilled woodworkers in the world, and one who has made a god living at it for decades  -- Frank Klausz,   and learn how to cut tenons correctly with a saw, so you don't have to use planes.   BUT THIS IS NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART.   What I am recommending is only for those woodworkers who aspire to be the best.

   My suggestion is to always FOCUS ON SKILLS,  not on tools.

   My suggestion is not to ask such questions on Knots or to try to get answers on Knots -   It is impossible to know who to believe.  I suggest you go do some reading of books from excellent professional woodworkers.    If you are going to ask anyone a question such as the one you did,  you are much better off, IMHO, asking a professional, who can be trusted not to be a "tool afficianado" and who has decades of proven experience in actually making furniture.     

   Interestingly enough, you should not listen to me, since you don't know much about me.   One hint that I am not just giving you some personal opinions is that I suggested you take the advice of Frank Klausz.

   HAVE FUN.   Practice, practice, practice.

   Mel

1. 
   jg0258 | Dec 29, 2010 10:16pm | #6

   1 Derek might have hundreds of planes, but he uses them and uses them in an excellent manner as evidenced by his web site. You talk a lot but do not seem to make anything, or at least anything worth admiring. 

   2 it is hard to acquire skills with crappy tools, the purpose of a good tool is to "disappear" in your hand so that you can concentrate on developing a skill. It is hard to acquire a skill when you are fighting the tool every step of the way. 

   3 Your attempts to try an poach members from this forum to the burl is becoming tiresome, you do not need 12 responses when 2 or 3 from well experienced people are all that is needed and it is usually less confusing to the OP. Since you dislike this forum so much why don't you leave once and for all? 

   4 Your statement about using the router plane is dumb, why would you make a tenon on a piece of wood that has not been "perfectly" milled. Seems to me you have little experience and only recount what you have read. Using a router plane is great specially when your tenon is not straight but slanted a bit. 

6. 
   jg0258 | Dec 29, 2010 10:27pm | #7

   As with everything it depends, Derek's suggestion is great if you have really bad tenons. For slight corrections, such as a tenon that is slightly too wide for the mortise I use a cheek float like this

    http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?cat=542

   For the shoulder I use a Veritas shoulder plane, since the shoulders are end grain I put a small 20º bevel on my blade, works like a charm. A couple of passes should be all you need to fix an uneven shoulder. 

   Pay no attention to the "lecture" from the resident expert, this is not rocket science. 

7. 
   jg0258 | Dec 30, 2010 06:21pm | #8

   LOL....Not at all, I just call them as I see them. On the other hand, I rather be a sad, angry person than a pedantic ass who thinks knows everything when in fact he knows little and hides behind 2 page long responses so people won't notice. 

8. 
   noviceneil | Dec 30, 2010 09:33pm | #9

   planes for tenons

   jf,

   Derek gives excellent advice.  I have both experience and instruction by an expert in this area. I was taught by Chris Gochnour to use a large router plane to pare down the tenon cheeks and to adjust the shoulders with a shoulder plane. This method has worked really well for me. Of course Mel is right about the fact that there are many ways in woodworking to reach the same goal, so that a skewed block plane, a chisel, a rasp, etc will achieve the same results in experienced hands. Chris also stressed the importance of cutting to the line so the tenons were a close fit before they needed tweaking. Now, if you are a professional furniture maker or a hobbyist with a lot of experience, you can probably cut your tenons so well that you don't need to use anything else to make them fit.....I haven't reached that point partly b/c I don't do it that often.

   I don't care which tools people use. If an old restored tool works, GREAT.  I have a few Stanley planes I've restored and they work fine.  There are lots of people on Knots who make excellent, outstanding works with old tools.  They obviously don't need an upgrade b/c they've learned how to make those tools work for them.  However, if you're a beginning woodworker, good tools help immensely. Obviously, there is the question of cost. Some consider Lie Nielsen or Veritas to be out of their price range, others have no problem with the price of excellence. Mel owns several LN planes> Mel also worked for NASA, a program that (one would hope)t did not work with second rate tools.

   I would like to express my disappointment in Mel over his obvious eager attempts to end participation in Knots...Knots has served woodworkers well for many years. There have been some rough patches in the past year and some of the participants have left in exasperation. To me, the right thing to do is to try to resurrect this site, not to bury it.

   One last barb, Sam Maloof bought an 800$ shoulder plane from Bridge City Toolworks, not because he needed, not because he thought it would improve his woodworking, but simply because it was a beautiful tool that worked really well and he could afford it.

   Neil, a lover of woodworking and fine tools