I have never owened a new hand plane, therefore I do not really know how they should be set up and with which angle for which plane. so my question is if I were to buy one hand plane to start with which one should be first and why? Eventually I will buy another as money permits. I will pobably purchace from lee valley. (veritas)
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What type of work do you intend to do? A common bench plane with around a 9 inch sole, and a block plane are usually the first planes to purchase, but after that most planes are designed for doing specific jobs and you would choose them for the work you have in mind.
Equally as important as the planes is having a sharpening system and a bench that will hold the work while you plane.
John W.
I am pretty new to wwing, but I eventually plan to build all types of furniture right now I have a beat up stanley #3,#110, #12 and a spoke shave none of which work to good.
which plane to recommend first depends largly on what you're building, how you're building it and what budget you can afford... I've learned the hard way that the only way to buy a dependable tool is to do your research and put some serious cash behind it... anything short of that leaves the door open for disappointment and frustration...
Generally speaking, the most often used plane size is the jack plane group. This group has benefitted lately through some of the better manufacturers expaanding their range to include bevel up and bevel down models... Each type have their merrits... Model #'s to have a look at would be #'s 5 and 5 1/2, #'s 62 and 62 1/2...
Have a look at what Clifton, Lee Valley and Lie Nielsen have to offer. All three offer excellent models to choose from and use good quality steel in their blades...
Before you commit to a purchase you'd be well advised to read up on the subject too... there's a wee bit more to using a hand plane than simply stroking it over a board... You'll need to have a good strong (and preferably heavy) bench, a means with which to hold the board to the bench, means to sharpen and hone your blades etc...
Additionally, good long straight edges are a must for checking a boards flatness along its length; winding sticks are essential for checking that your board is free from twist across its width. There's a range of good books available at Taunton's home page... check em out before you buy your tools and the books will pay for themselves through avoiding expencive mistakes...
Last point... there's quite a few here with a wealth of experience in matters handraulic... don't be shy to tap into that through asking questions. That said... don't be surprized at the broad range of answers you get back....
Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
OK, I am going to be a bit different here than most. A Lee Valley plane is an excellent one, almost, or equal to a Lie NIelsen, for less money. However, depending on your experience with tools and metal work, you can probalby get a good deal on a Stanley Bedrock smoother, although I happen to think a #5 jack is a better first choice. Howver, I wouldn't go that route either.
Why different? I suggest a Steve Knight wood plane, probably a good razee jack plane, but you should email him and speak to him about it. Why? Because a plane is no good without sharpeing skills, so let's assume you have those. Second, any plane needs some prep, whether a new Lie Nielsen or an old Stanley/Bailey pattern. The Knight planes need almost no prep, and the blades are also almost perfect. You can use them right out of the box, and those thick irons are easier for someone with limited experience to work on.
You will need a plane hammer. Mine happens to made of some scrap padauk and walnut (as the small pieces of those were the right size). Lee Valley does sell a plane hammer (as I said though, a plane hammer need not be fancy). In truth, with minimal practice, I find it easier to adjust a wood plane than my metal ones with either Norris or Bailey adjusters (although the Norris ones are really great).
A razee plane is a wood plane with a lowered back and a handle, makiing it easier to use.
Welcome to the craft. You will probably get a zillion different answers .
thank you all for the info. As for the bench I just picked up an old pizza shop countertop it is made from 3" thick maple and is roughly 3x7' long. I have to take it apart and plane down the boards back to flat and build some legs for it, but it cost me nothing so i really don't mind. So I will some time soon have a nice sturdy bench to work on. I am on a very limited budget so can only buy one plane at a time so that's why I need to know which one to buy first, because it might be a year before i can shell out money to buy another one. again all your replies are appreciated.
also i did purchase the mk2 sharping guide from lee valley
Edited 12/16/2005 11:29 pm ET by rbarlow
My recommendation for a GREAT first plane is one that does at least one or two things as good or better than any other, and a lot of things pretty well.
That in mind, go with the L-V low angle jointer. You will never need another jointer, and though big, it will do everything a low ange block plane will. Put a higher angle blade in it, and it will smooth or scrape about as well as any other.
And since your first job is to flatten that pizza table you got, the jointer will be perfect.
Chris
If you just got that plank of wood handed to you, you have talents beyond most of us already. That will be some gorgeous bench.
You might check around and see if you can get some one to thickness sand that for you rather than planing it. You might hve grain going in a multitude of directions. Learning to hand plane on something of that size and complexity might be like trying to learn a foreign language by immersion. It's probably not as difficult as parachuting into Afghanistan and asking for directions to get back home, but it will be something you will remember for a long time. $20-100 spent at a Cabinet shop might save you weeks of frustration, and gain you introduction to some knowledgeable people. I promise you faithfully, that when you walk in the door with your plank, they will be very favorably impressed with your old bad self.
I think I might have typed wrong or something it is not one solid plank, it is basically 2X3's that are about 7' long and they are bolted together using allthread so I think I will just disassemble the table and run the boards through the table saw making them about 21/2 in. the bottom of the table is flat just top from years of use needs to be flattened. I originally was going to try to plane them down but once I discovered I could just take it apart I figured that would be a lot easier.
Edited 12/18/2005 9:42 pm ET by rbarlow
I had gotten the impression it was a glued up plank. It is still an awful nice thing to come by for free. Especially when it comes with its own built in story to go with it.
Yes it was a great find. I always mention to just about everyone what I am into so when they run into things like that they think to call me. There are two more out in the alley behind the resturant waiting to be picked up, I was told they have been out there for over a year so I still have to go check them out.
You could get some good money for those on Ebay. You could drop me off one at the house next time your in SC.
they are pretty heavy I think they would be to much money to ship. probably just cut them up for other projects. I always look through the for sale ads in the paper and you will usually see some type of resturant or deli selling off their equipment and there is a good chance that they have one.
Look at Lee Valley's low angle smoother. It is easy to set up, and you can get both a high angle and a low angle blade. Those will handle everything from endgrain, to wild facegrain. No frog to figure out, and no chattermarks in the wildest wood when using the high angle blade.
I am a big fan of everything from Lee Valley.
is this smoother a 41/2? that is the one I am thinking of going with
That 4 1/2smoother is great too, but I was talking about their low angle smoother. I don't think it has a number. If I could only have one, it would break my heart, but that one gives you lots of options for themoney.
what is the difference between the low angle and the 41/2? is it just size or the ability to do different things?
Go to the Veritas web site, they will explain it better than I can.
The low angle is good for end grain. The higher angle is better for face grain. But, you can put a blade ground to an pitch in the low angle plane that duplicates the pitch of the high angle plane.
You get two planes for the price of one, and an extra blade. But also, because of the low angle, you don't get any of the chattering that you will on occasion get with the higher angle plane.
ok I see now. thank's so much for your time to explain to this newbie. much appreciated.
We're all newbies.
You get two planes for the price of one, and an extra blade. But also, because of the low angle, you don't get any of the chattering that you will on occasion get with the higher angle plane.
I hate to say this, but a low angle plane isn't automatically immune to blade chatter. Similarly, blade thickness has more to do with chatter than whether the bevel is face up or face down... Both bevel up and bevel down are prone to chatter when their blades need honing and the cut is a touch too ambitious...Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
I hate to say this, if you have to stretch your point that far to have something to say, it probably wasn't worth your effort.
If you try the low angle plane, with the high angle grind, you will find it pretty immune to any chattering, if not immune to your philosophizing.
I've been using a L-N #62 for almost 3 years now with both high and low angled blades... I stand by what I've seen while using it...Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
"I've been using a L-N #62 for almost 3 years now with both high and low angled blades... I stand by what I've seen while using it..."Next one on my list.
a fine choice at that.... don't get me wrong, my comments weren't trying to imply that the #62 is a bad plane... if anything, my experience with it demonstrates that it's pretty remarkable when allowed to perform to its strengths... But like any other plane, if you push it too hard it can and will chatter, a sure fire sign that you're doing something wrong...
The learning curve got a whole lot flatter when I bought this plane... excellent learning tool...Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
My mentor recommended a 4 1/2 Smoother to me as a first plane. Over all he gave us this list.
Smoother (3, 4, 4 1/2)
Low Angle Block Plane
Jointer Plane
Shoulder Plane
This is essentially the same list the Rob Cosman recommends.
Read the Feb 2006 issue of Popular Woodworking. Fantastic article by Christoher Schwartz titled Coarse, Medium, Fine about which planes to use in which order.
Alan - planesaw
When we took the woodworking course at the Community college a few years back, the instructor started us out with a #7 Stanley. We spent more time learning how to sharpen than using the tool in the beginning, but it really paid off in the long run. Sharpening and setting up the plane is a key aspect of its use. We soon went to a #5, then #4, #3, and then a block plane. Starting with a #5 is probably the way to go. Get a used plane, learn about it by sharpening and using it, then see how you feel. Give yourself a chance to develop an appreciation for planing and planes.
Good Luck!
Gottlieb
If by "first hand plane" you mean something to supplement your existing power tools, and do things the power tools can't, then the answer is a block plane; a low-angle one would be the most versatile. Nothing better to, say, trim that tenon for a perfect fit. Get a scraper, too, since it's cheap and nothing beats it for putting on a fine surface.
All the other answers here, I think, are from the point of view that you don't have any power tools, and/or are loking at replacing some of the functions of your planer and jointer with hand tools. If that's you goal then look at the bench / jack place that have been suggested.
what kind of scraper do you suggest a card or some other type?
what kind of scraper do you suggest a card or some other type?
Yea for starters. The Bahco (Sandvik) or Lie-Nielsen rectangular cards; buy a copy of "Tage Frid Teaches Woodworking" if you don't already have it. It shows how to sharpen and use it.
"If by "first hand plane" you mean something to supplement your existing power tools, and do things the power tools can't, then the answer is a block plane; a low-angle one would be the most versatile. Nothing better to, say, trim that tenon for a perfect fit. Get a scraper, too, since it's cheap and nothing beats it for putting on a fine surface.All the other answers here, I think, are from the point of view that you don't have any power tools, and/or are loking at replacing some of the functions of your planer and jointer with hand tools. If that's you goal then look at the bench / jack place that have been suggested. "Barry that's a very good point. I have the Lie Nielsen low angle adjustable mouth block plane. It was the first plane i bought and it still gets about 75% of the work. You can do so much with it. I've used it for most everything including jointing, smooting, cleaning up saw marks, cleaning up end grain etc, and prior to buying the lie neilsen 4 1/2 smoother, I even used it to scrub nasty twisted boards. Also, the adjustable mouth really enhances its usefulness. Very handy when working with difficult boards. It really is a very usefull little tool. In fact the only thing i use my jointer for anymore is flattening boards. I rip stock square and then take a few passes with that block plane to clean up the edge. -dp
Hey, rbarlow.
I'm going to go pretty much with what Daryl said, with some modification. My first plane (about 35 years ago) was an old, beat-up wooden jack plane (under $20) that I converted to a scrub plane and still use to this day -- mainly because it's as good at what it does as any of my "fancier" (expensive) planes. Also, I think learning to sharpen it, set it and use it properly tought me a lot about tools and woodworking and woodworking history -- a history that I am reconnected with every time I pick it up. (I also look for every opportunity I can find to use a Steve Knight custom job I had made up to make shallow hollows and an old wooden beading plane originally used for edging clapboard. For me, there is something about a wooden plane that just makes it WAY more fun to use. YMMV) That said, the plane I use most is a metal block plane. I have an old Stanley that I use about as much as my L-N. (I use a metal block plane instead of a wooden one because I find that I adjust the blade and throat a lot in use, and it's easier/faster to do on a metal one than it is on a wooden one.) My specific advice would be to start with a used, but servicable, jack plane and block plane -- wooden if you can find 'em, metal if you can't. You should be able to get both for under $50 and some time spent searching garage sales and/or flea markets and then tuning them up.
However, the bottom line is that, as a beginner, you'll do better to find low-cost (NOT "cheap") used tools and spend the money you save on lots and lots of wood to practice on by making as many different projects as you can instead of new, top-of-the-line tools. Once you do a bunch of work, you will discover where certain tools limit your own abilities and then you can upgrade. Remember, some of the most amazing furniture ever made was made with tools that most woodwokers of today wouldn't consider using regularly, if at all. But, no matter what you decide, have fun and bury yourself in sawdust and shavings!
Mike Hennessy
thank you for your reply is a block plane just a block plane or are there certain #'s I should look for? bevel up or down?
Q. You haven't ever had a "New" plane, have you ever had an "Old" plane?
If this your first plane I wouldn't waste my money on a new one. I'd pick up some old ones. You can get a whole set of used planes for the price of a new one. You will also learn a lot more about hand planes by refinishing old ones. When you understand more about planes you can buy a new one.
JMHO
yes I do have a couple of old planes that I saved from being thrown away. I refurbished them to the best of MY ability. There was a lot of trial and error (more error) on my part. I did not know which planes were bevel up or which ones were supposed to be bevel down. I bought a sharpening jig veritas MKII which sets the angle for you, but this does no good when you don't know what the angle should be. So I figured if I bought a new plane I could study it, use it, and see how one should feel. I think that would help me refurbish the ones I already own and ones I will own in the future. thank you for the reply rb
I agree with other posters that a #5 is a good starter, and would look in antique stores for one. The Stanley #5 was the first expensive tool for me in 1959. I was just starting medical practice and the plane cost as much as four of my office calls. I still enjoy that plane, even though I have a small collection of planes.
Tom
Look at the video for the VP-60. We might have a definitive answer here.
Bridge City Tool Works, a division of Fine Tools, LLC
Now, do I want to pawn 40-50 planes I have accumulated over the years to buy this one?
Xuc doh mei.
Having asked the same question a year ago, I didn't read through all the responses. My advise would to just buy one, a jack or smoother would be useful right away. It won't be long before you've purchased several more to make a more useful set.
I now have five Veritas planes and two old stanleys. I don't use the stanleys and will probably resell them as they require more time then I have to make them work like the Veritas planes.
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