Replies

1. 
   Y1RET | May 15, 2007 11:39pm | #1

   I have been looking at 20 inch planers also, except I was trying to determine the difference between the various offerings of the same planer. There is a thread further down the list where a lot of use full information was provided by the knot heads. What I decided to do was order the Grizzly G0454 and the Shelix spiral cutter head by Byrd tool. That way I have both heads. The G0454 is on sale for $1175 plus shipping and the spiral head is on sale for $850 but they are out of stock on the spiral head until mid July. Seems like the best buy for the money for this class of planer.

    

   Bob T.

1. 
   BilljustBill | May 26, 2007 05:23am | #28

   Y1RET,

   I have Woodworkers Supply's 20" Woodtek planer since March of 2001.  It's been solid, no trouble, and came with a 3 hp. motor.  With the 20" width and original 4-blade cutterhead, it lets me angle my wild grain stock so chipout isn't so bad.  Also if the new one doesn't have a mobile base, spend $89 for the 1,300lb. rated Shop Fox so you can move it when you have a long, long board....

   Your idea of owning two heads is a good one.  The one thing that I'd caution you about is to consider the intense and detailed work it takes to replace the cutter heads....  The interior gearbox and exterior chains & sprockets that drive the two speed input and output rollers are directly gear driven through the HIGH SPEED, 5,000 RPM cutter head.  Taking the gearbox apart to exchange cutter heads will give you more than a slight challenge.

     What I did was to purchase from "Sunhill Machinery" not only the Shelix cutter head, but with new bearings pressed on and already attached to a brand new equivalent gear box.  Leaving the old cutter head intact with the original gearbox makes removal and replacement much faster and easier.   Installing the new Shelix, with it's new bearings and gearbox not only takes less time, but also it leaves the original cutter head and gearbox intact and useable in an emergency or as emergency parts, should a problem happen and time is short to get replacement parts...

     I think the cost for a Shelix 20" head, new bearings pressed in place, attached new gearbox, and 10 extra carbide cutters cost about $1,150 + shipping.  The $300 higher price might just be worth it considering all the time, work to install, plus consider the cost and shipping expense you'll not spend with extra parts you'll have on hand.

         http://sunhillmachinery.com/store/index.asp?department=2

     Bill

   Edited 5/25/2007 10:39 pm ET by BilljustBill

2. 
   blewcrowe | May 16, 2007 02:37am | #2

   I can't help you with those massive machines. Ah, to have one like that! But I'll say this, I seen and read enough about helix cutters to know I'll never consider buying another planer or joiner without one.

   Good luck on the search. You will have an awesome machine.

3. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | May 16, 2007 06:24pm | #3

   Morning Mutt..

   After doing some extensive side by side (IWF Atlanta... Redmond & Son and Stone Mtn. Power Tool in Atlanta) comparisons of the 20"ers before purchasing a York-craft, I found you that most come from the same assembly line as they don't vary widely except paint. The Power-matic and Steel City do come from an assembly line in Taiwan as opposed to the others that come from the same companies facilities in China.

   Not sure on the Bridgewood sold by Wilke, but their 15" and 20" Yorkie is the same as Grizzly and Shopfox period. I can't comment on the separate motors driving the feed rollers as I have not personally used all of them to deliver stock. The Power-matic and SC have a few add on's that drive the price point up slightly, but they are still basically the same machines.

   I think Bob T. has delivered a solid idea of going with the Grizzly to get the cutter-heads he wants as an extra, but yet keeping the price point about the same as the machines marked higher that doesn't in this case relate to better. His idea is basically "killing two birds with one stone" with both a respectable price with what he wants (advanced cutter-head system) thrown in for no more than the higher priced but basically same machines.

   Regards...

   Sarge.. jt

1. 
   BarryO | May 23, 2007 10:13am | #22

   The light-duty Grizzly 20" planers (same as the Shop Fox) come from China, but I'm pretty sure the heavy-duty dual motors models (they have several) are from Taiwan:

   View Image View Image

1. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | May 23, 2007 03:47pm | #23

   Good morning Barry...

   You may be correct as I didn't do any research into the industrial models. You can look at the base design compared to the 4 post and see it is not in the same design league. And at around an average of $2 K difference in price, I was not interested in looking to close as I don't have the need for industrial strength.

   When you get into that price range, they probably are built in Taiwan. But from what I have heard, most manufacturers there are slowly shifting their base to China to get the "sweat shop" labor rates to reduce over-head. But... that's just what I have heard from two top sources in the U.S. that distribute a brand name and not set in stone.

   Maybe in that price range... instead of Taiwan maybe they should be hand made as an order comes in as Baer Brakes does with their brake systems. 12-14 weeks from the day we fax them a purchase order and they don't hire an additional help to speed the process nor apologize for the wait. If ya want Baer... ya place your order and stand patiently by till you receive it... but when ya get em, they will stop a car on a dime with little effort on the operators part! ha.. ha...

   Regards...

   Sarge.. jt

2. 
   frenchy | May 24, 2007 06:26pm | #24

   BarryO

    The light duty model!

     Hmmm,   what an insult.  I've got one of those"light duty" models and thus far well over 40,000 bd.ft. of hardwood has been planed to perfection with mine..In over 6 years of use I've spent $5.00 (yep! five bucks)  on maintinace. (one fan belt broke leaving me with only two so I zipped off to the local NAPA auto parts store and had a replacement inside of 7 minutes. It took me at least 3 minutes to put it on and that was three years ago, (I think)

     Oh sure I've worn out blades  but what the heck 40,000 + bd.ft. of some really big wood..

    (we're talking about 6"x 12" timbers 22 feet long here)   plus a few  tons or so of simple 4/4 stuff.) 

      Oh it might be nice to have one of those helix headed ones but it's not the end of the world to live with what I have and massively better than those table top Delta's  that I had before..   

    

1. 
   BarryO | May 25, 2007 09:55pm | #25

   OK, meant to say the "heavy duty" and "heavier duty" models. ;)

1. 
   frenchy | May 26, 2007 04:32am | #27

   BarryO

    

    Nah, you were probably right,, I'm sure the others are heavier duty, it's just that I found to my great relief that price does not mean quality or durability.   

    I'm probably overly sensitive to someone casting aspersions on  Grizzly simply because they are modestly priced..   So I guess I owe you an apology,..

     I apologize..

2. 
   BarryO | May 28, 2007 01:05am | #29

   You won't hear me bashing Grizzly; I have plenty of Green iron in my place, including this monster that has a place of honor in the shop:

    

   View Image And when I upgrade my planer, it'll probably be a G1033ZX.

   My point was tht it sounded like the OP'er was looking at industrial-level machines (dual motors, 7.5 HP, etc.) that are in a different class than the less-expensive planers in the Grizzly line.

4. 
   RickL | May 16, 2007 10:34pm | #4

   What size jointer do you have?  In 30 something years of woodworking in factories and small shop I don't see any need to have a planer much bigger than my jointer. How you do glue ups is the trick.

   If you want to plane fast and thick then the spiral head is what you should get. With seperate feed motors I've been able to change feed rates on planers to go even slower.  For planers without spiral heads slowing the feed way down give decent results on curly woods.

   Most of those planers are more the same than different. If you want to avoid spending time with adjustments  (snipe...it is possible to have a snipe free planer)  look at the Minimax planers. All the rollers are preset so you only need to  deal with the knives. They also offer the Tersa heads.

   I work on machinery.

1. 
   Y1RET | May 17, 2007 06:53pm | #5

   I may be wrong in my thinking, but the reason I am buying a 20-inch planer it to plain panels after glue up. I find it easer and produces excellent results to do the glue up on thicker boards, clean up the excess glue then plain the panel. I take less time making sure everything lines up perfectly before the glue up then planning after gives me perfectly flat finished panels. I skip sanding the imperfections out. It also takes much less finish sanding because I have such a flat surface to start sanding on. This process works great with my 12.5-inch delta planer but it does not have enough capacity. A 20-inch planer with a Shelix head should give me very smooth results on wider panels. I think most shops do similar functions using a drum or wide build sander following the glue up.       

   <!----><!----> <!---->

   Bob T.

1. 
   jeff100 | May 17, 2007 09:48pm | #6

   I recently retrofit my jointer with a shelix head and I also will never buy another machine with any other type of cutter. The benefits have proven to be tremendous. Smaller chips, much less cutting force, spectacular finish, much less noise, ease of maintenance. Just doesn't get any better, unless they'd come down in price. Spendy yes, but a textbook case of you get what you pay for....Actually, if you factor in the longevity of carbide inserts that index four times before needing replacement versus the price of resharpening HSS blades over time, the price may even be considerably less anyway with that factored in....My two cents worth.Jeff

1. 
   citrouille | May 18, 2007 12:34am | #7

   Check this out: http://www.casadeimacchine.comC.

2. 
   RickL | May 18, 2007 03:42pm | #8

   Sure, in the factories we glued up panels that way but in the small shop it's not at all necessary or even economical.

   I glue up perfectly flat panels all the time using curved cauls. I thickness my lumber right to size and after the glue up all I have to do is srape off the glue that was under the cauls and sand the planer marks out. I can glue up a 4' x 8' panel myself.  The nice thing is is doesn't take any time to get perfect alignment and I would never even consider wasting time with biscuits or splines. Plus you just use your standard bar clamps and quick clamps. Everyone shoul have cauls around for doing carcase glue ups anyway. Funny thing is most folks don't even know what a curved caul is and I can only recall seeing anything about them is FWW in the last few years. Curved cauls are still one of the best kept secrets in woodworking and the cheapest.

   Get a belt sander that takes a sanding frame. More control. Next step up would be a stroke sander.

   How big a jointer do you currently have?????

   Edited 5/18/2007 9:03 am ET by RickL

   Edited 5/18/2007 9:05 am ET by RickL

1. 
   dominic42 | May 19, 2007 04:30am | #9

   http://www.bowclamp.com/index.html

1. 
   RickL | May 20, 2007 03:34am | #11

   I heard of the bowclamps but can't imagine buying something that costs so little. Beside I've using the curved cauls for 30 years and it goes way back in time. The curved caul is the basis of the simplest veneer press.

2. 
   tinkerer2 | May 19, 2007 06:13am | #10

   How much curve do you put in those cauls and what wood do you use?  I have the ends but have never used them.

1. 
   RickL | May 20, 2007 03:47am | #12

   Have the ends...not sure what that's about. I hope you are not referring to those store bought things. Waste of money and not as good as the simple method using standard clamps. Any kind of wood. Maple, 2 x4, etc. 1/8" crown over 48". Just make some and experiment. Hader woods don't need as much crown. Put plastic shipping tape on the crown side to keep glue from sticking. Lay the cauls crown up across 2 beams about 16" apart. Have your panel stacked nearby and paint on the glue and lay it on the cauls. Put the opposing cauls crown down on the top of the panal and lightly put clamps to secure the cauls. Now add your bar clamps to pull the boards in with light pressure and finish tightening the caul clamps, then go back kand finish tightening the bar clamps. Typically I take a wet rag for tight grain woods or with more opne grain woods let the glue fry a bit and scrape it off. If done right you will have perfectly aligned panels and only need to sand the planer marks out.

2. 
   tinkerer2 | May 20, 2007 06:04am | #14

   "Have the ends....not sure what that is all about.".. 

   YES, looks like I've done it again!  Oh well, there is this auction house down the road.  The rest of your message sounds useful so printed it out for future reference. 

   Thanks

   Paul

5. 
   MWJones | May 20, 2007 05:12am | #13

   I took the plunge and bought the Powermatic 20” with the HH head.  Being accustomed to a 1951 Delta 13”, I was stunned at how quiet and fast this machine was and the surface was close to perfect.  I guess there have been some improvements in the last 50 years.

    

   Why did I choose the PW?  I’ve always had good experiences with my Powermatic machines, and  I’ve always found the pain of writing a big check fades a lot quicker than living with a machine I’m less than happy with.  Also a good local dealer so good service and no shipping cost.

    

   Mike j

1. 
   tinkerer2 | May 20, 2007 06:07am | #15

   I presently have three PM machines and am in the market for a planer.  It will probably be a PM or a Bridgewood.  What is the HH head and do you like it?

1. 
   MWJones | May 20, 2007 04:19pm | #16

   The HH is the Helix head, which is a spiral carbide multi-tooth head (Byrd Helix head http://www.byrdtool.com/index.html).  You can get on the 15" and 20".

   It give an excellent cut, and as the ad says it is unbelievably quiet. The teeth are four sided so you just rotate to a sharp edge, and can be replaced individually in case of damage. Go to the powermatic web side and look at the sale catalog for current pricing if there is not a dealer close to you. I think it worth the extra dollars.

   mj

1. 
   tinkerer2 | May 21, 2007 03:40am | #17

   So the HH (Helix Head), Byrd Head and Shelix Head are the same thing?  Is there a similar - competitor head?  I will be getting a thickness planer as soon as I get some of the junk out of the shop.  Seems it would be more efficient to get the machine with the HH head than have to replace the original one.

1. 
   MWJones | May 21, 2007 06:01am | #18

   Yes, the 15HH and 209HH powermatic planers have the Byrd Shelix cutterhead.

   If you already had a 20" four post planer, you can buy a Shelix head from Byrd for $1200. http://www.byrdtool.com/index.html  They also have a photo how to change cutterheads and it looks in the photos to be a PM machine (gold paint anyway).  I would prefer to buy the machine already together. 

   There may be other planers that come new with the Byrd Shelix head included, I haven't seen one but it wouldn't hurt to do the research.

   mj

2. 
   RickL | May 21, 2007 03:18pm | #19

   Helical head has staggered carbide with the carbide edges parallel with the head.  Shelical is helical with a shear as the carbide is set at a slight angle.

   http://sunhillmachinery.com/store/index.asp?department=2

   Sunhill Machinery carries optional cutter heads including the high spped steel shear knife head.  It doesn't feature rotatable inserts like the carbide helical heads. Carbide lasts 8 times longer than HSS and if you get 4 edges you get quite a length of time so thye aren't  nearly as expensive as you might imagine. Also we've been using this technology for many years in the industrial shops so it's not new technology by any means. At a least 20 years as I recollect. The metal industry has been using insert tooling even longer. By the time it gets to the hobbyist it's pretty much old news.

   Other options for knives are http://www.dispozablade.com as well as the Tersa head and Terminus head.

3. 
   tinkerer2 | May 22, 2007 05:02am | #20

   Thank you for your reply, but ugh, the plot thickens.  I plan getting a planer probably some later time this year.  But what to get?  Does quality correlate with price?  Suppose I could stick with the old tried and proven straight knife.

4. 
   Y1RET | May 22, 2007 04:44pm | #21

   Not to plug Grizzly, but they are selling the 20 inch Shelix head from Byrd for $850, which is $350 less than the Byrd web page. I think it is kind of funny that Grizzly the king of the importers advertises, “Made in the <!----><!----><!---->USA<!----><!----> by Byrd” as being the best money can buy-period!” Used to be lots of the best money can buy stuff was made in the <!---->USA<!---->, now it is hard to find anything made in the <!----><!---->USA<!----><!---->.  Well I guess Toyotas are made here right?  

5. 
   jeff100 | May 25, 2007 10:30pm | #26

   You get what you pay for. I didn't check, but check carefully, I'm betting the Grizzly does NOT come with bearings, which I'm betting the Sunhill does come with. At least that is what I learned when I changed my jointer out with the Sunhill helix cutter. It was cheaper at Grizzly for the same length cutter, but Griz didn't proved bearings!! Add cost of new bearings and the price was a wash!JeffPS - I'm NOT down on Grizzly, I have some of their machines and love them....