Hi
I have a ? concerning routers. I’ve noticed Home Depot has a good sale on Freud routers. I’ve been toying with the idea of buying a plunge router for years. It all comes down to price/ features such as ease of depth adjustment, amperage, size of opening at the base of the router ect. I don’t want to spend more than I have to.
I have a combination Porter Cable 690 kit.. How accurate is that for cutting mortises? Would I be better off purchasing a “dedicated” plunger router?
I don’t have much experience with plunge routers. I have a PC 690 variable speed fixed router mounted beneath my router table and I use my PC 690 fixed router for cutting profiles and dadoes . I’ve only used my 690 with the plunge base once and found it very awkward to use. Not the best setup if you have small hands. The toggle switch is near the top making it difficult to reach. I have to stretch to reach it. Better if the on/off switch was located near the handles as well as the plunge lever.
I’ve looked at the Milwaukee, Makita 3612 Porter Cable, DeWalt 625/621 routers. I’m edging towards buying the Makita plunge router Although I’m a porter cable fan. I own 2 porter cable routers and have never had a problem with either one of the. Only drawback is the price. The PC routers are a lot more expensive.
How much HP is required to cut mortises? Is a 3Hp plunge router the best for that application or could I make due with a 2 1/4-1/2 HP router? Cutting dadoes on boards that are too wide to push across the router table would be a breeze to cut using a plunger router.
Wanda
Replies
Wanda-
The only router I have is a Porter Cable 690 in a plunge base, and although it doesn't have the best handles and is now a decade old it still cuts fine mortises. It has more than enough power to cut a 1/2" mortise in hard woods, and is very accurate. I use spiral upcut bits. If you find it a bit much for smaller hands a 3 hp router is going to be even more of a handful.
The router is so versatile, I'm never sure why people like to have so many. People don't have tablesaws for each of the cuts they can make.
Smoothness of operation is key in selecting a dedicated plunge router. Forget about brand loyalty and sale pricing on this purchase.
I went with the DeWalt 621 internet purchase from Tyler Tool.
Vic
Some notes on power demand vs. function and selection.
The Porter Cable 890 series, has a little more power, and better plunge base than your 690. A plus is that the 890 can be used in the 690 bases, so if you have jig or two that are based on the 690 you don't have to change them.
Basically for cutting mortises about any router will work, probably even the little laminate trimmers could be pressed into service.
Look for a router that is comfortable when you cycle it up and down, and moves smoothly.
Also, I highly recommend that you get and read, "Woodworking with the Router", by Bill Hylton, or the earlier addition by Hylton and Matlack. There is wealth of information on how to choose a router. Plus, a wealth of information on how to get the results you want from the router safely, and some great designs for router tables and my favorites "jigs and fixtures".
The Porter Cable 890 series, has a little more power, and better plunge base than your 690.
The "old" 890 series plunge base is gawd awful. I noticed PC has announced they'll be changing it; based on the pictures I've seen it's the DeWalt 618 plung base painted gray. The DW618 base is based on the DW621 design, and is wonderful. 'might as well just buy the DW618 combo kit rather than the 890.
It will be interesting to see which motor / collet assembly they stick with. Since Dewalt and Porter-Cable are both owned by Black and Decker, I expect some consolidation on production.
For now I continue to buy Porter-Cable.
I have a Dewalt DW625 and have been pleased with it. I love the soft start motor.
Troy
Hi,
My god I have yet to make up my mind as to what router to order. Not sure whether to purchase the 3 1/4 hp or 2 1/4 hp plunge router. But one thing I do know It's going to be one of the Triton routers.
I am so tempted to just go ahead and purchase the 2 1/4 Hp router because it allows you to change the height of the bit above the table without having to reach under the table. Now the 3hp router doesn't come with that feature. But the 3hp router has a slightly more powerful motor. 15amp vs 12amp.
From what I've read so far the 2 1/4 router will probably do everything I ask it to do. It's a very good midsize router. It weighs 3lbs less than the big hefty 3 1/4 hp router. But if I'm not plunging, dadoeing or grooving for long periods of time maybe the added weight won't kill my wrists.
One review I read mentioned that the 2 1/4 HP Triton MOF 001KC was quite capable of spinning a large paneling bit without any problems.
I realize it all comes down to what I will be doing with the router and my budget. The 3hp router costs only $70.00 more.. so price is not a factor.
In one of Pat Warner's articles he recommends a 3hp fixed router for router table work. hmmm
I just want to make sure which ever router I choose is capable of cutting decorative crown moldings for bookcases, cabinets, spice racks and other small pieces of furniture without bogging down. I doubt I'll be making many raised panels but you never know.
Too bad the 3 1/4hp router doesn't come with an above the table bit adjustment. Just how awkward is it too change bits on the 3 1/4HP Triton? I've never used a plunge router beneath a router table before. I'm so used to the Porter cable 690 variable speed router where the motor moves up or down to adjust the height of the bit. The collet doesn't reach far enough above the baseplate so I have to remove the router and place it on top of the router table to change bits. Believe me this is not easy on the wrists or hands. I think I prefer the t-bolt on my older 690 than the latch on my newer 690 variable speed router.
I've read so many books by various router experts (Lonnie Bird, Pat Warner, Bill Hylton, and Gary Rogowski) not to mention numerous online tool reviews on routers/router bits this week... LOL I've done the research Now it's time to make a decision. It all comes down to 2 1/4 hp Triton vs 3 1/4 hp Triton.. (12 amps vs 15amps). I've never had such a difficult time trying to choose a power tool.
Wanda
In my opinion, adjusting the bit height from below the table is simple and not any trouble. I have mounted mine so that the fine control knob is right in the front and easily accessible.Above the table bit changing is huge for me. You can have a new bit in the machine in less than a minute without having to heft the router out of the table.If you care, my opinion would be to go for the 3.25HP Triton. The above the table height adjustment is not worth losing a full HP.I am sure that you will be happy with whatever you get.Josh
Hi Chabber,
Yes, the height adjustment is no big deal. What's important is how easy it is to change the bit from above the table without having to hoist the router completely out of the table. So as long as that's not a problem with the heavier 3hp router. You're right why settle for 2hp when you can have a 3hp router for only $70.00 more and never have to worry about whether you have enough power.
I was planning on mounting the router to a 24X 28 piece of Melamine. I'll just remove the baseplate the router came with and screw the casting directly onto the 5/8" melamine. (no insert) Clamp that to my bench. Fine Woodworking has a great design for a sturdy but less expensive open style router table that just clamps to a workbench.
Some people say cutting out a rectangular hole to fit an insert is not the best idea because over time the table will sag due to the weight of the router.
Now I realize this router comes with a spring that is easily removed by loosening a screw so you can mount it easily beneath a router table. How exactly do you adjust a plunge router to change bits. Is it really that easy... I suppose as long as it has the depth and the collet can reach above the table . It will just take me a little time to get used to it.
Wanda
Wanda,
I'm with Chabber, if my 3.25 had above the table adjustment I'd never use it..under the table is just that fast and easy. I have a Norm style router table and there is plenty of room for my ham hocks and the access is very easy.
BTW, I do almost all my morticing in the router table now, it's faster than hand held in most situations.
Hi BG,
Have you ever heard of Internationaltool.com? I'm just wondering if they're a reputable company. They mentioned on their webpage that they frequently advertise in Fine Woodworking magazine. I must go check one of my mags and have a look for their ad.
I just discovered that internet website tonight. Their prices are really good.... $268.99 for a Milwaukee 3 1/4 HP router. That router usually sells for around $399.00 in Canada.
Wanda
Wanda,
I'm fortunate in that I have two Woodcraft and three Rockler stores in close proximity...so I hardly ever order over the internet. However, with most issues, I usually need to speak with the manufacturer so the retail outlet isn't that important.Several years ago when I decided to upgrade my routing situation I was fortunate that several pro's on here were in the process of doing the same. The general consensus(if there was one) was the DeWalt 621 was best for hand held because the dust collection was superior. Much of the discussion was about the router table setup and there the consensus was the big 3.5 PC or Milwaukee with a Woodpecker lift system in a 1 1/4" thick top with Formica laminate on each side. In other words about $750 bucks. About that same time Triton appeared on the market for $330 and no lift system was required. My first attempt was to fit the DeWalt in the router table using a plastic plate and a melamine top... that lasted about a year before it started to sag. Also, adjusting the DeWalt was a pain. Eventually I migrated to a Rockler metal router plate and a Formica top that cost $2 bucks. I bought my Triton on sale for $210 about 6 months ago. Needless to say i'm a happy camper now.
Wanda: I live in the Ft. Lauderdale area where Int'L tool is headquartered. Have bought lots of stuff from them: air-nailers, jet table saw, blades, powermatic jointer, blades, etc. I have found them to be are very reputable company with good customer service. They carry most major brands: sawstop, steel city, powermatic, jet, festool, Porter cable, etc..... but not triton routers which you're interested in. I just got my 2 1/4 Triton from woodcraft. Will be ordering the veritas steel router table from Lee Valley...good reviews but a bit pricey at $470 but no concerns about sag in the top once the router is installed. Appears to be a good fence system. Incra system from Rockler also looks good. Good luck in your selection. From what I've read about Triton and with the price and features, I don't think we can go wrong with it. I plan to just use it in router table set-up.
P.S. Please send some cool weather down from Canada ( believe that's your location) to SW Florida.
Bruce
Hi Bruce,
I just discovered International tools. The prices are amazing. The Milwaukee router is listed for only $268.00 If I went into my local tool shop here I'd end up paying $399.
As much as I'd love to have a Milwaukee 3 1/4HP fixed based router mounted beneath my table I think I'll go ahead and order the Triton router since I don't have a dedicated plunge router. The plunge base that came with my PC 690 1 3/4Hp router isn't very good. (probably because I have small hands and have to really reach for that plunge lever.
Glad to hear International tools is a reputable store. Wonder how much they charge for shipping and handling outside the States. Here in Canada most stores charge approx. $12.00 s/h
Wanda
Dear Wanda,
I have found that Bosch makes some of the smoothest routers available. (IMHO) They are powerful and compact, with excellent ergonomics. Their plunge takes very little effort and is MUCH smoother than my old PC.
Best,
John
I have severaal routers, but the one I reach for the most is the Makita. Art
Hi Art,
Do you own the Makita 3612C 3 1/4 HP plunge router. It's sells here for $359.99 . I can purchase a DeWalt 3 1/4 plunge for $279.00 Although I think the Dewalt 621 with the dust chute would be fine for my needs. I like the fact that is has the controls built into the handle.
I checked out a Canadian Site online yesterday (Bosstools) They offer free shipping anywhere within Canada. :) Unfortunately, they didn't have the Dewalt 621 listed on their website. So I will have to phone them to find out if they sell that particular model. If not perhaps I would be better off buying the heavier 3hp plunge (625) since I can that cheaper than I can get the 621 at Home Depot.
Went to Home Depot today to see if I could find the Dewalt 621 which they had listed for $299 on their website but they didn't have any routers on display. Before I make my final decision I want to make sure the router is comfortable to use as well as being user friendly.
I will check out the Makita when I go to my favorite local tool store next week. I want to see how that router feels in my hands. I don't want something that's really top heavy.
Wanda
Hi Wanda, I have the 3620, 1 1/4 hp, which has proved adequate for everything I needed to do. I've had it for over 15 years with no problems, very nice egoronomically. Bigger isn't always better or required. Good luck, Art
Wanda, I've bought from Boss a few times now. Thought I was getting good prices on clamps and such. Found out recently how clamps and drill bits from LV work: much better. My last order of router bits from Boss arrived all jumbled up in the box. Not a one of them had the protective gum on it like the ones you get from LV, Eagle, etc. Just my experience. I would look elsewhere. For the question of the router, I picked up a 3 1/4 hp Bosch from Preston Hardware here in Ottawa and think its great both under the table and freehand. LV's big site and head office are down the street from me. Now I go there for bits, and most everything else. Andy
http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/product10?&NMCLASS=00185&NSBCLASS=00313&NETID=2013191006071574562Here are some more prices and brands to compare. A friend bought the 2 1/4 hp Triton (made in Australia) and it's a very nice tool. With our dollar being higher than our southern neighbors you may find better deals there, even when the shipping is factored in. Eg. Dewalt 625 from above is Can$349 and US$260 from Craftsman Gallery and I'm sure others can find a better deals on whichever machine you chose. Things may change in the near future (price drop) as Canadian companies restock with goods bought with a stronger dollar. In the meantime we have the upper hand buying from the US.If you get it shipped by US mail as a parcel, Canada Customs will only ding you a $5.00 brokerage fee plus the PST & GST at the Post office. When shipped FedEx UPS etc there will be a higher brokerage fee along with the same taxes. The difference between the 2 is it takes a little longer through the mail.
Hi QCinspector,
I've been searching... Just found out Tyler Tools doesn't ship to Canada. :(
They had the Makita 3612c listed for $219.99.. what a steal! busybee has the same router listed for around $350
Shame Amazon.com doesn' ship to Canada they've got some tremendous deals on small powertools.
I thought most companies ship using UPS. Therefore you end up getting slapped with a brokerage fee. Supposing the company did ship the item as a parcel.... I'd worry about the contents of the package gettting damaged.
I realize it's going to be awhile before savings are passed along to Canadian consumers. Have to wait till all the "old" inventory sells. If you can find a Canadian company that buys their inventory from the States so much the better. They can offer you a better deal.
So for now I'm continue to search for the best price. Unfortunately, I don't have too many places to shop for the plunge router I'm looking for. Prices at Houseoftools.ca are not cheap. Home Depot and Kent have a limited selection of plunge routers. I must check out dome reviews on the Triton plunge router. If I could get a good deal on the Makita I think I'd choose that plunge router.
Wanda
Wanda, I have all my orders shipped US Mail (to Canada Post). Don't have problems. The last time (long time ago) I used UPS, they delivered the package (computer accessory) with tire tracks on top and the box was a little shorter than it was supposed to be. I won't mention the fact that UPS was the first courier to setup their own brokerage services so they could charge exhorbitant fees. That would put UPS in a bad light... ;) Andy
Something to note from my experience with orders from the US is that they are only exempt duties & tarifs if they are made in the US or Mexico. With so many tools being made in China it is certainly something to consider when ordering from the US. Duties, like brokerage fees, are hidden costs that are usually unknown until the package shows up.
Erik
Yup. And I think that's why many US companies who import from China don't dispatch to Canada. Too much hassle. Companies like Delta who have a Canadian office can import direct. Jim
I have a lot of routers, some big and some small, but out of all of them this one is by the best of the lot. It will do whatever you need it to do for many years to come.http://www.josephfusco.org/Reviews/The%20Festool%20OF%201400EQ%20Router.htmlhttp://www.josephfusco.org
http://joes-stuff1960.blogspot.com/
Home Depot and Kent have a limited selection of plunge routers..OK..DO not take this as Gospel...BUT... I have more than a few routers (PC and Ryobi). I use my routers every day. I have several (5) Ryobi plunge routers (bought at HomeDepot) set up with a bit for particular jobs. Here in the USA they were about $99.00 each. No they are NOT 3 HP and I feel the plunge accuracy could be a bit better BUT they work! I use them on Jatoba, Purpleheart, Hickory, Oak.. All nasty woods to cut.. (I would take light cuts even if the router were 12 HP!) Just me...Get one until you find your 'perfect router'.. I for one think you may just like it! Soft start, 1/4 and 1/2 chucks.. No dust collection But...Just my opinion.. Maybe you can ask for a demo and take over!Sorry but I'm not sure what you are really after.EDIT:I've only used my 690 with the plunge base once and found it very awkward to use.I find ALL routers I have use awkward to use.. To me just getting to the ON/OFF switch so I use a foot pedal switch!I agree with any router.. So I usually use my router tables if possible!
Edited 10/11/2007 9:06 pm by WillGeorge
Will,
You probably have more experience than I have with routers, but I would not be recommending the starter to someone who knows they want to do serious work. Perhaps you haven't had the right router yet yourself?
After deciding to get deeper into debt, er, I mean woodworking, and after going from a Ryobi router/table to a Bosch/Veritas setup, I will never buy another Ryobi tool (of any kind) again.
But that's just my two cents, which (financially) is on par with two cents USD now. ;) Just have to wait for my skill level to catch up with my money...
Andy
First off no fight here and your opinion counts.but I would not be recommending the starter to someone who knows they want to do serious work.I DO SEROUS work with mine and I have used many different brand routers. I do not like the big heavy routers. Just the way I work.As far as being a 'starter'.. I'd say Yes it is a inexpensive tool but it works. It is a starter and as far as the work I put out with them a 'finisher' also..I love expensive tools! But I use them because I can get two or more for the price of others and they do the job for me. I guess I misread the original post. I was just suggesting somethng to use untill the poster found exactally what they wanted and not 'break the bank till' they do'.By the way, All of my Ryobi routers are at least 5 years old (as I recall) and some are used everyday others at least once a week aand none have failed. OK, so I have replaced some brushes for the motors and the plunge rods could be a 'bit' more accurate.Have a great day! Again, I'm not against what you said.
Edited 10/12/2007 12:35 pm by WillGeorge
Sounds like we've covered the two strategies. I researched and bought a router I HOPE will be the last one BEFORE I end up with that many. :)
The biggest one with the best features. Then again, I bowl with the 16lb ball since my strategy there is throw it hard and straight. Not sure that's proper technique though... I have found that the big router laughs at cedar 4x4s even with a large chamfer. It said: push faster, faster!
Andy
Not sure that's proper technique though..I figure if it works.. Do it! A big router is a great tool I just do not use them. By the way, I'm a pretty strong guy but I use very light ball for bowling.
Hi WillGeorge,
I am definitely not a "size Queen". LOL But when you can buy a 3hp Dewalt 625 plunge online for less than you'd pay for the Dewalt 621 2 hp at Home Depot. Decision made!
I have a PC fixed variable speed router connected up to my router table which I use whenever possible. I use my 690 fixed router for other tasks. I'm a big fan of porter cable routers. I love the way they feel in my hand. Very well balanced. Not too heavy. They just feel right. and the depth of cut is easy to adjust.
For what I do I don't need a showcase of routers. But I would like a dedicated plunge router. The plunge base that came with my PC kit cuts well but it's not very smooth. Plunging becomes a workout. I'd also buy the PC 7518 3hp fixed router but that's probably overkill... Unless you're using LARGE bits. I'd prefer to use the smaller bits due to safety reasons. Not sure I'd feel too comfortable using any bit over 2" in diameter.
The best deal I could find online... $279.00 no shipping or handling and no GST. Can't beat that. and it just happens to be a 3hp Dewalt plunge router. I can't get a deal like that at Home Depot. If Pat Warner uses Dewalt you know it has to be good.
Wanda
Have fun with your new router! Hope it is all you wanted. Good price I'd say!Not sure I'd feel too comfortable using any bit over 2" in diameter. I only have one bit that size (lockmiter) and I would NEVER use it in any router that is hand held. I'm a coward!
At last I can chip in! I have seven routers and freehand use nothing over half inch. I once had a bit snag and break off, and boy did that cause an explosion in the undergarment department. Big bits are a spindle job for me.
We just do not have fixed base routers over here and I cannot see the point of them. With all the "raizers" etc now available the plunge is king in my view.
I reckon you talk sense. I bought a dado set in a fit of insanity but have never used it. There are so many ways of getting the same result safely and by the time I had set it up and added guards many of the working brain cells would have died.
Please excuse the drivel. I will have to start talking to my wife, I know it and my son tells me I should, but after all these years it is difficult to change. You can be my substitute.
Wanda, I'm curious where your router is coming from. I'll be interested in knowing if you have to pay GST on delivery or if you're dinged even more by Unbelievable Pain-in-the Side (UPS). Perhaps you found some loophole. I usually only use USPS/CP and they charge any applicable taxes when I pick up from the post office. I'm ok with that. Any other shipper leaves things outside my house (even "sig req'd") or makes me drive clear across Ottawa (its a long way for every package). In the small chance you live in this area, have you checked Preston? thanks in advance,
Andy
Hi Andy,
I know someone here at the forum mentioned that they wouldn't recommend purchasing from Bosstools.ca but the product I'm ordering is under warranty. It comes with a 90 day trial period.
Bosstools.ca doesn't charge GST to first time buyers online. They offer free shipping and Handling across Canada. If I were to purchase the router I saw on the US website for $260 I'd end up having to pay UPS charge of 37.00 plus Gst on top of that. So right now it's still best to buy in Canada. If you can get what you're looking for in Canada buy from a Canadian dealer.
Wanda
Agreed Wanda. However, it was me that reported the bad experiences with boss. Both product and shipping problems. Ymmv. Andy
Hi QC inspector,
I e-mailed Craftsman Gallery yesterday and asked about the s/h costs. Here's what they said...
"The only USPS option is the Priority International Mail which is $36.50.
Don't think I'll be ordering from the States.
Wanda
Hi,
Ok so I've narrowed my search.. Busy Bee has the Dewalt 621 2 1/4 Plunge router on sale for $269.99 Bosstools has the Dewalt 625 3hp plunge on sale for $279.99
I have no intention of mounting a plunge router beneath my router table. If I wanted a powerful router to attach to my router table I'd go with the Porter cable fixed 7518 or the Milwaukee 3hp fixed router.
I was checking out various Dewalt kits.. very impressive but unfortunately the plunge base didn't get very good reviews. So I guess I won't be buying a Dewalt 618 kit. :( I want a router that can plunge smoothly! I all ready have a not so good plunge base that came with my PC 690 kit.
Guess I have no choice but to go with a dedicated plunge router if I want a machine that can plunge smoothly. Unfortunately, the Makita 3612c is a wee bit too expensive.
Now should I go with the 2hp plunge Dewalt 621 or the 625? Not sure if all that POWER (3hp) is necessary when mortising. I definitely won't be mounting it. I'll only be using it freehand. I won't be using the router for long extended periods so not sure if the weight is a big issue. Haven't used a monsterous 3hp router for handheld routing...
Plunge routers are good for cutting stopped dadoes and mortices and inside work like cutting circles but how do they perform when cutting rabbits on the edge of a board????
One thing I do know ... I can't stand the PC plunge base that came with my PC 690 kit. The fixed router is great! but I can't say the same for the plunge base that came with it. What a pain having to switch over the motor into the plunge base.. You have to use a hex key to tighten the small bolt that secures the motor. It's just too awkward. I want something I can just drag off the shelf when I need to cut a mortise or a stopped dado.
Wanda
I have three 3-horse plunge routers; one in my table, one that used to be there, and one for handheld. I've never been particularly comfortable using any of them handheld. Nowadays that's partly because I have a weak wrist, but even when I didn't the 3s were heavy and awkward, even short-term, and magnified any mistakes. I want the power of a 3 for routing out sliding dovetails in one pass, for instance , where you use a straight edge or a jig -- but that job could be done in 2 passes using a straight bit first. You don't have to use the plunge mechanism, so the router can handle any job a conventional router does -- it's just big and heavy. In hindsight, I should probably have bought the 2 for handheld. If you ever truly need the extra power, you can unhook your table model.
I actually bought a cheap small 7amp plunger for doing light edgework etc. It probably wouldn't satisfy a purist, but it does a good job on things I used to do with a PC trimmer. It has a clear base so I can see the work, I can use both hands for better control, and boy it's a relief to hold something manageable.
Good luck, Jim
Ok for edge work.
Excellent for morticing. Always easy on the motor & cutter as any depth increment/pass is attainable.
Routers
Wanda, Not sure why you think you can't have a smooth plunger and a good table mount. The 1619 seems to do both well. Has a quick mechanism to disable the spring for table use. Also has decent dust collection. Unfortunately, at 14lb, its a little heavy and a little out of your price range. There must be smaller ones with similar attributes though. Andy
I'm looking for a router which will only be used under a router table. The three I've narrowed down to are the two Triton models and the brand new Freud FT3000VCE which is a 3-1/4 HP version of the one tested in the Taunton 2008 Tool Guide.
The new Freud got a good review in this month's Wood Magazine. The only knock was that it took 33 turns of the crank to move the router up or down full travel. Can anybody here tell me how that compares to the Triton MOOFOO1KC tested in the Taunton Tool Guide?
The router will go into a Woodhaven cabinet router table, if that makes any difference.
Thanks,
Chris
Chris, Not sure how many turns of the crank my 1619 takes but I'm very happy with it. I flip a lever and move the router up and down when I want that much travel during initial setup. All the controls seem to be in the right place. I started looking at the new Freud when my old router died (only need one). Everyone talked about it and I got a confusing story from Freud and I was waiting for weeks. Finally got the Bosch which is also highly rated. Cost a bit more but was better recommended than the 2200 that is now replace by the 3000. Works very well in a Veritas table, fwiw. Springs stay in but disabled and are quick to reenable to remove from the table. Andy
Fish,
The Triton 3.25 has two height adjusters; a macro and a micro. The macro can move the full range with about 1 1/2 full turns. You grab onto the knob and squeeze an inner collar and turn your wrist. Then there is a fine adjustment which would probably take 50 or more turns to cover the range. It is extremely easy and fast to change bits and set heights. I bought a set of the Whiteside brass blocks to make it even easier.
I'm happy with the 3 1/4 Triton in my table, but there's a potential problem depending on the type and size of table you have. It was designed for the Triton table, which is open underneath. If you have a "Norm" type table -- wasn't that originally an AW? -- it may be difficult to access some features of the router. From handle to handle it measures 12 inches, small enough to fit East - West under my table, but not leaving enough room to manipulate the raising mechanism. That operates at the end of one handle, by pulling a ring outwards and turning the handle knob. It's a nice system, but you need a few inches clearance to the side of the handle for your hand to do this comfortably. In order to change bits, you have to switch off the power. The on/off switch is located near the other handle. If you turn the handles North-South under the table, you'll have easy access to the raising knob, but you'll be reaching blind for the off-switch, unless -- like me -- you had incorporated a second door into the rear of the dust chamber. The best compromise might be to have the handles diagonal.
The 2 1/4 shouldn't have the problem, with the above-table crank. Both have good dust collection attached to the router under the table. I've taken it off, because my built in dust collection does a good job, but it would be perfect for an open table.
Jim
Ok so I've narrowed my search.. Busy Bee has the Dewalt 621 2 1/4 Plunge router on sale for $269.99 Bosstools has the Dewalt 625 3hp plunge on sale for $279.99
You can buy a Makita 3612c for 219.00 from Tyler Tools. Just a google away.
Just a thought.
Hi Danmart,
Unfortunately, Tyler Tools doesn't deliver outside the US.. or else I would have ordered that router weeks ago.. The Dewalt is within my budget.
Wanda
Sorry about that. I read the comments about the 3612br that 8 reviewers sent in to Amazon about their experiences with the 3612. Almost word for word they expressed my experiences with the router over a 12 year period. I loved the router till the day a person came in the shop and stole a bunch of my power tools. I ran off and bought a couple of "speed control" routers from other makers weeks before the 3612c came out. What a mistake. None of them come close to the Makita for me. Porter-Cable is now set in a table, upside down and never to come out again if I can help it.
Wish I was going to Ontario I'd bring one up.
Good Luck
Hello,
While we're on the subject of routers... Are 3hp routers an absolute must for raising panels on the router table? Or could I use the smaller vertical panel raising bits in my 1 3/4HP variable speed PC 690 series router. Those huge Horizonatal bits look very intimadating. Is it absolutely necessary to buy panel raising bits with an "undercutter"..
I was thinking of purchasing a few panel raising bits (vertical) from LeeValley along with a cope and stile set.
Wanda
but how do they perform when cutting rabbits on the edge of a board???? I want something I can just drag off the shelf when I need to cut a mortise or a stopped dado...A big router is a 'bit' to handle.. I'd say it all depends on how well you can guide/keep from tipping it, whatever..Drag it off the shelf BUT you forget some meaningful support or guides for it.I use routers every day.. NO I do not use BIG routers for that reason.. NOT THAT THEY ARE BAD.. I'd say the bigger the router the more support it needs to keep you from tipping it someway..As far as plunge routers go. A tool review does not tell all about a tool. Did they state a reason they felt the plunge was not OK?..If it was because the plunge was sort of hard to 'push down' or such a dab of MolyCoat work wonders! OK so it will collect dust and you will have to clean the rods.. But you should do that anyway.MolyCoat is black and stains but if used in small amounts it WORKS GREAT!
Edited 10/19/2007 11:00 am by WillGeorge
The DW621 for hand use, The 625 is pretty heavy.Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Hi,
OK, I'm torn now between the Dewalt 621 and the Triton 3 1/4 HP and the Triton 2hp.. Problem is I can only afford to add 1 more router to my collection.
I have a 1 3/4hp router mounted beneath my router table now. But Just say I want to make raised panels for cabinets doors in the future a 3Hp router would come in handy. ( I want to keep my options open) Now I realize the smaller 2hp plunge routers are excellent for hand routers and the Triton 3hp is more or less only for table use. ? is can the big triton 3hp ok for the occassional mortise???? and dadoes
Some people have said that a variable speed router like the PC 690 VS I have is ok if I just want to use big panel bits occassionaly. It would just require doing it in several passes. hmmm
I must go downstairs and check to see that the Triton could be mounted beneath my table. My router plugs into a built in electrical box to the left of the router. So I it doesn't matter if the off-switch is not accessible. All I have to do with my set up is flip the switch which is mounted on the front of my router table. That controls the router. I don't need to reach under to turn the router on. Now I'm not too sure how much room I have beyond 12" I'll have to take a measurement.
I could always just go out and buy a 3/4" melamine to mount the router to and then clamp the board with the router attached to my workbench then mount the router to the melamine. First I'd have to cut out a hole for the router bit. Attach a fence and that's it. A portable open router table.
Does the smaller 2hp Triton only adjust from above the table? and the 3hp only from below. That's hard to believe.
Does anyone have a picture of a Triton router mounted beneath a router table.
I'm more convinced then ever that the Triton is a decent router. JUst finished reading an excellent review from the Canadian Woodworking forum. At least now I know exactly how that router works.
Wanda
<cough><cough>BOSCH<cough>... ;) Btw, didn't know there was a Canadian woodworking forum. Thanks. Andy
Hi,
Yup, there is a Canadian woodworking forum online. Canadianwoodworking.com/forum/
Excellent forum!!!!
Wanda
<cough><cough>BOSCH<cough>... ;) I LOVE my new <cough><cough>BOSCH<cough>... ;) Jig Saw!EDIT. I use a 1 1/2 HP or so they state it is.. PC as my main tool in the router table EVEREYDAY!IT IS A WORKHOUSE. And so are my L' Cheep O's Ryobi... No I do not expect them to be a SHAPER!Edited 10/23/2007 10:00 pm by WillGeorge EDIT: arwe is old see going folks with Skull and Cross Bones flag as are!
Edited 10/23/2007 10:03 pm by WillGeorge
" must go downstairs and check to see that the Triton could be mounted beneath my table. My router plugs into a built in electrical box to the left of the router. So I it doesn't matter if the off-switch is not accessible. All I have to do with my set up is flip the switch which is mounted on the front of my router table. That controls the router. I don't need to reach under to turn the router on. Now I'm not too sure how much room I have beyond 12" I'll have to take a measurement"
Actually it does matter. I have the same setup, but I still have to turn off the power at the router itself in order to change bits -- It's a safety feature that locks the shaft, allowing you to use a single wrench from above the table.
The 3.25 does only raise from below the table. there's said to be an above-the-table version coming, but it will inevitably cost more. With the 2.25 you have the choice of operating the same as the bigger model, or using the above-table crank.
The more power the better for the larger panel bits. I actually raise the bit in stages even with the large router, just to be safe. I've never tried a smaller router, but I don't see why a 2hp wouldn't do it.
The 3.25 is perfectly usable off the table, though its big and heavy like all 3.25s. It looks very top-heavy, but it's no worse to use than most of the other big beasts, though I only used it handheld a couple of times from curiosity. I just wouldn't use it that way every day unless you need the power. You'll wind up with thick wrists!
Jim
Hi,
Have a few ?'s regarding the Triton routers. (TRC 001 3 1/4HP) and the MOF 001CK 2 1/4hp I take it these models are the latest... I was checking an online site and they had the TRA 001 model listed. The review I read from Fine woodworking didn't give the model number just listed it as the 3 1/4 HP Triton Plunger router. Their review gave it high marks. Just wondering if the router they reviewed was indeed the TRC 001 3 1/4HP
How easy are they to mount beneath a open table? Can you just take off the base plate that comes with the router and mount it to the table using 1/4 20 bolts? or do you need a special Base mounting plate?
I had no problem mounting my PC router. I just removed the origional base plate and screwed the router to the lexicon insert using the small bolts that came off the base plate.
I'm leaning towards the 3 1/4 HP router. Doesn't hurt to have extra power when you need it. And I don't want to find out the hard way that when the time comes and my skills improve and I start experimenting with larger bits I just might need that extra power. Unless someone can convince me that a 2 1/4" router has the ability to safely power a 2" diameter back panel cutting router bit...
How does the collet compare to the collet on the PC routers? Apparently the 3 1/4HP Triton comes with a 1/2" collet with a 1/4" reducer.. hmmm
Wanda
Edited 10/23/2007 9:11 pm by Wanda200
It uses four 1/4 20 screws. You take off the original base and attach the router to whatever insert you have in your table. I had to drill new holes in the insert, which originally housed a Freud. I did find that the screws were too short, but you can find that size anywhere. I believe I used 3/4 inch long ones for a 3/8 inch thick phenolic insert.
Jim
Sorry, didn't answer all questions. The TRC001 and TRA001 models are apparently the same. When I bought mine I had the people at Busy Bee tied in knots trying to answer the same question. There's one number on the box, and a different one on the machine. Apparently they do minor changes on models as they go along, and slightly change the model number. According to BB, there's only one model available.
The only PC router I have is the laminate trimmer, and I detest the collet in that. It's an insert, in fact, though the machine handles only 1/4 bits. You have to use a hammer most times to free the bit from the collet. The Triton 1/2 inch collet is exceptionally good. It needs only a quarter turn to tighten, and you can free the bit easily. The 1/4 insert sits inside the 1/2. You line up the gaps and tighten as usual. The insert I got is slightly different from the one shown in the manual -- maybe that's one of their silent upgrades. I've used the 1/4 only once, as most of my table bits are 1/2 inch. One odd thing in the manual is that they tell you to make sure that the bit is all the way home in the collet. Most manufacturers tell you to leave a slight gap to allow for heat expansion. I've been leaving a very small gap, with no ill effects.
Jim
Wanda - here are some pics of my 3.25 HP router mounted in the Veritas router table.Josh
Chabber,
That's quite the setup you have. I'm turning green!!!!!!!!! :) Veritas makes great stuff. Canadian made can't get any better than that. Nice table! Is the alignment pin used for template routing ? ex. curved pieces where you don't have a pilot bit to guide the workpiece.
Quick change clamps.. are those magnetic? or do you have to mount them to the underside of the table top? The fence you have attached to your table.. is it adjustable? does it slide?
My god! the Vertias table top and it's accessories cost as much as the 2 1/4Hp Triton router. Does it really only take 30seconds to remove the router from the table?
Wanda
PS thanks for the great pics.
The veritas table fence moves in 2D on the table and secured by two clamps on the edges of the table. Works quite well. There are other accessories that work the same way. Dust collection is by magmount. Fwiw, my 1619 barely fit. Its on an angle under the table but with the power switch and height adjustment out front. Takes less than 30 seconds to install or remove (unless you forget to unhook router dust collection first). Even the video that comes with it is good. Andy
Hi, Wanda.You should have invested some money when you started this thread. By the time it is over you will have enough to buy any router you want. :) You are better than I am; it is good to make an informed choice.The alignment pin, AFAIK, is only used in the beginning when you set up the table to center the router in the table when adjusting the clamps. Once the clamps are adjusted you no longer need (unless you were to install a different router).The clamps are not magnetic. There are 4 bolts that connect them to the table. The bolts are ground off flush with table top.
The clamps come attached to the table. I believe someone else answered the question about the fence. I would say 30 seconds is about what it takes to remove/install the router.I am not sure if Lee Valley sells it separate, but the video for the table and other accessories (right angle sled, etc.) is quite good and very helpful.Have fun with whatever you choose.Josh
Josh,Do you have that table bolted down? Don't see clamps in the pic. Just curious. I clamped mine to a low table and its been in place since. Doesn't look like you have the bit jack and pin router but I'd like to hear from anyone who has and what you think of them. Andy
Hi, Andy.Not sure which table you mean, the actual steel top or entire table? The steel top is held in place by 4 rubber "bumpers" that fit into the corners underneath. The entire table is not attached to anything, but I have been meaning to use the little right angle metal pieces they provide to attach it. I haven't really had a problem with it moving.I hope I answered your question.- Josh
Josh, I'm surprised it hasn't moved on you. I clamped mine to the surface of a larger table soon as I put it together. I've pushed 4x4 posts and various hardwood through it with large bits and I'm sure that would have pushed the veritas table off the larger table if it wasn't clamped in place. ;) You might just want to put a couple small clamps on that small panel bottom-front. To answer a couple other people's questions I've read, I get no vibration and its easy enough to remove a large router quickly without removing the table top. Helps to tilt the top up and rest on the built in rest-thingy (think that's the technical term for it). However, I don't find myself doing that for bit changes. Andy
Josh: Thanks for the pix's. I just ordered (Woodcraft) and today rec'd. the Triton 2.25 and am seriously considering the Veritas and like the set-up that you have (yikes it's pricey). I like the steel plate though and the fence system and options
How has the clamping system to fasten the router underneath worked? Any issue with vibration or movement once the router's mounted? Seems to me the design would be better if it could be mounted directly to the underside of the table as with most other tables (I plan to only use the Triton for table routing). I also read that with the underneath clamping system to hold the router that the baseplate doesn't have to be removed.
Bruce
Hi there, Bruce.Yea, the Veritas system is expensive, but I really like it. It was my first real "splurge" in woodworking equipment. The steel plate is great in that it is smooth without the mounting holes for 18 different router models. The clamping system is mounted directly to the table (of course), but the bolts are ground flat to the table top. I have included a better pic of the underside of the table and the clamping system. I have not experienced any movement of the router due to vibration. But since you can remove the bit while in the table with the Triton, I place one hand below the table to brace the router if I have reef a little on the bit to get it loose. The router has shifted slightly in the past while loosening a bit. It has not caused a problem, the router just rotates a little in the clamps.You're correct, you don't have to remove the baseplate on the router. At least I don't have to with the Triton. It IS very simple to remove the router from the table, about 30 seconds. The first time you mount the router you have to go through some trouble of centering the spindle in the table, but you only do that once.The fence is excellent with many attachments as you note. I would highly recommend getting the little brass clamps that can be used for stops on the fence. Although, it would be easy to just use any clamp. I also have the fine adjustment for the fence which is handy.Let me know if you want additional pics, I will be happy to supply them!Good luck!Josh
Josh: Thanks for the comments and pix and sorry for the delayed reading on this as I've been away. I think it's between this and the Jessem system. Both look like they're very well made. I really like the steel table on the Veritas. Reviews I've read on other tables seem to indicate problems with sagging from the weight of the router.
Bruce
Hi Chabber,
What made you decide to mount a plunge router beneath your router table? why not a Fixed based router. What advantages does the plunge have over the fixed based when it comes to mounting them under the table?
Which knob on the Triton do you use to raise the router so the collet projects above the level of the insert so you can change bits. Excuse my ignorance but I have no experience with under the table mounted plunge routers. I'm just so darn used to my Porter Cable 690 LRVS. 11amp heavy duty fixed based router.
Why is it that Pat Warner prefers fixed base routers over plunge routers for table mounting? He prefers the Milwaukee 3 1/4 HP and the Porter Cable 7518 fixed based router for mounting beneath the router table. Also mentioned that the Milwaukee was easy to mount because of its casting. I believe he mounted it to a 5/8" piece of good quality MDF. He doesn't believe in using inserts because of possible sagging after time.
Wanda
Wanda -I didn't necessarily choose this router for just table work. At the time, I was looking to get a router that would work good in the table as well as something to use for hand work. The hand work required that I get a plunge router and when the review came out so good for the Triton, I went for it. I have now dedicated the Triton to the table and purchased a Festool 1400 for hand work.On the Triton, there are two adjustments. One for gross macro adjustment and one for micro. I have attached a pic with the knobs indicated. It is a little big, but I wanted you to see the detail. For the macro adjust, you need to squeeze the orange collar and then twist the knob. You turn that until the bit is up all the way. Then turn the bit by hand until the spindle locks.Josh
Hi Chabber,
Thanks for the pic. What kind of hand routing have you done with your Triton.. before it was mounted? Have you ever used the guide bushes for template routing. Some people use them for cutting mortises. Not sure if that's necessary.
The ideal set up would be to mount a Milwaukee 3 1/2 hp or PC 7518 fixed base router beneath the table and buy a 2 1/4 HP Triton for plunging.
For now I think I'll stick with the PC 690LRVS 11 amp fixed base router I have mounted beneath my router table. What I really need is a quality Plunge Router. I thought about purchasing the big HP Triton but after thinking it over and over in my mind.. I think the 2 1/4 Hp might be the best choice. After all plunge routing doesn't require a lot of HP. A 2hp is fine. Not like I'm planning on cutting deep mortises.
Now would't it be great to own 2 Triton routers .. 3 1/4hp mounted beneath my router table and the 2 1/4Hp for plunging and other handheld operations. LOL
If I knew as much as I do now about routers I would have built my own open style router table.
Wanda
Why is it that Pat Warner prefers fixed base routers over plunge routers for table mounting?I cannot speak for Pat Warner but ALL parts made for anything have some tolerances that the manufacturer 'try's builds to. I have several plunge routers and they are ALL a bit different on the cut as you progress up/down the rails/rods that allow the router motor to move into it's new position. YES, small differences but differences..I am not knocking plunge routers at all.. However, a fixed base is the best for a router table.. What do I know? Nothing.. but I love my routers.. Some sweet and some not so sweet as far 'slop' in the plunge parts..
Hi guys,
Ok so what fixed routers do you own and which one do you have beneath your router table WillGeorge.
BG what projects have you tackled with your new 3 1/4 HP router? Do you use a plunge more than a fixed based router? What's the best router to use when when it comes to cutting 1/4" dadoes on the sides of a long 6 foot bookcase to fit a plywood back? I used my table saw to cut the dadoes on my last adjustable bookcase. Not sure how safe that is but it worked very well.
The price is unbeatable when it comes to the Triton. Hard to resist ad deal like that. If only I could get a sweet deal on a Milwaukee 3 1/2 hp router. I could easily mount that compact style router beneath my table. Unfortunately, the router table I have (R-1000) is not an open style table so I wouldn't be able to mount a Triton. (not enough room on either side of the handles which measure 12 inches from knob to knob. For that style router I would Have to build a portable stow away router table like the one designed by Fine Woodworking. Space in my small basement tool room is at premium.
Way too many routers to choose from. Now Freud and PC have routers that you can mount underneath a table which come with an above the table winder that can release the latch without having to go beneath the table and manually unlatching it with your hand. I don't know why so many people think it's such a big deal to have to use 2 wrenches when changing bits. The PC uses 2 wrenches but at least the collet rises far enough above the table insert so you can change bits. I find the collets on the PC routers I own excellent. I would never invest in one of those expensive router lifts. ON the Milwaukee you have to reach beneath the table release the latch. hmmmm
Wanda
Edited 11/2/2007 1:26 pm by Wanda200
Wanda,
"BG what projects have you tackled with your new 3 1/4 HP router?"Nothing special so far, I did get a raised panel bit but have not made anything with it yet...it's big and a little scary. As I mentioned, I'm doing almost all my mortising on the router table because set up is so quick and easy.
Deciding to use the hand held verses the router table on any particular procedure needs to consider many factors in my opinion. The flatness of the stock and the flatness of the router table will effect the outcome...the hand held moves with the undulations, the router table doesn't. Another issue is the size of the bit, I don't like using big bits in the hand held position. If you think about it, the more your router table resembles the table saw in terms of solid flat cast iron the better it will perform.
Lastly, when I was shopping six months ago for a new router there were a lot of good models out there. Sure there are differences but not enough to be severely disappointed over.
Hi BG,
When you get up the nerve to use that Big honking panel bit let me know how it works out. I saw some rather large Freud panel bits at Home Depot and they look very intimidating. View ImageI Think I'd attach a plastic guard on the router fence to shield the bit. Not sure I'd want to use a bit over 2 1/4" in diameter in a router table.
Off to watch Hockey Night in Canada now. Leafs vs Habs. Should be a good one.
WandaView Image
Hi BG,
Have a ? for you. How wide is the base opening on your 3 1/4 Triton router? The base opening on the PC 7518 is 4.5 " plenty big to dwarf any 2 1/2 " panel bit.
Just curious because I was reading a post on the Canadian woodworking forum earlier about how to set up and use a large 3" panel bit. Can the Triton 2 1/4" router use the large 2.5-3" panel bits?
Wanda
Wanda,
I went down and measured..my panel bit is 3" and I have had that in the router(Triton 3.25). The router opening is larger than 3" but not by much...I have it set up for another procedure so its a bit hard to get an accurate measurement. It would not accommodate a 4.5" bit that's for sure. I don't know what a Triton 2.5" would accommodate.
Edited 11/4/2007 8:11 pm ET by BG
The tool test in FWW # 189 gave the base opening as 3 and a sixteenth. This was the only quibble the reviewer had with the tool.
Jim
BG, Not sure I've ever seen a 4 1/2" panel bit. :) I found out today that the Milwaukee comes with a t-bar that raises the router above the table. That's a huge plus. Not to mention the 3 1/4 HP. Went in to visit my local tool shop but they didn't have any Milwaukee routers on the shelf. So I couldn't test it out.
The Milwaukee would fit nicely beneath my router table. International Tools is selling it for $268.00 Now to find out how much I'd have to pay out in Brokerage fees/customs. I must phone and find out how much they charge for s/h. I bet with all the taxes and duties it will still be cheaper than buying at my local tool shop. ($399 plus .14% GST. = $454)
Take a look at this pic and it will give you a better idea of what I was trying to describe.
Wanda
I was checking out various Dewalt kits.. very impressive but unfortunately the plunge base didn't get very good reviews. So I guess I won't be buying a Dewalt 618 kit. :( I want a router that can plunge smoothly! I all ready have a not so good plunge base that came with my PC 690 kit.
I don't know what reviews you've been reading, but Pat Warner, who probably knows more about routers than anyone, says on his website that the DW618 plunge base is essentially equal to the DW621 (and in fact is based on the same design). My DW618 plunge base is silky-smooth and rock-solid). Much better than the gawd-awful PC890 plunge base I had.
I found the 3612c on the web for 249.00 and 269. If the money is the breaking point, maybe a web search would help.
Wanda, I have two routers presently. I have a Porter Cable 6902 fixed base and a Dealt 621 plunge router. I leave the PC permanently attached to the router table. Here are some comparisons between the two.
I have had the Dealt for about 10 years now and I still like everything about it. I purchased the Porter Cable mainly because of its brand name. I was disappointed with its archaic technology from the very beginning. That is why I leave it mounted to the router table.
Presently I am looking into replacing the PC in order to get a router that is adjustable from the top of the router table. So far I have been impressed by the
Good luck finding just the right one for you. They do last a long time so make sure you check them all out and you will be smiling for a long time.
HorseGuy
Another vote for Triton.
Hi Ed,
Haven't ordered my router yet... FW did a review on routers a while ago and the Triton was one of them. Too bad I don't have a copy of that issue. I know Popular Woodworking gave it rave reviews.
How do you find the handles on the Triton router? Is it as ergodynamic as the Dewalt I wonder. Hmmm If I'm not mistaken that router comes at a pretty darn good price. Does it require 2 wrenches to change bits? Not that I mind using wrenches to change bits... That's what I'm used to. Not sure how I feel about spindal locks.
Wanda
The Triton review should be on line. I have the larger 3 1/4 but I use it in the table only, so I can't say about ergonomics. Both models have one-spanner change, and in both you can change bits above the table (if you use one). The 2 1/4 can be raised from above the table also. In the other model you can't, but it's still easy to raise/lower. Both have a link that ensures you can only change bits with the power switch off. If you wanted to get into table routing you could do so quite cheaply with the Tritons since they're really designed for an open table. They have a dust collection system attached to the router which is under the table, and works well. (You do have to remove it for large panel bits) It's also reasonably quiet. I'm quite pleased with mine, especially the ease of raising and lowering, since I have arthritic hands.
I don't know if you're close to a Busy Bee, but they have the 2 1/4 for $199 and the 3 1/4 for $259. The low price for the latter is said to be because a new model is in the works, but I'm quite happy with the present one. If you check out the Busy Bee site, they have sale prices on some Dewalts right now. Their shipping rate is based on price, and in this case would be $12.95.
Buying Canadian doesn't always work out better. For example, if you wanted the new Bench Dog Table saw router insert, you'd have to go to House of Tools and pay $100 more than any US outlet. (In the unlikely event that you did want one, Lowes carries them in the US, and are opening their Toronto store in a couple of months.)
Hope this helps, Jim
Hi Jimurock,
Only thing holding me back is the availability of parts. If I went out and purchased the Triton I'm not too sure I'd be able to get replacement parts for it. Or I'd end up having to speical order them.
If I decide to go ahead and purchase the dewalt plunge at least I know I'd have no problems finding parts or having it serviced.
The Triton is on sale for $199 which is an excellent price. Not sure you can beat that.
I was a click away from ordering the Dewalt 3hp plunge router last night! :)
I have to find a way to justify my tool purchase. Perhaps I can make do for now using the PC plunge base I all ready have. The prices on those plunge routers are tempting. Not sure I can give up a deal like that.
Wanda
Wanda
BB has carried Triton for several years now, since when the 3hp cost well over $300, so it must be a well established co. by now. Triton has a Canadian office in Cornwall that might answer any questions you had. (1 888 874 8661) I've never had to contact them for anything, but there was a thread on Knots recently that was quite complimentary about their customer service in the US.
Happy hunting, Jim
I went looking for a new plunge router when the smoke came out of my old makita....One of the things I observed in holding and assessing various models of various manufacturers was that some of the post/base methods of construction give the router an inherent "slop" or "play" if you press down on the unlocked side. As I sometimes use panel raising bits in this beast, I tried to ascertain just how much slop some of them had, and when I had selected the best that I could find with my eye-ball touchy feely methodology applied in the store, I bought one (forget who made it)Took it to the shop and mounted a panel raising bit in it. With hand pressure I was able to induce darn near 1/16" deviation at the tip of the bit. Got to figuring that if the bit "grabbed" it could induce that much wobble and more, and I figured I could do without trying to sand that off that kind of "ripple" on raised panels..Funny thing is I ain't observed this kind of test in any of the product reviews.....Took the puppy back, and walked away with a Hitachi M12V, and yes, at a bit more money than I wanted to spend, but I have been happy with it since. Soft start, variable speed, good rigid construction.BTW, that makita that "smoked" was in a router table, why? because within a week of buying it, I dropped it, and the puppy would never plunge smoothly after that (wonder why eh?) It got resurrected eventually and got pressed back into service. A feller can never have too many routers eh?anyway, that's my input. Eric
in Calgary
Wanda,
The Triton 3.25 is head and shoulders above the DeWalt 625 in a router table. I have the DeWalt 621 for handheld stuff and wanted the 625 for the router table...but its very hard and slow to adjust the height with the adapter. The Triton is amazingly fast to change a bit or adjust the height.
A click away from the DW265, The 625 is heavy for bench work. Mine stays in the router tabe 95% of the time. The DW621 is great for bench work.Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Hi Jimurock,
Do you happen to know if the new Lowe's store in Toronto will carry Milwaukee 3 1/4HP routers.
I"m trying to get the lowest price possible. So far the lowest price has come in at $421 (taxes, shipping and handling) Now I could call International tools find out how much they charge for s/h and then find out duties and taxes involved in importing merchadise. Wish all stores were linked up with borderfree.
Wanda
wanda
Wanda.. Did not know you were in Canada? I think?Anyway..
http://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-5625-20-Horsepower-Variable-Adjustment/dp/B00007FPJK/ref=sr_1_3/102-5366597-6193741?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1195171993&sr=1-3About $260.00 US Not sure it is the model you want... Fixed base I think.. Also free shipping but not sure if they ship/sell to canada..
Hi Willgeorge,
to set the record straight.. I do live in Canada.. :)
That's the "monster" I'm determined to purchase. 5625 3 1/4. Shame Amazon doesn't ship to Canada.
Duties and taxes are a killer! The websites can only tell you how much they charge for shipping and handling. They have no idea how much duties and taxes the Canadian gov. will charge once the goods make it to the border. Only 1 site I have come across (Woodcraft has linked up with Canada Post.. Border free. Their website calculates your order in Canadian dollars and tells you the exact amt you have to pay in shipping/handling and taxes/duties if applied. But that website doesn't sell Milwaukee. :(
Best Price I've found so far has been Bosstools (Canadian company) $421.00 taxes and shipping in.
WAnda
Maybe you could get you best dress on and go to Lee Valley and talk to 'person' in charge to carry the line.. Just a thought..Or maybe I could swim across the Niagara and hand you one as catch my breath to go back to Chicago?
Edited 11/15/2007 7:44 pm by WillGeorge
View Image View Image
Sorry, don't know. 3 stores are due to open in DEC in Ontario, the Toronto one not till Jan. I'm halfway between Toronto and Detroit incidentally, so 2 hrs away. Lowes USA doesn't show Milwaukee on its website, so I wouldn't hold my breath.
Have you tried Home Depot? I bought my Milwaukee Sawzall there, and they're currently offering a Milwaukee plunge router on the Canadian website at a reasonable price. I don't know if you have a local store? Sometimes they'll carry more models than the website, or will order what you want if they do business with the manufacturer -- though you'll probably pay list if they have to order.
I've also seen Milwaukee tools at Rona and TSC.
If you're ordering from the US and the tool is made there or in Mexico, there should be no import duty because all 3 countries are part of the North American Free Trade zone. My Sawzall doesn't say where it's made. That suggests the US, because imported tools are obliged to show the country of origin.
Hope this helps,
Jim
> I'm halfway between Toronto and Detroit
Had to laugh Jim. This is often how I describe where I'm from as most people in this ignorant province think London means England.
Andy
There's a London in England? Maybe they should change the name to end the confusion.
Jim
I double-checked at Milwaukee.com and they do show Lowes as a distributor. That doesn't necessarily mean e-trade though. If you go to the Milwaukee site and enter your postal code you can find the nearest distributor to you, and they can order whatever you want. That doesn't help you with price, though.
Jim
I sure hope you can get a Milwaukee 5625. I have just finished a custom Hickory door using a lock miter bit running 40 ft of solid hickory in one pass. That machine is a monster and handled the task in stride. Well worth the hassel you are having if you can get it.
Hi jimurock,
Nope that doesn't help with the price. I have a local dealer here that sells Milwaukee but I'd end up paying $399.99 then add .14% taxes and you're up to $456.00
Wanda
My local tool specialist will usually give me a deal if he thinks I'm serious about going elsewhere. Worth a try.
I've never ordered tools from the US (except through a dealer), but I routinely order other things such as books. I've never had any difficulty with customs or duty. To qualify as American and non-import a tool doesn't even need to be 100% from the US. If you can find someone to ship it, I'd go that route.
Jim
Hi Jimurock,
Is it because I'm a woman?.. LOL I have never gotten much of a deal off any of the powertools I've purchased from my local tool shop. Maybe a $20.00 reduction. I have purchased 2 routers, jointer, planer, band saw, router table, table saw from them. Just recently I ordered a G/I bench top drill press from them. Still waiting for it to come in. I was told it would be only take 2 weeks. Well that was back in Sept.
You'd think they'd give me a half decent deal. For eg. I was interested in the PC 7518 router a while back which was selling at the time for $499. They were willing to sell it to me for $480. Now you think they could do better than that considering all the tools I've purchased off them in the past 3 yrs.
wanda
"I have never gotten much of a deal off any of the powertools I've purchased from my local tool shop."
You have to go on Ladies Night. Or maybe wear a wet T-shirt or something....
-Steve
"Now you think they could do better than that considering all the tools I've purchased off them in the past 3 yrs."
Don't they have a contractor's rate? Where I live you don't have to be a contractor to get one, just buy enough stuff. Of course there's plenty of competition here. I think I'd be finding myself a better dealer, even if I had a long drive to find one.
Jim
Have you checked out Ebay? A quick look there found Hardware Sales Inc offering the 5625-20 at C$245 with shipping to Canada at $52 US. I know nothing about the company, but you can get feedback from them and from customers on the site.
Jim
Hi,
Although I do buy books online I would never buy a tool online.
I was in touch via e-mail with International tools. The estimate they gave me was around $39.00 for shipping and handling. They e-mailed back and asked for my mailing address so they could give me a better estimate. They had the lowest price. $268.00.
It's not the s/handling but the duties/taxes involved in importing merchandise that costs. American companies have no idea how much Canada customs will charge once the router makes it over the border.
unfortunately, I don't know anyone in the US. Yes, it would be great if I had a friend living in the States they could just send it Standard post.
I live on the eastcoast so crossing over the border is out of the question. No over the border shopping spree for me. :(
Wanda
Edited 11/16/2007 4:05 pm by Wanda200
Well, you have to stay within your own comfort level. However there shouldn't be any mystery about what duties are charged; there are none for US made goods. US companies won't commit themselves to saying what duties there are because they can't be bothered finding out, and they don't want to be held responsible for errors. The only times I've had a problem with customs opening and delaying parcels was when they were sent by private individuals as gifts, and not a commercial transaction. And even sent by surface mail, postage on a hefty router isn't going to be a lot less than what they quoted you, especially if insured. Looks like you're going to be stuck with a Canadian (read ripoff) price.
Jim
Wanda,
I suspect that the new Lowes in Toronto will sell that Milwaukee router. The Lowes here in Ann Arbor, Michigan sells Milwaukee tools although I'm not sure about that particular router.
If they don't, a trip to Michigan might be called for especially with the favorable exchange rate and the lower sales tax. London is about half way between Toronto and Detroit.
However, I don't know if you might get hasselled at the border. I have a summer home in Canada (Nfld) and routinely bring my tools back and forth across the border without any problems. Most of the tools were purchased in the States but they never ask. Then again, my tools are not brand new and my situation is a bit different from your's. Good luck.
Chip
Hi,
I went to the Lowe's website typed in Milwaukee 5625 fixed based router. They don't have it listed on their website.
Wanda
Fortunately I rarely buy a tool that I am dissatisfied with. My purchase the DeWalt plunge router was an exception. (I wanted dust collection - didn't really get it.)Reasons for dissatisfaction: Spindle lock does not work. When I am able to engage it, I need pliers to pull it back out it. Now I use 2 wrenches.Turret stop is not accurate. It has a sloppy fit so that it tips when contact is made. All in all quality control is poor - or worse!Depth of plunge is less than I want - but I haven't compared specs with other units. I lust for a mid-sized Festool so I can use it with the guide bar.Frosty"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
"Spindle lock does not work. When I am able to engage it, I need pliers to pull it back out it."
Sounds like it's just dirty.
"Turret stop is not accurate. It has a sloppy fit so that it tips when contact is made."
That's not a sloppy fit--that's how it's designed (so you can lift and rotate it against spring pressure without having to unscrew anything). And it doesn't tip so much as "settle" against the spring when you contact it. If you press down with any reasonable amount of force while plunging, it will bottom out consistently, with no inaccuracy.
-Steve
Thanks for the comments.The spindle lock was a poor fit from the day I bought it. Just a case of poor alignment. I understand what you say about the turret. I am just used to the finer "fit and finish" of my Bosch.Frosty"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
Hi Wanda, I see at least one of your questions was answered; one wrench, and above the table. Easy.
As for ergonomics - the handles are kinda bagel like, but they don't taste very good ;-) . I like mine (using in a table), YMMV.
I will also throw my vote in for the Triton 3.25 in a router table. I bought it originally to use as a table router AND hand work. This router is not designed for hand work. It is awesome in the table, Plenty of power.
I recently bought the Festool 1400 for hand work and it is a dream to use.
Good luck,
Josh
The only router I have is a Porter Cable 690 in a plunge base, and although it doesn't have the best handles and is now a decade old it still cuts fine mortises. It has more than enough power to cut a 1/2" mortise in hard woods, and is very accurate. I use spiral upcut bits. If you find it a bit much for smaller hands a 3 hp router is going to be even more of a handful
Wanda
One of the things I have been most disturbed about is the handle orientation on some of the routers. It might not be an issue with you if you start out on one brand and continue. I started out on the Makitas(3612br). I loved it but so did another person.
I went out and bought a PC and the fence and handles are oriented 90 degrees different than what I had become comfortable with. This makes me uncomfortable every time I cut a mortise. I have put it on the shelf for little things but not for mortising.
I am not up on all the brands and the features of the newest models but I have really liked the 3612 early generation. The only feature it lacked was the speed control. Now they have it.
I think you have to hold the router and press the buttons to see if it works for you. That's important. The Makita 3612 is OK with me but many of my friends do not like it because they feel it is much to heavy to use all day. I never use a router for more than 30 minutes at a stretch.
Handle Orientation is my input: (photos attached)
I don't know if this will help, but Peachtree is having a $100.00 off sale on a Freud FT2200E 3-1/4 HP Variable Speed Plunge Router. The regular price is $219.99. the E-Direct Special Price is $119.99.
here is the link: http://www.ptreeusa.com/edirect_101207.htm
Mrhermit,
That almost sounds too good to be true.. A 3 1/4HP router for less than $200.00 hmmm Makes me wonder.. you usually get what you pay for.
Only wish the makita would go on sale. Sure would make my decision making a lot easier.
Wanda
Wanda..
I was looking at the Festool 2000E.. Router. NICE TOOL!, Very NICE Tool!, About $430.00 from Rockler (Less Tax) US.
I could find no play in the plunge whatever. This one takes the larger bits (1/2 inch US) and they have a smaller one that looks like (1/4 inch US) and is a bit less expensive.. It appeared to have depth adjustment that is accessible thought the base for table mounting..
I'd get one it was so nice but I have to many routers now!
I think this link will get you a start. I did not see any pricing but I did not look that long.. The company is hafele with a bunch of funny characters stuffed in there.. LOL...
http://www.hafele.com/ca/en/703.asp
Wanda, Wanda, Wanda. By the time you make your decision about where to buy the router there will be new models plus additional suppliers and you'll need to begin all over again. The $50 or so dollars you may save is going to be spent on antacids or chocolates combating the stress.A couple of years ago I bought a Dewalt 625 from the US (it was made in Italy) and had it sent by mail. Canada Customs dinged me $5 for brokerage plus the GST & PST. A delivery by private shipper would have had a much bigger brokerage fee (maybe $30) plus the taxes. There are NO duties on importing portable power tools to Canada because none are made here so there isn't a duty applied to protect manufacturers. Same applied to the digital camera I bought yesterday when I crossed the border for a few hours, and will apply to a metal lathe and milling machine I want to buy in a few months (I checked while paying the GST & PST on the camera). These guys sell the router you want (if I remember correctly and someone may have mentioned them already)) and will take your order by fax if you don't want to shop on line. Looks like they ship worldwide too!Take the plunge. No wait. You ruled out those routers already. ;)
Hello,
"These guys sell the router you want (if I remember correctly and someone may have mentioned them already)) and will take your order by fax if you don't want to shop on line. Looks like they ship worldwide too"
I assume you mean International Tools. They require you to fax in or mail in or telephone in your order and then send a cashiers check/ check or money order. They do not permit you to order online. That's kind of strange.
The 2008 Tool Guide Put the Triton Router at the top of their list. I think those above table adjusters are overrated. and I would prefer a router without a spindle lock. From what I've read .. The main complaint with spindle locks.. they wear out. Besides I feel safer using a 2 wrench system to change bits. At least you can be pretty darn sure the bit won't slip the collet. The Milwaukee can handle a 4" bit. Where as the Triton can only handle a 3 1/8th" bit. Never know when you might need that extra base space.
Wanda
Sorry Wanda. I forgot to add the link to my message.http://www.mytoolstore.com/milwauke/5625-20.htmlI just typed in Milwaukee in the search engine and it was at the top of the list. At $294.00 it looked like a fair price. After shipping, tax, brokerage, and a bit of exchange benefit you'll have it in hand for less than $400.00 before next weekend. Should have you swinging those "windmill bits" in the table Saturday afternoon.They also have the Makita you were looking at near the beginning of this thread for $227.50.;) Happy hunting.
Hi QCInspector,
Thanks for the link, I'll be ordering the router on Monday hopefully have it by next week sometime or maybe before next Friday. Don't tempt me... I only have enough cash saved up for the fixed based router. :) That Mikita is an excellent PLUNGE router. However, I think I'll be very happy with the Milwaukee fixed base router. It should mount perfectly beneath my router table. Now I'll be able to give those big bits a spin...
Is the panel bit with the backcutter worth the extra cost? I guess it really depends on the thickness of lumber you're using. whether you go with 5/8" or 3/4" thick panels.
Wanda
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