I’m looking at getting a shoulder plane – either a Stanley #93 or the Veritas. Can someone give me a comparison of the two?
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Replies
Can't tell you anything about the Stanley, but the Veritas medium shoulder plane is a thing of beauty. Got it for my birthday last month and I can't imagine being without it today.
Jim
I have a new-manufactured Stanley #90, and have looked in the store at the #93. My advice: don't bother with a Stanley, unless you can get a pre-WWII vintage plane. Current Stanley planes require a substantial amount of fettling that will yield a usable but mainly mediocre plane. (I have a couple of newly-manufactured Stanley planes: I'm not very happy with the quality of either of them or the amount of work it took just to get them in usable shape....)
No experience with the Veritas shoulder plane, but based on using a friend's Veritas LA jack plane, you should be very happy with it, if you decide to buy one. LV's other tools are also very nice and of high quality, if you don't already know this.
Also take a look at the LN and Clifton shoulder planes; both are very nice, well-made, and ready to use out of the box.
Tschüß!
Mit freundlichen holzbearbeitungischen Grüßen aus dem Land der Rio Grande!!
James
myoung,
Buy the Lie Nielsen. If you find you don't like it, they will take it back for about up to six months. Give them a call and they will give you details. Suppose you keep it longer than that. Say you keep it and use it for a year and a half, and you decide you don't want it any more. Sell it on EBAY for about 90% of what you bought it for. If you dont' believe me, check out the Lie Nielsen shoulder planes that have sold on EBAY in the last 90 days.
Just because of those facts alone, it's the only one to go with. Neither Veritas or Stanley can match that.
Have fun.
And remember how much you paid for this advice.
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Actually Lee Valley will do the same.
Alternatively, Woodcraft will take something back up to one year I do believe, at least at the store level. They retail both LN and Clifton.
Take care, Mike
who will keep his vintage Preston and Murray infill <g>
Mike,
I knew about Woodcraft,but I didn't know about Lee Valley. That's good to know. Thanks for passing it on.However, say you keep the tool a year and a half or more. Then if you have a Veritas, you are not going to do as well on EBAY as with a Lie Nielsen. I can't get over how much people pay for any LN tool on EBay. It is amazing. You can keep your LN plane as long as you want and probably get 80% of what you paid for it. Please note that I am not commenting on the relative quality of any of the brands, only the EBAY resale value of LN tools.Enjoy.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Hi Mel,
You are probably correct assuming the LV won't sell as well on ePay as the LN. It is crazy. I have seen decently kept, but definitely used, LNs sell for even a little more than new. Tis a crazy world.
Now, I realize this may not be a viable option for the OP. But I just received a shoulder plane in the mail from a person on another forum. It is a craftsman made, 1/2" sholder plane. It is a beauty in my eyes. Even nicer than my LN 1/2" infill shoulder plane in many ways.
Oh, it isn't as slick to look at. Definitely larger, which will be nice at times. Has a wonderful shape to it. An iron made from a file. The wedge is whittled form a piece of White Oak. There's a little damage where the back got tapped once too often, too hard. I will need to repair it, which won't be difficult. But a pretty creative soul designed and made a pretty nice shoulder plane in days gone by. I will use it with a sense of continuing in his steps.
Take care, Mike
New Stanley tool sjust don't have the same fit and finish as Veritas tools. You can probably make it work if cost is an issue.
The veritas medium should plane is a thing of beauty. To me it's one of those rare tools that just feels perfect, it just fits in the hand so well.
Lie Nielsen Medium shoulder plane is within the price range as well. Having used both Veritas is a 'better' plane (In my opinion). Don't take this as a knock to LN, I just really like the Veritas innovations on the shoulder plane. If you went with either, you'd be very happy.
I have the Veritas medium shoulder plane, and it's sweet. Good value, too. BTW, I've noticed that the Veritas planes sold on Ebay do as well as the Lie-Nielsens. Most of the time, they sell for more than you could buy them new. Really makes me wonder who's buying these things. Tom
BTW, I've noticed that the Veritas planes sold on Ebay do as well as the Lie-Nielsens. Most of the time, they sell for more than you could buy them new. Really makes me wonder who's buying these things.
Probably mostly idiots who didn't bother to check the brand-new price before bidding.
I've been on Ebay since 1996, and I've seen this phenomenon over and over. Sometimes you can get some great deals on stuff (especially if it's obscure and low-demand). But many times people get into idiotic bidding wars over things and don't even realize they could get a brand new one for only slightly more, or sometimes less, because they overbid on impulse.
Rule of thumb: ALWAYS know what the item you're bidding on is really worth before you bid. If it's rare and out-of-production, then of course the value is whatever the highest bidder is willing to pay. But for used versions of currently-manufactured items, be sure to look up the current street price.
Don't get me started on a discussion about all the other problems with Ebay these days....
With regard to folks bidding too much for a LN or Veritas plane--When the planes sell for less, you may think you've got a deal or saved a few bucks until you factor in $15-20 shipping that some folks charge. You really need to be discriminating when you bid and buy. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
Ah, I've been looking at shoulder planes for a year now and lusting for a Veritas medium shoulder plane for 2 months. I will have one someday - perhaps at Christmas? I'll have to keep circling the little dear in my catalog and leaving it casually about.
Mike D
The only reason that might make sense for the prices of the LN and LV planes on e-bay would be over seas buyer in countrys with a value added tax when they purchase locally. Either that or auction fever.Have fun.Troy
I'm looking at getting a shoulder plane - either a Stanley #93 or the Veritas. Can someone give me a comparison of the two?
That may be easily done if you are looking at 3/4" wide shoulder planes, the more popular choice in shoulder plane size. However you may be meaning/wanting something larger. It is not clear from what you ask since the Stanley #93 is 1" wide. Do you really mean the #92?
Go here for my review of the Veritas Medium:
http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/dCohen/LVShoulder/index.asp
The Veritas Medium is contrasted with two other 3/4" wide shoulder planes, a vintage Stanley #92 and the HNT Gordon 3/4", both of which I have owned and used for a number of years. I have not used the LN so cannot comment on that.
In a nutshell, the Veritas is machined to close tolerances, has some advanced features, has easily repeatable settings, and is wonderfully comfortable to use. The Stanley works well once set up but is a pain to adjust or attempt repeatable settings. It has the smallest footprint of the three. The HNT Gordon wins the prize for being the best looking (just damed sexy if you want my opinion!), works very well, is comfortable to hold, but lacks the repeatability of the Veritas.
Regards from Perth
Derek
There is some information about the Veritas shoulder plane on the FWW website. Some general information at:
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ToolGuide/ToolGuideProduct.aspx?id=5902&tab=_related
And a review of several shoulder planes (including Veritas) here:
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ToolGuide/ToolGuidePDF.aspx?id=2922
--Whit
Nobody on this forum has mentioned the Clifton. About 5 yrs ago, I went to Woodcraft with the intent ot buy the LN and found the Clifton 3 in 1 shoulder plane. It was smaller than the LN (back then they only had the large one available) but still had a great heft to it. The nose is removale, and there are both large and small noses included, so you can convert it to a bull nose plane if you wich.
I have used this plane to trim countless tennons, clean up rabbets, and many other tasks. I have no regrets, and the thing sings. I have about 6 other LN pieces, and I think they are fantastic tools, but I wouldn't trade my Clifton.
Peter
www.jpswoodworking.com
Well, I mentioned Clifton and I believe another did <g>.
The Cliftons can be a mixed bag. Some are less finished than others and so be sure to buy one in person or from a dealer which will ensure ease of return and even checking before shipping.
Both the Clifton and LN are based upon the Preston, which were wonderfully made tools. A vintage one is often well worth seeking out for those inclined to do so.
I now have three shoulder planes--and I don't use them ever for shoulders and there are other options for the cheeks.
But I did use them at one time and I believe a shoulder plane is one of those tools one should get as good of one as they can comfortably afford. Having square sides/bottom and ergonomics in use are both a prime consideration.
For cheeks, wider is better. For the shoulders themselves, weight is nice as it helps to maintain momentum on the short strokes required.
Take care, Mike
This is all helpful info, folks. Thanks to All. I'm probably going to get a 3/4 plane. I didn't mention that before. How about the Stanley #80 cabinet scraper? Are the pre ww2 models superior to new ones?
Edited 10/21/2006 6:24 pm ET by myoung
The #80 is such a simple tool--and a good one--that other than finding one cracked, it would be fine no matter what vintage. However, I have no idea what the cost of one is these days.
When I wanted to get another for the shop, I couldn't find a vintage one right then and so bought the Veritas. I think it's about $50 these days. A vintage one should be less when available.
Take care, Mike
M.Y. the 80's are really simple tools and I think still may be in stock if not in production for not a lot of bucks. I have a Stanley and a Millers Falls set up all the time for quickee things (better than burning your thumbs) but for bigger jobs ( dressing a bench top, etc.) I use the LV copy of the improved Stanley. It has a bigger footprint and longer toe and is a joy to use. All of this looks like more work but it's better than sanding, Pat
Gad, in addition to a Stanley #80, I have the dreaded Kunz version. And you know what, I think it works better than the Stanley. Or at least as well. This is not a design one can easily get wrong. If it were not for the bright green of the Kunz and, as a result, my need to wear sunglasses each time it comes out of hiding, I would use it more than the Stanley!
Regards from Perth
Derek
dc, this is scary. I am in the process this afternoon of clearing out a lady friends late husbands turning shop and what do I find in a drawer???? a Kunz #80 and 4 shaves. all requiring sunglasses. what a color! The K 80 looks a little lighter than my oldies.
What's your take on the shaves? I have a wall full of old S/MF even a few cigar style as well as a dozen woodies of all types (chair devils, scorp types etc.) they are mine to have or sell for her. Are they of special merit or should I pass ?
My bigger problem is his Harrison union graduate lathe with a swan neck bed and a replacement @6' cast iron bed with cast iron pedestal, powered with a 220v. 1 1/2 hp. dayton motor. It's hard to find a turner who could use or afford it at $2,000.
All the best, Paddy
Pat, I've been looking for a cigar shave or two for a while now. If you have pics, and they are indecent shape, I may well be real interested. Please contact me off-line.
Thanks.Tschüß!
Mit freundlichen holzbearbeitungischen Grüßen aus dem Land der Rio Grande!!
James
myoung,
I bought the Veritas once but the sides weren't perpendicular to the sole. I'm sure it was probably a fluke (I buy lots of stuff from them and this is the only thing I ever bought with an issue). I sent it back without any hassle.
Despite my isolated experience with my particular plane, I'd recommend the Veritas over the Stanley.
Matt
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