Who makes the best 1.5 H dust collector
blade004
| Posted in Power Tools and Machinery on
I am currently in the market for a basic dust collector. I have a small shop (third stall in my garage). I have read a number of comments in Knots and <!—-><!—-><!—->Taunton <!—-><!—->’s 2007 Tool Guide. I am looking for real user feedback. I am considering the “top rated” Penn State 1.5 HP model DC2V2 for $329.00, Penn State 2HP model DC2000B (220V) for $259.00, Delta 1.5 HP model 50-850 for $330.00, and the Jet 1.5 HP model DC-1100A for $325.00. Any comments will be appreciated.
Replies
I have a Jet 1.5 HP and am very happy with it. I insisted on waiting until I got one with the pleated filter (canister filter) rather than a bag though. If you can afford it, go for it.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Dear Blade,
It may blow the budget, but check out: http://www.oneida-air.com/
Best,
John
http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/
http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/Product_Comparisons.htm
Please don't make a decision until you have fully explored this site.
And this one
http://billpentz.com//woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm
Rich
I have a Jet 1100, which I bought maybe 8-10 years ago.
Don't know if it's the best, but it does the job for me, even though it is not the canister model.
However, from what I have learned here and elsewhere over the years, if I were buying now, I would most likely go for one of the Oneida cyclone units.
********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
I am pleased with my Jet 1100. I have the cannister filter on the top, not the bag. It keeps up with the 8" jointer when facing 6-8" boards, although I've never tried to cut more than a 16th deep. There're always some shavings left in the planer, but I believe that's the nature of the planer. The bandsaw is generally pretty clean. The tablesaw likes to hoard wood dust far from the discharge, but the area around the discharge stays pretty clean. There's some dust around the drum sander, but not much. I attach the various machines through 4" flex hose (not an ideal setup). I run each of two hoses to a blast gate fitting, then to a Y-fitting into a trash can with a cyclone lid. The 4" discharge from the can goes to the Jet 1100. For the small power sanders, drill press, and router, I can step the hose down to smaller sizes with some fittings, and it is just fair--there's way too much friction in the system, so I usually let the shop vac handle those jobs.
The noise from the machine is about what I would expect for the work it has to do. I wear ear protection in the shop, so it becomes part of the background. Changing the lower bag is not painful, and occasionally I pull the big filter and take it outside for a thorough cleaning with a bit of compressed air.
I switched the beast over to run on 220 volt. I just followed the instructions, probably less than 30 minutes total (not counting time to buy plug end).
HTH
I bought this at harbor freight and it works great:http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=45378
Dear Mo,
I clicked on the link........ 30 MICRON FILTRATION!!!! That is almost criminal. If you haven't already, you should look into 5 Micron filter bags. The amount of dust that a 30 Micron system spews is significant and it is the fine stuff that it spits out. That is the dangerous stuff. Be careful!Best,John
30 microns ain't great, unless you have a good air cleaner unit in the shop as well.
When I bought, I was interested in something that could move sawdust, I bought an air filtration unit to handle the fine particles.But please look at the other dust collectors mentioned in this thread and you will find that some of them also only filter to 30 microns, namely the Jets and Deltas.Lets' do the math Jet DC-1100A 1-1/2 HP 1100 CFM down to 30 microns = $425 or the Delta 50-850 115 Volt, 1-1/2 Horsepower 1200 CFM down to 30 microns = $328, or the Harbor Freight 2 Hp 1600 CFM down to 30 microns = $180.I might not be the brightest of the bunch, but that seems like a clear advantage to me. They are all made in the Asian-Pacific rim, they are all the same basic design, and they all filter down to the same level.
Clearly, more CFM and a lower price speaks to the savvy buyer, no?From what I have seen, the JDS and the Penn State units are the ones to buy for the discriminating buyer (money no obstacle).I agree with you, however, 30 microns is not good for the lungs....I am currently reworking my shop and plan to upgrade my collection bags to a lower micron setup.erik.
"Lets' do the math Jet DC-1100A 1-1/2 HP 1100 CFM down to 30 microns = $425 or the Delta 50-850 115 Volt, 1-1/2 Horsepower 1200 CFM down to 30 microns = $328, or the Harbor Freight 2 Hp 1600 CFM down to 30 microns = $180.
I might not be the brightest of the bunch, but that seems like a clear advantage to me. They are all made in the Asian-Pacific rim, they are all the same basic design, and they all filter down to the same level.Clearly, more CFM and a lower price speaks to the savvy buyer, no?"
You have to be careful about published performance for these cheap little DC's. I don't know where HF gets 1600 CFM, but I just measured flow in mine with the top bag removed and 6' of 5" test duct with bellmouth entry, and got a little less than 1000 CFM. That's in a totally useless configuration, of course, since there was no top bag, and it was sucking through a straight run of 5" duct. I don't recall what it measured with the top bag on it (a 1 micron oversized aftermarket, well seasoned, with plastic on the bottom), but it was a lot less. And that's still with a 6' test duct and favorable entry. Put some 4" flex with corrugated interior, connected to the typical plastic adapter, and it will move quite a bit less air. It's shameful that manufacturers publish these kinds of grossly exaggerated flow numbers.Be seeing you...
I'm not sure what the "takeaway" was from your post.
I don't want this to get personal, but your tests don't seem to be too scientific.
And please don't think I am defending HF...but from what I have seen, Delta and Jet aren't much different in design or fit and finish!
The takeaway was supposed to be that the advertised numbers for these DC's are grossly exaggerated. The HFDC has the smallest impeller (mine measures 9.85" dia), but the highest claimed flow rate. Nothing even remotely close to the published flow rate was achievable, even when stripped down to remove back pressure, which has just as much negative effect as ducting restrictions, and optimize the inlet restrictions while leaving enough straight-line duct for the air stream to settle for measurement purposes.
Flow testing followed the AMCA procedures initially (per publication #210, but without flow straightening vanes), at least until I satisfied myself that traverse readings (air speed measurements in small increments across the duct) correlated well enough with 90% of centerline air speed to not bother with such detail in the future (a method recommend by Dwyer for non-critical testing). Equipment used included a Dwyer calibrated pitot tube and several Magnehelic differential pressure gauges, primarily 0-3" WC for dynamic pressure, and 0-8" for max static pressure (which topped out at about 7" for the HFDC).
I wasn't trying to be too scientific about it, though the methods I used for air speed measurement actually were consistant with industry standards, and my results should be accurate to within about 5% of what a more careful test would produce. I was in the process of emptying the bag, and thought it would be interesting to see just how much air it could flow in the very least restricted conditon I could put it in without removing the rectangular-to-round outlet adapter and flex hose on the blower housing.
While the blowers look similar, the impellers are not. The HFDC uses a forward-curved radial impeller, and a rather small one at that, while the others use either radial or back-inclined or backward-curved radial impellers of larger diameter and generally higher efficiency than the forward-curved. I read someplace that the Jet units use a particularly efficient blower wheel, but I don't know that for fact.
I'm not knocking the HFDC - mine does ok for what it is - but I was just pointing out that even when measured the way Sears reports shop vac motor hp (loaded to where it will burn up in seconds, which is also an impossible scenario for a vacuum), it couldn't come anywhere near the advertised flow rate. It widely understood that they all exaggerate performance that way, and I'm just tossing in some actual best-case flow measurements to illustrate the point.Be seeing you...
Once again.
http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/
http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/Product_Comparisons.htm
http://billpentz.com//woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm
Rich
"30 microns ain't great, unless you have a good air cleaner unit in the shop as well."
I wouldn't use a 30-micron collector, no matter how good my air cleaner was. It's bad enough having that most-dangerous stuff coming out of the machine (with no dust collector). It'd be awful having it all collected in one place and then blasted out at head height, in all directions, through the filter bags.
The canister filters like my collect down to 2 microns, but I still use an air cleaner.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I think the point is being missed, as usual.
You can spend upwards of $500 on the Jet and Delta units, yet they are no better than the Harbor Freight model.
Why would one spend $300 more for a dust collector that performs at the same level?
"You can spend upwards of $500 on the Jet and Delta units, yet they are no better than the Harbor Freight model."
Huh? What part of this phrase didn't you get? - "The canister filters like my [mine] collect down to 2 microns...." That and the ease of emptying a plastic bag (bottom) rather than a dust-spewing cloth bag are easily worth the extra $$ (although I only paid $325 for my canister collector....thank you Brian). Yes, I take the "2 microns" with a grain of salt, but even with that, it's a he|| of alot better than 30.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I started out with a single-machine DC (a 3/4hp Delta unit), upgraded to the Jet 1200, and finally built a custom whole-shop solution with Oneida-air's help using the blower and motor from the Jet. In doing my research for this I found that there is a huge difference in static pressure based on the design of the blower/impellers. There are serveral companies who sell much higher efficiciency blades than the factory ones. Also, just because the DC collects everything down to a gnat's eyebrow doesn't mean you were able to capture it all at the tool source. If you have the space, go for a cyclone system. Emptying the big can of large stuff doesn't emit the dangerous super-fine dust that a single/dual bag system does when things are full. I empty my fine-dust containers once every three years and they don't need it then. I have heard that recent Grizzly units and Penn-State units are now publishing their static pressure charts. If you are putting in a stationary/piped system, seriously consider using Oneida-air. Their design service and their knowledge is tops in my book. If not, try to get the static pressure charts for the unit you are considering. That allows you a much better comparison than just CFM.
Bill in N. CA
Ok, Just buy the cheap HF and put an aftermarket cannister filter on it - still cheaper than buying the Jet or Delta and upgrading to the canister.
Now a question, is the HF with the 30 micron bag better or worse than just using a shop Vac with its collection bag?
" There'll be no living with her now" - Captain Jack Sparrow
"...is the HF with the 30 micron bag better or worse than just using a shop Vac with its collection bag?" Probably better at collecting more shavings and keeping large dust particles out of the air. Shop vac just can't move enough air, especially for a table saw or planer. But seems like you'd (editorial "you") end up wearing a respirator all the time if you wanted your lungs to survive over the long haul. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I agree, the issue I was raising , is if all you have is the shop vac and funds are limited, but you want to get a DC and cannot afford the big names, a HF and when able - upgraded to a pleated cannister filter is a possible route. If it means the HF now or a jet/grizzley 2 years down the road, I would go with the HF.
" There'll be no living with her now" - Captain Jack Sparrow
Gotcha. [as in "I understand" not the other gotcha ;-)
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 10/5/2006 1:53 pm by forestgirl
OMG!!!
If you want a solid recomendation, I strongly suggest that you take a serious look at the Oneida 1.5 hp cyclone. Yes, it does cost more than all of the Tiawanese DC's that are sold by Delta, Penn State, HF, etc.. But what you get for the money is the truth, period. Oneida Air doesn't advertise using high CFM claims achieved by using questionable testing practices. They provide a performance chart that shows actual CFM vs. static pressure ( airflow resistance ). I think that all of Oneida Air's DC systems are rated for 1 micron filtration. I can speak from extended experience that OA's DC systems perform as advertised. And even after all of that, Oneida Air DC are an American made product by a company that provides exceptional customer service and support. I have worked around a few of the other imported DC's in my buddies shops, there is no comparison between those and the Oneida.
Aren't your lungs and health worth the extra money?
I have been doing some research on dust collectors for my shop. Actually dust in the range of .3 to 5 microns is the most damaging to the lungs. The Oneida and Grizzly that I am considering use .2 to 2 micron filters. I am leaning toward the Grizzly for several reasons. One thing I really like about the Grizzly is that it uses a plastic bag on the end of the filter to collect the dust, when you see that it needs emptying you just discard the bag. With the Oneida you have a pan full of very fine dust to discard, not very good for your lungs IMHO. Also, with the Grizzly you have a brush inside the filter that is used for cleaning, with the Oneida you use compressed air. Just what I want to do is blow very fine dust all over and possibly damage the filter with the compressed air.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
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