The Woodworking Show is coming to my neck of the woods and I want to stock up on paper. If we narrow it down to say 150 to 220 grit Aluminum Oxide 5″ disks for sanding bare, flat Cherry wood on a PC333 sander, who makes your favorite paper?
Keef
p.s. Do you have a preference for heavy weight or light weight for sanding flat panels and small boxes, small case goods and the like? Stearated or not? My finishes is usually a wipe on varnish.
Replies
I haven't tried every brand out there but I've used quite a few. I like the Norton 3X. It does last a long time and won't load up. I just sanded out some old paint and although some built up on the sanding block, I could knock it right off and keep going. I like to use as fine a grit as I can, rather than work through several grits. I just did an entire cabinet with one third of a sheet of 220 and I could do more. The paper is light weight and flexible but strong. The heavier papers are difficult to use on things that aren't flat. My Fein sander came with Klingspore and that doesn't last at all. The stiff paper gets beat up on the edges easily. On my belt sanders, I use the Norton blue belts. They don't seem to stretch and track nicely. I can use the rubber cleaner and they come right back. The 3X is more expensive but I think it's well worth it, especially the 220. I also use it on my RO sander. When I used the adhesive backed discs, I could buy large rolls from a supplier that specialized in auto paints. Now I prefer the hook and loop. You can easily change discs without ruining them.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Ditto the Norton 3X but The Mirka bulldog gold not bad either. But I really like the Mirka Abranet 80-600 grits.Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Ditto the Mirka Abranet!! It has a very few, very minor weaknesses compared to paper-backed sandpaper. But even so I absolutely love the stuff and very, very rarily use conventional sandpaper any more with my 6" RO sander. Anything #320 and above I use nothing but Abranet. Below that I use Abranet most of the time but not always - depends on what I'm sanding.
I've got a buddy who is a paint/materials salesman catering to the automotive refinish industry, which of course does huge amounts of sanding when they fix your fender-bender. He tells me that Mirka has absolutely taken his industry by storm. Abranet in particular is extremely popular as well as the conceptually similar Abralon (used for polishing). I've been told that Abralon is popular for polishing wood finishes too.
Thanks for the info. I went to the mirka site where they have a pretty interesting animation: http://www.mirka.com/abranet . Maybe I will get some of each and try 'em side by side. Abranet is the most expensive per "disk", Norton a close second.
Preferences so far :
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3x<!----><!---->
mirka bulldog<!----><!---->
abranet<!----><!---->
Klingspor<!----><!---->
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1<!----><!---->
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Total<!----><!---->
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Cost/ disk<!----><!---->
0.70<!----><!---->
0.34<!----><!---->
0.87<!----><!---->
0.40<!----><!---->
Edited 2/1/2007 12:43 am ET by Keef
Edited 2/1/2007 12:43 am ET by Keef
I prefer mirka bulldog up to 320.A bad day woodworking is better than a good day working -- yes, I'm retired!
Only 8 total "votes" as the discussion turned to "how to glue a belt back together":
Norton 3X
Mirka Bulldog
Abranet
Klingspore
3
2
2
1
KB
Yes, Abranet is more expensive per disc. But each disc cuts significantly more area before wearing out. So that needs to be taken into consideration since it directly affects the total cost to sand a given piece of whatever it is being sanded.
I haven't done a side-by-side comparison with a high end paper-backed disc, but I did do a comparison with Crystal Bay sandpaper which is a lower-end product of 3M, and the Abranet discs cut about 3x the area that Crystal Bay cut before needing to be replaced. This was with 6" 320 grit discs and sanding Cherry.
The total cost between Abranet and it's top competitors is probably pretty close to equal. Even so, I prefer it.
There are really only two things that I don't like about Abranet. 1. it doesn't work as well on metal. There it doesn't last any longer and that makes it a more expensive propostion for that kind of application. 2. At speed the edges are like a saw. I've learned to be careful when sanding in a corner not to bump the adjoining piece of wood as it will score it very quickly. It is for these two situations that I continue to stock Crystal Bay even though I rarily use it even on metal.
Keek, Klingspor
If you want to buy in quantity, why not mail order? In my case (I use orbital sanders with plain backings), 50-sheet packages are handy & economical. I usually bought from a place in Texas (Frisco, I believe.) which is now part of Amazon (Their stuff generally comes from Canada and is probably made by Carborundum or Norton.) or A&H Abrasives (associated with WW Supply). I have tried other abrasives, but I always come back to silicon carbide no-load. I can clean it many times with one of those crepe rubber blocks.
Some lessons learned: 1) Don't buy belts in quantity. In time the joints fail voluntarily. 2) Self-adhesive stuff either won't stick or peels off in little pieces most of the time. That may be a time-related feature also. I have had a good piece of luck, however, with Porter Cable self-adhesive discs made in Finland. I hope it lasts. 3) I don't get the swirl marks that users of random orbit sanders constantly complain about here on Knots.
Cadiddlehopper
Keef: I've been using the 3X stuff, it seems to last and shake free of those little, wa-da-ya call them, clumps? I'd like to ask the group: what is the advantage of the more expensive cloth backed sheets? Also thanks to Canddiehopper for the tip on long term storage of sanding belts! When I got started I bought several boxes of belts, haven't gone through all of them yet.
Duke
"... Buy the best and only cry once.........
"thanks to Canddiehopper"Duke: Old belts will probably separate at the joint when you first crank up your sander. If the break is pretty neat, you may be able to reglue it. I have done so with polyurethane glue. It makes quite a mess when it expands and you have to clamp it between sheets of polyethylene. The joint needs to be coated sparingly. I may try contact cement in the future. Construction adhesive may work, but once a tube is opened, it sets all the way through. Wasteful! Good luck!Cadiddlehopper
My just turned 81 year old cabinet maker neighbor uses super glue when belts separate at the seam. I didn't notice the viscosity. I hope this helps.Ron
Ron: Thanxx!! for the info. I gave that some thought, but it is not always around my shop. The gel type probably works well but might be a costly repair. A wide belt can have a lot of area. It should be fast. A description of his technique would probably be interesting. No matter whether using super glue or polyurethane, care must be taken not to glue that which you don't want to glue! I always keep a suitable solvent for super glue around. I got glued to a container once when it leaked unnoticed onto my fingers. I really should use gloves.Cadiddlehopper
I'll drop in on him and seek the answer............
Ron
I haven't tried super glue for belts, but it seems like it would be too "brittle" to me.Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
I stopped by Peter my neighborhood cabinet maker yesterday. I asked him which super glue he used? "The one that's open" he pointed to a small shelf, several brands and viscosaties.Just use a little and clamp it for 5 minutes. Here, I'll show you..........he did it with thin glue. installed it and sanded hard for at least a minute. Now you try, I was in a suit so I declined.My observation was he made a small bead at the forward edge of the seam. wiped off any squeeze out so it wouldn't get carried onto the work surface. Ron
Ron & Bruce,Thanxx!!, Ron. There are flexible epoxies, Bruce. I used some for encapsulation years ago. But it is a rare item in my shop. I do have some at present. If a belt fails I will definitely try it.Cadiddlehopper
Rocklers sells a flexible super glue. Not sure how well it works, though.
Thanxx!! But, per previous posting, it doesn't need to be flexible. Saving a belt could be more expensive than it is worth. It may make better economic sense to use what is on hand if you must save one, just like his neighbor did. I had several at one time and will probably have several more soon, so I may order from Rockler along with other items.Cadiddlehopper
Just cause the old guy does it doesn't mean it's a good idea.I can't imagine it would be a good idea. Ofcourse I've been wrong before. I'm sure someone will tell me otherwise; someday.
Edited 2/18/2007 5:22 pm ET by amazon
You might be right but it was glued in the first place. He turned 81 in January, he has enough equipment for 4-5 men. But he prefers to work alone for the last 25 years. Six days a week, his wife won't let him go in on Sunday. I saw him yesterday. He said if he dies before me, I can have the several large rosewood boards and all the other wide beautiful "stuff" I can wait!Ron
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