Replies

1. 
   Mike_Maines | Oct 26, 2001 02:17pm | #1

   *
   Brian, I learned that lesson the same (expensive) way. The plans should be yours until they give you a deposit to begin the project. It's up to you to make sure this happens. One technique that works well is to present the clients with the drawings and the quotation, let them look both over, and if they don't write you a check you take the plans back. It's not their responsibility to watch your back side, it's your own.

   P.S. Autocad gets easier the more you use it, but unless you plan on making several revisions, I find hand-drawing to be faster and perfectly adequate.

1. 
   Sgian_Dubh | Oct 26, 2001 04:27pm | #2

   *Brian, My working drawings and any plans I put together belong to me. I copyright them if the mood takes me. Early in the design process I knock out a concept sketch for a potential client. This I give to the client with my estimate. There is no detail in a concept sketch, not enough anyway to know what I'm specifying in terms of materials or the construction, etc., techniques to be used. I don't do working drawings unless the client commissions me to make the piece(s). If they are asking for these drawings, it suggests they are planning to use them to get competitive bids. At a minimum that comes across as insensitive bad manners on their part, and at worst it comes across as unscrupulous, underhand, and dishonest. In my case, as I don't prepare working drawings until commissioned, I guess they could pay me to prepare some. In your case, 20 hrs. X let's say $50 hr. looks like $1,000 to me. ;-) Slainte, RJ.

1. 
   Robert_Weiner | Oct 26, 2001 08:12pm | #3

   *If they are using your artwork, they need to pay for it; either in the price of the piece or the just your price for drawing. I would drop by to see if they are planning on having the piece built. If they are using your artwork to spec out for another shop, then they need to pay up or deal with your lawyer. If they are not, then they need to return your drawings.Mike and RJ hit this one on the head... show them the picture of how handsome the piece will be, but walk out of the room with your drawings unless you get the check.I beleive that the law on artwork is pretty clear: you own all the artwork you create until someone pays for it. Unauthorized use of that artwork (passing on to another shop, even if to just give them the ideas) is illegal. SHGLaw could make this point better.Good luck and let us know how you make out.Peace.-Rob

1. 
   Mark_Levin | Oct 27, 2001 02:18am | #4

   *Brian,I suggest you get a Preliminary Design Agreement written up by a lawyer. It will remove the issues you are dealing with now. I use one and it clearly states the fees for the design process, the fact that I own and retain copyright over all drawings, sketches models and marquetes. It also clearly states the fee is for my time only and is non-refundable and will not be credited towards the purchase of the original piece.(though I sometimes use this as a negotiation tool to speed up their decision to commission me)I bring copies of all sketches and/or digital photos of my models so if they want to keep a copy they can, but on the copy of the sketch and/or the photo I have the following in big red outline letters going across the page diagonally "Copyright Mark Levin 2001." I only leave a copy if I feel they are truly serious and of course if they give me a deposit and sign all the paperwork. I've never had anyone shop me or take my drawings to another woodworker. I also retain all rights to the orignal work that I make for them which is clearly stated in the Purchase Agreement Contract. My clients cannot even take a photograph of my work that they own without my written permission let alone even think about having it reproduced by someone else.Part of the Purchase Agreement Contract is a copy of a Change of Work Order Agremeent that they must sign agreeing that they have read this copy and understand any and all changes from the original Purchase Agrement will cost them a set amount above and beyound the cost for the requested change. In fifteen years of business I only had to enforce the Change of Work Order once. I would have overlooked the upcharge but they were so nasty about it I held their feet to the fire and all the written agreements.I am a true believer in contracts. I have several contracts, one for end users, one for architects, one for interior designers, etc, but they all get the same Preliminary Design Agreement to sign before I ever put pencil to paper.I highly recommend the book by Tad Crawford:BUSINESS AND LEGAL FORMS FOR CRAFTS. ISBN: 1880559870. It comes with a CD-ROM of all the contracts he discusses so you don't have to retype the forms. For some of my contracts I started with his forms(they are not copyrighted and he encourages you to use his contracts-hence the CD-ROM)I make all the changes and address all the added issues and then give it to my lawyer rather than having the lawyer start from scratch. To save clerical billing from your lawyer put your draft in a .txt or word.doc format on a zip disk or floppy so the typist doesn't have to retype the whole thing. This will save you hundreds of dollars in legal fees.Good luck,Mark Levinwww.marklevin.com

1. 
   Brian_T | Oct 28, 2001 02:00am | #5

   *I want to thank you all for helping me out with this. I have always been hesitant to request payment up front for the design drawings for fear of scaring the client off before having the chance to demonstrate my abilities. This is the first time I've run into this type of problem with a client. I will try to incorporate some of the methods you have suggested and will change the way I've presented the drawings. I usually fax everything, if possible, since it is easier and less time consuming but its not worth it if I lose control of how they are used. I really like Mark Levin's method of stating the copyright across each page. I'll let you know how it goes.

2. 
   Tom_Watson | Nov 29, 2001 01:58am | #6

   *All of your drawings enjoy the protection of copyright at the time of completion. A strongly worded letter from your attorney will do wonders.In future; note on your drawings that they are copyrighted material and owned solely by you, and may not be used for any purpose, including bidding by others.