Hi!
As a novice woodworker (furniture making) a particular challenge of mine is perhaps a common one; i’m having trouble getting the good ol’ razor sharp edge. One thing is for sure, I never get a bur, which suggests to me that perhaps my blades aren’t sharp enough!? I’m also very aware that sharpening takes me far too long.
My current process:
300 grit diamond stone, 1000 grit diamond stone, followed bu=y polishing compound on a wooden strop (back of the chisel) and a leather strop (the bevel). My initial suspicion was that perhaps I need a finer stone? I feel the absence of a finer stone after the 1000 grit may explain why my edge doesn’t bur, as well as why a scratch-less mirror finish is a big ask (I achieve a reasonable mirror finish, to what i’d describe as lightly scratched chrome. To go further than this and we’re heading past the hour mark).
FYI the reason I chose this particular process is because I already had the diamond stones when I started woodworking. After checking out some methods online, I found some woodworkers that apparently get a razor sharp edge using the exact same process … So perhaps it is in fact my own technique that is the cause of my decent into madness?
Thanks in advance for your expertise!
Luke
Replies
Well, you have identified the issue - never go to the next grit until you get a burr. The burr depends on the bevel being honed all the way to the backside, so you have to start there.
The burr has nothing to do with how high the grit is, only whether you have removed enough metal from the bevel side, as I just mentioned.
1000 is not high enough to really achieve the edge you need. You will get all kinds of opinions I will describe my process and what has worked for me 35 years:
I start with hollow grinding the bevel. I usually need to regrind about every 10 or so rehones. Of course this requires a bench grinder.
The burr is removed before proceeding.
1. 600 or 800 diamond plate (depending on how long I let the edge go)
2. 1250 diamond
3. 4000 water stone (I often skip from 1250 to 8000)
4. 8000 water stone
5. 12000 water stone (not always, especially when I need the most sharp iron)
Stropping on leather with green compound optional.
To give an idea, I have actually timed myself on a plane or chisel I am back to work in under 3 minutes.
I suggest you re-evaluate your stones. I good addition would be the Norton dual 4000/8000 water stone. Diamond stones are fine, but I like water stones for the higher grits. It seems they are quicker, the only drawback being you have to flatten them prior to every use. Not a big deal.
I also suggest you look at the bevel angles and maybe look into a honing jig, just to get you started. Once you get the edge you're looking for, I highly recommend training yourself to freehand sharpen.
Good luck and keep in mind sharpening seems to be one of those subjects highly debated by ww'ers. But if you ignore them and do what I said, you'll be fine LOL!!!
If you don't turn a burr, you haven't gone all the way to the edge. Don't stop working the bevel until you have a burr all the way across.
What brand diamond stones do you use? Every manufacturer has their own measurement of grit, mesh, etc. Microns are the best comparative measurement, since its an actual scientific measure.
Honing guides help a lot. Eclipse jigs are cheap. Get the Lie Nielsen if you can afford it.
I use 600 mesh DMT stone, 1200 mesh, 8000 mesh, and ultra fine ceramic. I skip the 600 mesh if the edge is in decent shape. If I'm resurrecting a long dead chisel, ill grind on a 200 mesh diamond stone. I don't use a powered grinder on chisels or plane blades, only turning tools. I use a leather strop on carving tools, but it does me more harm than good on chisels or planes.
I support all that was written above, I use oil stones, a medium Norton after the initial grind followed by a white hard Arkansas and sometimes followed by a black Arkansas, then the leather strop with Tripoli.
If you're not producing a burr then you're essentially still grinding and thinning the tool. Stay on your coarsest abrasive until you have a burr all the way across then move up to finer media. Make sure you aren't rocking the tool or cutter and rounding the end. If you do this, you'll never get all the way to the edge.
Don’t bother to try and sharpen anything unless you have a flat polished tool back. (I assume you are referring to chisels and plane blades). I used to use a grinder, 800, 1200, and 6000 Japanese waterstones. Grind the primary (25 degrees) on the grinder and then freehand the secondary with a couple of swipes on the 800, then 1200 and finally a number of passes on 6000 (don’t forget the tool back). I only considered my tools sharp when I could shave hair from the back of my hand. Now I cheat.
I use a Worksharp 3000. I use 120 grit to maintain my primary bevel. Once that is restored, a handful of swipes on a 6000 stone followed by back cleanup give me a great edge. Very little time and it is almost impossible to burn a tool.
My brother gave me the Veritas jigs. Being a purist I resisted, but I can’t argue with the results.
I use diamond stones because they are super convenient and give great results. Water stones require constant flattening, plus storage in a water bath or, if stored dry, 15 minutes of soaking prior to use. Too much trouble for me. Also get a honing jig. This will bring repeatable results. Veritas makes a good one, plus many others. I don't consider myself a beginner woodworker but I still struggle to sharpen a chisel freehand. Regarding the process of sharpening, look up Paul Sellers and his sharpening video. PS is a great teacher and is the absolute definition of practicality. He won't send you chasing a 15,000 grit stone to achieve surgical instrument sharpness. Rob Cosman also has his version of sharpening, but he goes to great length with extremely fine stones. In my opinion working twice as long for a 5% better edge isn't worth it. All that said, find a method that works for you, your budget and space.
Put the 300 grit diamond stone in a drawer somewhere and don't let it touch your tools unless you're restoring a damaged blade or seriously reshaping a bevel.
300 grit diamond plates remove a lot of steel and leave deep scratches. It's difficult to polish those scratches away completely and is probably why your edge looks like "scratched chrome" when you're done sharpening.
I primarily use Shaptons because they don't need to be soaked. I begin with 1000, then 5000, and finally I polish to a mirror finish with 8000. I'll often strop an edge while I'm working to extend the time between sharpenings.
As others mention, each grind or hone on different grades of sharpening medium need to get to the edge (i.e. create a wire edge).
Rough diamond (as rough as 140) to shape bevels and flatten wonky blade-backs. This rather than use of a a grinding wheel. This is the only significant time taker, especially if a blade back needs a serious flattening.
But use the Charlesworth ruler trick (look it up) with plane blade backs to greatly reduce the back-flattening grinding needs.
Some blades come with genuinely flat and polished backs (e.g. Veritas and LN) which saves a ton of time. The bevels too are well-made and need only a micro-bevel. Unless damaged, there should not be a need to regrind them for a long, long time.
Micro-bevels also save a lot of time that some used to spend grinding and polishing a whole blade bevel - a process which also wastes a lot of metal.
Once ground to shape and back-flattened (or with a high-quality new blade) 400-1200 diamond to get rid of grinding scratches (if any). Start here to get otherwise OK blades de-scratched if the manufacturer's process has left scratches. Or to make the initial micro-bevel.
3M scary-sharp "papers" on float glass after that: dragging the blade (no pushing) held in a honing guide (I like Veritas Mk II with appropriate gripper part). I go through 3 or 4 progressively finer grades from 2,000 to about 8,000- 10,000, removing the wire only after the last & finest. It only takes 6-10 drags per grade, on a line of 3M strips stuck on a single sheet of float glass.
Honing on leather only as a means to quickly improve a blade-in-use that's begining to lose it's scary-sharp. Half a dozen or so light drags across hard leather charged with a fine honing compound and a bit of light oil is enough. It'll retrieve an edge three or four times before a re-sharpening of the edge is needed via jig and the fine sharpening medium.
Very vigorous, prolonged and/or high pressure honing on leather can round-over an edge too much because the leather compresses and changes the angle of the bevel or makes a slight round of the back-side of the edge. Two Cherries chisels used to come like this from the factory - highly polished but with a rounded-over edge, both on the back and the bevel - which was tedious to correct.
Lataxe
@rwe2156 - Thanks, that makes total sense. I like your set up. I think I could certainly benefit from a finer stone too, and a wet stone is clearly the way to go.
Well, you know, I do have a honing guide, but its a little bit pissed for what of a better phrase. Its more work getting the chisel to sit securely and square than actually sharpening the thing! I'm definitely game for learning to sharpen freehand. In the meantime a new honing guide may be in order.
@John_C2 - I'm using a Trend 300/1000 double sided plate.
@CEStanford - "Make sure you aren't rocking the tool or cutter and rounding the end" Thanks, I do have a habit of getting out of rhythm sometimes which has inspired the odd wobble on my precarious guide.
@Fattboyy - I'm confident I have a flat back. Typically, my chisels had a hollow back out the box, but I have a fairly polished edge around the top and sides (so I assume that's a good sign?)
"don’t forget the tool back" - do you go through all of your stones with the back in the same way you do your bevel?
@jfsksa - Thanks for the tips Paul Sellers is actually one of the guys I look to most. I haven't heard of the other chap, but i'll look him up.
MikeInOhio - Okay, sold! Prior to reading your message I was starting to wonder whether my grits may be a bit too high to use for every sharpen. Thanks for confirming.
FYI I don't know if its worth mentioning, but the chisel I use are Irwin Marples Chisels, which are high carbon steel (https://www.irwin.com/tools/chisels/marples-woodworking-chisel)
I picked these when I started out as they were good value for money.
@Lat_axe - I'm so glad you mentioned that, as I've been experiencing some heart ache trying to get my plane iron back flat! I've spent an hour or more on it. Do you think the ruler trick will solve my problem of reaching those 'untouchable' spots? (picture attached).
I'll look into the 3M strips too. Would you consider this a more cost effective and efficient approach then buying diamond/water stones of the same grits?
FYI my blade is a stanley blade, for an old no. 5 Bailey plane.
Thanks everyone!
What honing guide are you currently using?
It always seems crazy to me to try and flatten and polish the entire back of an older plane blade. The wood doesn't care if it can see itself in your blade. Use the ruler trick.
Luke wrote: "Do you think the ruler trick will solve my problem of reaching those 'untouchable' spots? (picture attached)".
It's hard to say from the pic. If the hatched area is not "deep" then the ruler trick would probably do away with the need to otherwise grind loads off the shiny area to get it co-planar with the (gradually flattened) hatched area. If the hatched areas is a big dip then you'd probably be best binning that blade and getting a better one.
That's probably a bevel-down blade is it? If so, any back bevel will alter the cutting angle. The ruler-trick back-bevel angle is very small, though, so it shouldn't make any significant difference to the cutting action.
On the other hand, you could put on a steeper and slightly larger back bevel and have the plane at York pitch (50 degree cutting angle) or even steeper, if that would suit the wood you generally plane with that blade. Steeper cutting angles are good (less or no tearout) for naughty grain but harder to push.
Luke wrote: "I'll look into the 3M strips too. Would you consider this a more cost effective and efficient approach then buying diamond/water stones of the same grits"?
It depends on how much you sharpen really. And how much mess you're prepared to put up with. :-) Water stones are mucky-messy things. Diamond stones are expensive (for decent quality). But water stones and diamond stones will last a long time whilst 3M and similar "sand" papers can tear and wear more quickly.
I use rough grade diamond stones for grinding lots off things - but as an amateur I do little of that so even a rough diamond is a bit of an indulgence. You can get rough 3M papers that grind but I haven't used those personally.
The finer grade 3M papers stuck on float glass as several strips of around 12 inches long by 3 inches wide, each a different grade, provides a very fast way to both establish and maintain an extremely sharp micro bevel. As long as you drag the blade with a light touch (preferably in a honing guide) rather than push it, the papers won't rip.
Nor do they seem to wear that fast, although the effective grade seems to get a bit finer with prolonged use (over a year, say, of amateur use). The trick is to use light pressure and let the paper take away the metal. It does so surprisingly fast.
You can buy single sheets of 3M papers of many grades, each costing about $4.00 (£3.00 in Britain). You can get 3 of the aforementioned strips out of each sheet, so 4 sheets,say, of different grades should last a long time unless you're a professional sharpening all the time.
I use mine lubricated with WD40 or a thinner oil, cleaning it off the papers along with the grey ground-off metal after I finish sharpening using wispier plane shavings bunched up in one hand. The float glass they rest on can be found free in skips (dumpsters). Half inch thick is best. It's not expensive to buy if you don't fancy skip-diving.
For just a touch-up of a micro-bevel that won't leather-hone sharp again, I often just drag the edge over the finest grit with no lubrication (in the honing guide though) for 8-12 strokes. You can see a faint grey track where the metal is being taken off. A side-wipe of the back to take off the wire edge and off you go again.
Lataxe
@John_C2 - My honing guide: I'm using a cheap £10 that is in need of replacement, what ever happens. I'm definitely considering the Veritas guide, but read its also necessary to buy an additional attachment as it doesn't hold chisels straight otherwise.
With the time its taken me thus far in flattening my plane back to achieve very little, I'm definitely going to have a crack at the ruler trick. Certainly beats working full time just flattening my plane iron!
@Lat_axe - Yeah I believe it is a bevel down blade.
Haha well at the moment I sharpen a lot, but that's as a result of my sharpening skills over anything else!
I do have some glass that I have used in the past (though I think it was a glass shelf or something originally, not float glass... still suitable?), but as i'm in this for the long haul i'm seriously thinking about adding a water stone to my method now; possibly a combination 3000/8000 stone which i'll use to follow up my 1000 diamond stone. Then I can (if my thinking is correct), just use my glass with some 100 grit sand paper to flatten my stone when needed?
Can you recommend any good water stone brands that would be available in the UK? Sub £100 would be ideal (if possible).
Yeah flattening the back is a chore and the ruler trick certainly works. The back -(where the edge meets the front) needs to be polished. You won't get a good edge if the front is honed with 4000+ grit and the back is scratchy like your picture. I can't tell you how many hours and techniques I spent trying to flatten backs. That's why I own a lot of japanese tools now. I can't recommend the work sharp enough. It grinds well, doesn't burn metal and isn't messy like the Tormek.
Pick a system, and stick with it. They all work. There is no need to try more than one. You realkky only need:
1. A way to establish a primary bevel. Grinder or very course stone of some kind.
2. First hone. 1000-4000ish grit of preferred media.
3. Final hone. 8000ish grit of whatever.
I would add a honing guide. I like the Lie Nielsen and dislike others, as blades moved around on me or didn't get square. Others love those same guides though.
Pick something for 1, 2, and 3 above. Then don't change. If something isn't working, Its a flaw of technique, not materials. Work on the technique.
All of the things above, from diamonds, sandpaper, waterstones, Arkansas stones, etc, etc, etc, all work. All of them. Pick one, and then stop. There is no secret media, just experience.
I got much faster and better at sharpening when I realized I could change the angle slightly to ensure the front edge is being touched. Using a sharpie/dykem, etc. near the leading edge provides an indicator. If you remove the sharpie, you have a burr! A good honing guide is a must for us rookies. Of course, I find eventually, your angle is too high. In that case, you'll need a grind. Don't have a grinder but I'll drop to factory angle and use the lowest grit I have until I get close to the edge.
Sounds like your process needs work, but also you're just not going fine enough to get good cutting edges.
Mike Pekovich has an excellent video about sharpening right here on FWW. It's everything you need to know.
I think you asked about this: You set up the back of the blade ONCE, either when new, or when reconditioning a trashed blade. Work through the grits to the highest polish possible, focusing particularly near the cutting edge. Chisels need to have a larger flat area, as that's their reference surface. Plane blades use the sole as the reference, so only need to be flattened 1/8" from the cutting edge.
Once you've done this, never touch anything coarser than your finest grit to that back.
Next, establish the primary bevel. I use sandpaper and a granite plate. Grits 80 - 320. Any further is pretty, but a waste of time and material. It's not the cutting surface... See Deneb Puchalski at Lie-Nielsen for more on this. You'll need to re-establish the primary every 8-12 sharpenings, or whenever your micro bevel widens to the point where you're taking a lot of material, lot of time.
I highly recommend the Veritas Deluxe Honing Guide. Highly. Consistency of angle is everything, and this guide over all others I've tried (most of them) handles that effortlessly. It's very easy to jig up the blade, and it doesn't shift around. It comes with an integrated angle guide, and the angle guide, and the tool itself, has a very wide range of possible angles.
The thing I like best about it is the roller is on an eccentric axle. Without changing anything else, just click the roller axle to one of four detented positions. It takes the base angle (whatever you've set), and each click goes a bit steeper - less than one degree, but plenty to establish a new micro bevel, on top of your old one, without needed to re-establish the primary. Because of this, I can go 3-4 times as long on a primary bevel, or around 30-40 sharpenings.
Micro bevels (I usually start at 30°) are created with water stones. I started with 1000, 4000, and 8000. Middle of the road quality. They do a good job, no question. The 8k leaves the blade quite sharp, I can shave a few hairs from my arm.
A year ago I bought a Shapton glass-backed 16000. It only takes another 15 seconds or so to use, and the edge goes from really sharp to straight-razor. The Shapton works so well, is showing no wear yet, and is so easy to use, that I'll be replacing my others with Shaptons when they wear out.
I have that Trend 300/1000 diamond plate. I use the 300 side to flatten the stones before each use. I do this in a tub of water, to wash away the crud and leave a clean cutting surface. Since it's done frequently, the stones are always in good shape, and the flattening process takes about 15 seconds.
I don't have much need for the 1000 side (I prefer the water stone), but it's handy for sharpening things like card scrapers that would quickly wear a groove in a stone.
Back to the micro-bevel. Keep working the lowest grit (1000) until there's a burr. If you keep your blades in good shape, this happens in just a few strokes on the stone. If I need to work past a chip, I'll go back to the coarse sandpaper, to re-establish the primary.
Leave the burr and continue through 4k, 8k, 16k. Only then, take a few careful swipes on the back, with the 16k stone. Just enough to remove the burr. I use the ruler trick for this.
Depending on use, and on the type of steel, I may sharpen two or three times throughout the day. As soon as I notice the slightest dullness, I stop, and head for the sharpening station. Assuming I'm just touching up micro bevels, I can work through a handful of chisels and a couple of plane blades, and be back to work in 1/2 hour or less.
Finding space for a dedicated sharpening station helps, so you don't have to dig it all out every time.
@Fattboyy - With the ruler trick, would I repeat the process on each grit in my process? That was one thing that I wasn't quite sure about. It seemed to make sense that the answer was yes, but freestyling a repeatable angle on the back in that way was what raised questions.
@John_C2 - Thanks John, that was a great answer and has given me a lot more confidence in regards to what my next step is going to be.
@ted927 - Haha yeah at one point I thought I had freehand sharpening down. I had a nice locked arm position, a good rocking motion with my body, and a consistent rhythm... Then I remembered I had to get up and repeat that on each stone!
moosie57 - Thanks. And I'll be sure to check that out!
"Once you've done this, never touch anything coarser than your finest grit to that back." Thank you so much, I always wondered about that!
Thank you for the rest of your tips too. I think i'm getting more than I bargained for in this post, in the best possible way!
"I highly recommend the Veritas Deluxe Honing Guide", Excellent, this was on my short list along with the Lie Nelson, so I much appreciate your review.
"I have that Trend 300/1000 diamond plate. I use the 300 side to flatten the stones before each use." - Brilliant! I was hoping that I could use my Trend stone for flattening :)
I could spend all day quoting your message, as the rest of your tips were also very insightful. Thank you for your little golden nuggets of wisdom!
UPDATE
So thanks again for everybody's advice. In the end I bought the Veritas jig, and a 3000/8000 combination water stone. Then here's what I did:
1. Thanks again Lat_axe for the ruler trick recommendation. Unfortunately I didn't have a thin enough ruler/surface for reference, so i decided to go with the Veritas jig. I went with an arbitrary angle that looked right, began with the 100 diamond, then followed up with a few strokes either side of the combination stone. Afterwards I thought that perhaps this was a bit pointless, given that the waterstone wasn't the same height as the diamond (though I tried to get the height as close as possible), so maybe I should have skipped straight to the 8000 for the back bevel? After a bit of a strop I ended up with what seems like a flat and shiny surface (pictured).
2. I then proceeded to create a primary and then a micro bevel with the Veritas, working through the grits (though I haven't added a camber)...
My final note would be that the blade 'seems' sharp, though I'm having difficulty trimming end grain on the ol shooting board. I wondered if this could be because the angle is too steep? Obviously its an arbitrary angle, but I will say that I can feel a peak where the new back meets the old, so perhaps that's an indication? I'm determined to not throw this blade away! (Plus its an old Bailey blade, and they seemed in pretty scarce supply when I had a peep online).
From what I can tell my chisels are pretty sharp, though i've yet to put them through their paces.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
I don't own a Veritas Guide but I believe it's supposed to be entirely on the stone during sharpening.
EDIT: My mistake! I thought the photos were of the primary bevel, not the back bevel. Disregard my above comment.
Luke,
The ruler trick is meant to make only a teeny-weeny micro-bevel on the very tip of the back at the cutting edge. In addition, it's meant to be a very shallow angle - just enough to take off any roughness left in the back at the blade edge and no more. That one you've made is rather large, so it is. Finally, you need to do the trick in a consistent fashion, not as you've done ad-hoc with the Veritas guide off of a waterstone. Here's DC showing and explaining the technique in a video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nykVPKbUGTo
Now ...... the style of information delivery in a Charlesworth video is somewhat glacial (and every sentence begins with "Now .....and a pause). But have a cup of coffee and persist with this slow delivery as it's just the right pace for taking in the info, unlike with some over-excited jabberer fellows one sees on that Tube. :-)
To the bevel side, then. The micro-bevel you've made is , well, not micro. It'll take much more time to sharpen if it's that large; and you may come to a point (!) where you need to re-establish the main bevel a lot sooner than you would if your micro-bevel was truly micro. One thing you might do, though, is to put another 1/2 degree micro-bevel (a very small one about 1/32" wide) on your current "micro"-bevel, using the eccentric roller of that Veritas guide. Good innit, the eccentric roller!?
Note, by the way, that the ruler trick is not generally for use with chisels, as many use the flat back as the reference surface to determine the height at which the edge is to cut. On the other hand, you'll find quite a lot of discussion suggesting that a lot of actual real-world chisel use sees the chisel tipped up a bit anyway. Perhaps only a long paring chisel needs a flat back right to the very tip of the edge......... (Can you hear cries of horror coming from somewhere now)?
Lataxe
Don't use a 100 grit stone for the ruler trick. If you do it first, you'll get rid of your work if you follow up with the primary bevel.
1. Primary bevel through 8,000 grit, or whatever your finest stone is.
2. Ruler trick on the back. Finest stone only. Really jyst a half dozen strokes, tops. Tiniest of micro bevels.
Your process still needs work. It's all been laid out here. Be methodical and consistent. Don't get hung up on the ruler trick. Worst case, you just do the back of the blade as you would a chisel - with no ruler.
Give the 100 grit stone away. Don't get it anywhere near these blades.
Finally, while using an old plane is cool, as long as it's been restored, sole flattened, etc... well, I wouldn't keep old tires on a vintage car. Blades are consumable, ultimately. Now that you've wrecked the back with that bevel, you'll need to either grind past it, or just get a nice new blade. New steel is better, the blades are thicker for less chatter. Plus, they come mostly dead on, just need a bit of polishing on the back, plus adding a micro bevel.
Micro. You only cut with the very edge. 1/16" away from the edge - it never sees the wood. Keep the new micro bevel very tiny.
Ummmm... you have your plane iron upside-down in your awesome honing guide. I would bet that a flat back is now probably out of reach. Hang it on a nail as a reminder and just replace it.
Read the manual that came with the honing guide and start again. Sorry for the downer, but you should never have a plane iron in that guide as in your photos.
Luke,
Moosie and MJ are probably right that you should put that blade o' yourn aside now and regard it as a-one of those lessons-learnt-by-error sorts of education. As I recall, your original question was about how to avoid doing a ton more work to flatten that not-so-good old blade. But now is the time to consider replacing it with a very good blade instead. MJ is probably right that your original blade is boogered and would take even more work to correct than it would fixing it from it's condition as you first showed it here.
New blades are, as Moosie notes, of far better quality if you buy one from one of the reputable makers. Many excellent makers supply such replacement blades that are better metal, thicker and already flat-backed. Some are so good you don't need to touch the back at all apart from removing the wire created when you put your Ultimate Edge on the bevel with your 32,000 grade "stone". :-)
One thing to be wary of, though, is that a significantly thicker new blade might not clear the plane mouth when advanced. Usually, moving the frog back will avoid that but not always (depending on the plane and the thickness of the new blade).
The ruler trick is a solution to your original issue - a blade back that's rather poor i' the flatness and would otherwise take many man-hours to get right. No need for a back-bevel of the teeny ruler-trick kind with a modern high quality blade, though. Only old or cheap (and possibly nasty) new blades need the ruler trick to avoid the 10 hour back flattening tedium.
You also need to read/watch some of the vast amount of info available about various techniques and methods for sharpening blades. You need to be patient so as to understand and absorb this stuff, so you can make an informed choice about the method you'll adopt for yourself then apply it aright. Forums such as this can only give you pointers, not supply a complete and foolproof method. And whilst experimentation and errors are fine and necessary modes of learning, at some point you have to get it right.
Do you have a full FWW membership? This website has a lot of information about sharpening techniques, including not just the various detailed processes but explanations of how and why they work. As with all woodworking, it's worth getting these theoretical understandings before you do the real learning via doing it yourself. You'll save yourself time, frustration and money.
Lataxe
@Lat_axe
Thanks for the feedback. Yes, I think I've made a few amateur mistakes here (eek). I should obviously have a much subtle back angle. The consolation I may take from this is that i'm suspicious that that back left corner is enough off straight that the ruler trick may have made no difference, but of course I can't know that for sure.
Yeah the old Veritas is a dream! It'll be even better when I actually use it properly haha!
"ruler trick is not generally for use with chisels" - You may be please to hear that I have achieved a nice sharp and shiny edge with my chisels! (which began by flattening the backs). And breath everyone ;)
@John_C2
Thanks for clearing that up, I appreciate it :)
@moosie57
"Worst case, you just do the back of the blade as you would a chisel" - Where actually that's where I started, but the blade is enough out of whack that the time I was spending trying to get it flat was getting me nowhere.
Without a grinding wheel, a nice new blade it is then... or maybe a new plane? It doesn't seem as though these bailey blades are too easy to come by. Though perhaps that doesn't matter - Is there a standard set of sizes, or would only a bailey blade do?
Thanks for the micro bevel tip!
@_MJ_
Thanks for the feedback. Well actually I was following the manual instructions for adding a back bevel. None the less, that was obviously not what I was looking for, so lesson learned!
@Lat_axe
"As I recall, your original question was about how to avoid doing a ton more work to flatten that not-so-good old blade." I know right?! Haha
"Do you have a full FWW membership?" No, but i'm definitely considering it!
What would you guys suggest in regards to replacing my blade? Is there a standard blade size for all planes that I can choose from, or as I said before, would I just need to keep trying to hunt down a Bailey blade specifically?
Get a Hock blade for the make and model of plane you have. If the website does not show it call and speak to Ron, he does not have all of his line on the site. Consider one of his kits that includes a matched chipbreaker, totally worth it.
Excellent, thank you. I'll take a look, and hopefully I can find a supplier here in the UK.
One supplier of Hock blades in the UK is ....
https://www.classichandtools.com/acatalog/Bench-Plane-Blades-and-Breakers-1-2.html
Lataxe
Excellent, thank you!
Luke,
I noticed something in the photo in the #9 post. I’ve had that exact problem. After thousands of strokes I figured out that it was my technique. I used way too heavy a touch. A light touch works. Something in my motion pushed the same corner, early on, too hard and I couldn’t get it flat. Mine was an old Stanley Bailey #4 plane. I bought a Hock iron (blade) and chip breaker. Honed it to 8000 and added a micro bevel. Works fantastic. By the way, Ron Hock wrote what I consider the Bible of sharpening, “The Perfect Edge.” The amount of research and knowledge that went into that book is astounding. He’s also an entertaining writer. And he will return your call if you have a question.
Best of Luck,
Wes
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