Replies

1. 
   SgianDubh | Nov 14, 2004 01:34am | #1

   No they don't Curtis.

   But stains might if they also contain a film forming polish element.

   By definition dyes don't 'stain' as such. They do change the colour of the wood by absorption because dyes are a coloured liquid made by dissolving soluble colours.

   Stains usually, but not always, contain dye, and they always contain pigments that don't dissolve often making them the colourant of choice for open grained or ring porous woods and less useful for fine grained woods. In open grained woods the insoluble pigments highlight the open pores by lodging in them-- an often desirable feature of stains. 

   Dyes never have a film forming polish element, but as I mentioned before stains sometimes do.

   It can get confusing, but if you remember stain means an element of insoluble pigments and dyes are clear coloured liquids you'll be well on the way to understanding how they work differently. Slainte.

   RJFurniture

1. 
   Curtis | Nov 14, 2004 02:05am | #3

   Thank you Slainte

   I thought so but wasn't sure, So I thought Ide ask.

   Ive of late been using some dyes, (which I really like.)  The thought came to me, IF I pre-dye the finished parts before glue up, it would be easier and faster .Then to finish with a top coat as the finale step.

   this way Ide have a better finish with less troubles keeping the dye off what wasn't suppose to be dyed. and keeping the uniformed color where I wanted it to be.

   thanks again Slainte.

   .C.A.G.

2. 
   migraine | Nov 14, 2004 02:04am | #2

   To add to a previous post, I have used some dyes that are/seem to be water soluable.  With that in mind, some adhesives might cause the color to bleed on other parts or into the glue line.  Just try some sample pieces first.  Better safe than sorry.  Though, I have never had a problem with the integrity of the glue joint. 

1. 
   Curtis | Nov 14, 2004 02:06am | #4

   Thank you.C.A.G.

3. 
   GHR | Nov 14, 2004 07:00pm | #5

   depends on the glue and dyes you use.

4. 
   mudman | Nov 14, 2004 07:08pm | #6

   As the others posted you need not worry about dyes or stains, unless they have a binder or film forming ingredeant. I don't trust premixed stains/ dies because the packaging never tells you what is inside. I suspect that most all of the common brands (minwax and the like) have these ingredients. So I pretty much only use dyes in the powder form.

   Mike

   please excuse my spelling.
1. 
   Curtis | Nov 14, 2004 07:50pm | #7

   Hello

   Thanks to all who replyed.

   Ive been playing around with some powered dyes, and mixing them with Denatured Alcohol. ( I dont trust waterbased anything, Ive had a lot of trouble in the past, so I am sticking to Alcohol.)

   As I said earlier I am realy enjoying these dies. I received them as a gift a year or so back. they are from Rockler, the brand im not sure of. but they work great!

   I am working on a puppet stage for my sisters kids. I used plywood, pine, poplar,and beech. I dyed them dark walnut, and finished with a poly. All three woods look the same and match in color, no difference in shades or anything.Im impressed, Ide expected there would be some difference how the different wood would take the dye, but It really worked out well.

   I will post a picture of the job, A.S.A.P. (perhaps in a day or two.)

   thanks again.C.A.G.

1. 
   mudman | Nov 14, 2004 09:22pm | #8

   Curtis,

   I use the same dyes and after using them I cant imagine using pigment based stains on difficult wood like chery. I like the nice even finish. As others posted pigment satins highlight the figure in interesting woods a lot better.

   Mikeplease excuse my spelling.

5. 
   KesslerCraftsman | Nov 15, 2004 07:59am | #9

   Hey Curtis,

   I just asked this very question of Jeff Jewitt, on the forum at http://www.homesteadfinishing.com  I do lots of Mission stuff and getting finishing done on all of those tiny spindles post-construction is really time consuming.

   I want to pre-dye-stain everything and then just glue is together and do garnett shellac, pore filling and clear top-coats after glue-up.

   Jeff's response was as long as the dyes don't have binders (and Trans Tint Dye Stains don't) I don't need to worry about masking off the tenons, etc.

   Good luck!

   Larry Pile
   http://www.kesslercraftsman.com