Replies

1. 
   DaveHeinlein | Mar 24, 2003 03:05am | #1

   What is it that doesn't make sense?

1. 
   silver77 | Mar 24, 2003 05:14am | #3

   It's the sash bit drawings...I don't get how they work...I know how cope and stick works and have made lots of cabinet doors that way.

   I've looked at several bits and they all look roughly the same...I know it is basically cope and stick...guess I need to buy one and read the instructions. However, I have one set with very lame instructions...that's why I'm confused as to how they actually fit together...

   CHASSTANFORD-Roger on the flat and straight grained fir!

   thanks

   silver 

   Edited 3/23/2003 10:15:53 PM ET by silver

1. 
   DaveHeinlein | Mar 24, 2003 02:13pm | #4

   I have sash bits for my shaper and unlike the more industrial tooling, there's no way to cut a tenon any longer than the glass rebate. This doesn't make for a very strong joint, in fact, I don't believe it would last through sanding and finishing unless you handle it like a baby. What I have come to, is to dowel the joint before running the cope&stick pattern. I use a horizontal borer, but before I had that, I would either use a doweling jig, or cob up a horizontal boring rig with a slow speed drill. This had varying results, and I knew it was not a production set up. I eventualy got a boring machine.

   As far as the mullions go, use the straightest, clearest stock you can find. What I do is cope the ends of a wide piece, then rip off a mullion and shape the sawn side using a jig which traps the whole mullion. Make the jig large enough to get a good grip on it. I then attach the mullion to the frame with some glue and a small brad, which is set and filled. HTH, good luck.

2. 
   ChasStanford | Mar 24, 2003 03:37am | #2

   I'd buy a sash set from CMT.  I believe they come with all the instructions you'll need.  You'd better lay your hands on some straight-grained stock unless you want to see your muntins and mullions turn into a pretzel when you shape them.

1. 
   LeeEschen | Mar 30, 2003 10:56am | #10

   I'll second Chas' vote for CMT window sash bits. As mentioned in another post, most sash bits do not allow for long tenons, but the CMT sash bit set allows for a full length tenon, due to its design.

   The cope bit cuts face side down and rides under the tenon. This is unique among sahs bits, as far as I know. CMT quality tends to be quite high, as well, so you can hardly go wrong with them.

   --

   Lee in Cave Junction, Oregon

   Gateway to the Oregon Caves

1. 
   silver77 | Apr 05, 2003 08:40am | #11

   I 've got the CMT router bits in my furry hand as we speak...thanks for the short answer.

   thanks!

   silver 

3. 
   IronDog | Mar 25, 2003 01:51am | #5

   Hi Ho Silver!

   (sorry for the bad joke!)

   I was just looking at an old article in FHB about that very subject.

   I will try to find the time to look for it.

   There are also books about window and door building on amazon.

   all for now,

   Tom

4. 
   ChipTam | Mar 25, 2003 01:46pm | #6

   Silver,

   Take a look at the CMT catalog.  It includes a very good two-page description of how to use their router bit sash set.  It shows how to make a longer tenon (about 1 1/2").  If you have a set from another company I believe the same set-up will work.  I made about a dozen sash last spring out of pine using the CMT bits.  Fir could be a bit more problematic since it doesn't machine quite as well.

   Chip 

1. 
   silver77 | Mar 27, 2003 02:45am | #7

   Great info...it helping lots. I'm involved in a huge project of rebuilding an old city park and buildings and am pressed for thinking time.

   Really appreciate your feedback...

   Hi ho silver

1. 
   IronDog | Mar 27, 2003 03:13pm | #8

   Silver,

   I have checked my FHB back issues and so far can't find the darn article!

   I had another thought for you to consider.

   This is a really big job to take on with a router, 75 windows!

   I would consider purchasing a shaper and power feeder OR

   you might think about having a millwork shop mill the stock for you and

   then that would leave you with coping, loose tenons or doweling for the joints and assembly. Do you have to paint or glaze them too?

   Just a few thoughts,

   I'll keep trying to find that article.

   Here is a book that might be useful.

   Millwork Handbook.

   http://www.cambiumbooks.com/books/joinery-finish_carpentry/0-8069-8698-0/

   Tom

1. 
   silver77 | Mar 29, 2003 06:36pm | #9

   Hey IronDog,

   I'm actually training several HRDC employees to do production work...we do have a shaper that will accept router bits and a power feeder. I taught them how to rip on a tablesaw with a power feeder yesterday and by day's end we had ripped up 2000 bd.' of 2" cedar safely.

   I'm leaning towards CMT sash bits but am in info gathering mode...apparently the tenons can be cut 1" to 1-1/2" long for added joint strength.

   appreciate your feedback...have a good week-end...just got some poor man's fertilizer here in the north country-6" of spring snow. Got to work in my shop all week-end. I'm hopelesssly behind on a custom cabinet job.

   cheers,

   silver