Replies

1. 
   Jimma | Mar 15, 2003 11:45pm | #1

   Bob -- I don't know of any plans as such, but I do know wine and I can give you some practical suggestions. For general design concepts, go to a newsstand or bookstore and buy a copy of Wine Spectator. Inside you'll find several ads for wine racks and equipment, such as coolers, stock metal and wood racking, etc. Contact the companies that offer wine cellar racks and ask them to send you their catalogs. Once you get them you'll see some of the most unbelievable arrangements and designs you've never dreamed of -- plus standard modular racking. Make certain you go over the possibilities with your client, including whether he wants cooling or not, then decide on a general layout taking into consideration what types of wine he will store. (Most Burgundy and Bordeaux bottles will fit into a 4-inch opening, but that's only most. Certain traditional wines come in wierd-shaped bottles, Champagne in larger than 4-inch bottles, riesling wines from Alsace and Germany in long skinny bottles, large-volume sizes like 1 1/2 liters and up, plus he'll probably want a provision for glasses, tasting area, space for keeping wine in wooden cases, etc.) If he's a real collector he'll also have some special requirements for his reds and/or whites. Maybe he thinks he doesn't want the stock racking that's available, but it can be plenty custom with the right design and he's going to need you to do the prep and installation, anyway. Otherwise, find a picture that suits his intent and build the racking out of Wester Red Cedar (it smells good) on a 4X4 inch modulus plus whatever he tells you he's going to store that won't fit 4X4. (I would use 4/4 or 5/4 square stock stapled together without any jointing.)Don't forget to insulate the walls and ceiling and floor if there's going to be cooling, and ten-to-one the floor isn't level, so you may need to consider a leveling provision. Seventy lineal feet of real estate, one bottle deep, will hold nearly 50 cases of wine and so he'll probably also want some kind of counter or desk for his inventory control -- maybe even a sink, too.

   Like most everything else, nothing's easy once you get into it. Plus, if he's like most people who want a wine cellar, he'll want to show it off and that means he'd like to have a little old-world styling with dim lights, maybe a special "cellar" door with a big lock, and all the rest. Once you see the cellars they show in those catalogs, you'll see what I mean -- and so will he. Good luck and let me know how it goes.

1. 
   bobg10 | Mar 18, 2003 09:52pm | #4

   Thanks for your info.  I have some catalogs from wine rack suppliers, but I could not tell the jointing methods.  Sounds like they all use butt joints and staples, which makes it kind of simple.  I was looking to make the racks and the cellar a show place as I think that is what they want. 

   I built a 18 x 25 addition for him - cost about $80k, with a full basement which I am now in the process of finishing.  He and his wife want a sauna, a wine cellar, and an exercise area as well as storage in the basement area.  The wine cellar is 7 x 10, he cut the sauna down to 6 x 6, which I think is a little small since they have all kinds of room.  He wants to build everything from scratch - no kits.

   We are doing an arched opening into the wine cellar with used brick and a 3' solid plank door with a little window like in an old castle.  Old time hinges, etc.  Actually, we have two 10' walls and one 7' wall, plus the wall with the door.  We will probably have a table and chairs along the one wall as you suggest.

   I will let you know how it turns out and maybe take some pictures.  Maybe I can interest Fine Homebuilding in an article - I have written for them before.

   Thanks again,

   Bob

1. 
   Jimma | Mar 18, 2003 11:16pm | #7

   Sounds like an interesting project. You didn't mention cooling, but I forgot to suggest you'll need to consider air flow around the racking if they want it. Best way to do this is mount the cooling unit up high and let the conditioned air flow across and down through the racks, maybe on one of the 10 foot walls?

   I've been in some pretty nice cellars and they have all had stapled butt joinery - sometimes with the outside (visible) ends of the horizontal pieces cut at 45 degrees for looks. As some one else has said, the verticals are usually 1X2 material with a 1X2 horizontal stringer about waist high and about 6 bottles up. For some reason the stock racking divides into 5-bottle vertical sections. I bet the catalogs you have will show something like that. To be quite honest, once the racking is filled with wine only a woodworker would notice the kind of joints involved. They can be a bit rough, actually. Hell, it's a wine cellar!

   I would ask the client to give you some kind of schematic of the kinds of bottles they want to store and whether they will want any diamond or carton shaped spaces along with the 4X4 racks. If you don't get a committment from them up front, you'll be forever changing the layout once they see it up, and you can wind up being the bad guy.

   Guess they need the sauna and excercise area to work off the wine???

2. 
   BrianF | Mar 16, 2003 12:44am | #2

   Bob, Jim has given alot of what I would tell you. I have built racking for a friend that owns a specialty wine store. She had the original 450 cases of racking custom built some where in Washington. They were both free standing and wall mounted. I couldn't build all of it in the 30 days of build out time she had from occupying the store front and opening. I have since built more for her to match the existing, her own personal cellar and one other. The custom stuff that she had built was real simply constructed with vertical rails (3/4 x 1 1/2) and then cleats (3/4 x 3/4) from front to back in the racks with and angled display at about 48" off the floor. There was also "diamond" storage wich is simply a 24"x 24" box with an "x" in it. The bottles then go in the triangles created by the "x" in the box. I will dig up some of the digital pics that I have back at home (away for the weekend) and e-mail them to you.

   As John said one of the most commonly used woods is western red cedar, but you might want to look at other moisture/ rot resistant woods as well (redwood, cyprus, etc.) The joinery was all simple butt joints and staples. If I was building one for my self or a customer who is willing to pay for a little nicer job you could get a little more creative and get much better results. My customer was looking for function, quantity of bottles, and price not asthetics. To her the wine was to be the focus to me it would be the racking. (I couldn't tell the difference between a quality merlot and Boone's Farm if I tried.) I had to as John mentioned build different sizes for a few racks, to fit champagne bottles that wouldn't fit in the standard rack sizes. I also know that I once saw Norm build a free standing rack. You might be able to find that plan as well

   Good luck, Brian

1. 
   bobg10 | Mar 18, 2003 09:55pm | #5

   Brain, thanks for the input.   See my reply to Jim as I think that explains the direction I am taking.  Like you, I am trying to improve the rack design as this cellar is more of a show place than wine storage.  I don't think butt joints and staples are the most pleasing way to go, but it may end up that way.

   Bob

3. 
   jeffn7 | Mar 16, 2003 08:16pm | #3

   I don't know of any plans, every wine cellar I've been in has been a custom. The basics of storing wine are pretty straightforward, the details tend to revolve more around how the client wishes to use the room. In my house, the wine cellar is pretty much storage only with concrete floors and walls, but in other houses I have been in the cellars are entertainment rooms with elaborate paneling, lighting and sound. The racks themselves are pretty much the same.

   here's a site that features some nice pictures for ideas:

   http://www.vintagedesign.com/body.asp?SID=1Y9RVISY8Y8A6AU0P01JZWMD4U0Z7XV7FYXMI04E635200989

1. 
   bobg10 | Mar 18, 2003 09:57pm | #6

   Thanks for the reply.  See my reply to Jim. 

   Bob