Wiring a 220v outlet for the 5hp UniSaw.
First off, hello all. I am a railroad engineer who likes to make sawdust and am in the process of upgrading my tablesaw.
I just sold my Delta Contractor saw today and the plan is to order the 5hp UniSaw on Monday. I am choosing the 5hp over the 3hp because of the minimal price difference ($50-$100).
So according to the Manual, the circuit should be wired with 10gauge and be protected by a 40 amp time delay fuse. Does it need to be a fuse? Do they not make time delay circuit breakers? If not, should I have the power routed to a sub box/panel containing the 40 amp fuse? If so, what amperage breaker should I have in the main panel feeding the subpanel containing the 40 amp fuse? I am planning on running 10/3 (w/ground of course) so I can have some outlets at my workbench as there aren’t any. I also plan on using conduit as my garage is finished and I don’t really like the look of romex attached to the wall.
I also plan on purchasing a 6″ PM jointer and some type of planer. I want a 15″ PM with a helical head but will probably settle for a Dewalt 735X as the new UniSaw and jointer are tapping the wallet fairly well. My shop includes a Kreg router table with a PC 7518, Delta 14″ 1hp bandsaw, a 6″ belt/9″ disc sander (or the other way around) and a Delta 1hp dust collector.
Thanks in advance, Eugene
Replies
5 HP
Just thinking that if this is not a shop w/employees and pushing out large amounts of product - 3 HP is enough - easy to resell and easy to wire -
Just upgrading to the 3 HP from the contractor saw would be enough for me - but wish you luck no matter how you build your shop.
SA
I concur.
wiring question - depends
Does that model not have any overload protection at the mag switch? 5HP is a nice saw. It will come into play if you cut a lot of big stuff 12/4 and above without bogging down.
Since it's reccomending 40 amp delayed fuse but its only 10awg wire here is my estimate of why.
First, 10 awg is only rated at 30 amp. It needs to mated with 30amp plugs, recepticles, and breakers. To do otherwise is dangerous and can burn your house down and kill someone.
I'd say that's 20Amps per leg @ 220v (40amps total). hence the 10 awg wire. Lenght of the run can come into play and if you are a long run from the box then you could experience an issue and need to go up to a bigger wire. Look at the motor plate to make sure of the amp rating that will dictate the wire guage but the manual should be accurate for that model. The 40amp fuse is inline to the motor as overload protection i.e. it pulls too much it would trip saving the motor.
Me i'd do 10awg with a 30a breaker at the box which is what i've seen with 5hp saws(thats a general statement). If you want the fuse put it inline down stream from the breaker, but you'd trip the breaker before you hit the 40amps IMO(in most cases not surging). Most mag switches these days have thermal overload protection so fuse part looks interesting. Main point I'd make don't confuse that fuse with a breaker. It's a code violation to have a 40a breaker mated to 10 awg wire.
Deciding on the 3hp instead.
bones wrote:
Does that model not have any overload protection at the mag switch? 5HP is a nice saw. It will come into play if you cut a lot of big stuff 12/4 and above without bogging down.
Since it's reccomending 40 amp delayed fuse but its only 10awg wire here is my estimate of why.
First, 10 awg is only rated at 30 amp. It needs to mated with 30amp plugs, recepticles, and breakers. To do otherwise is dangerous and can burn your house down and kill someone.
I'd say that's 20Amps per leg @ 220v (40amps total). hence the 10 awg wire. Lenght of the run can come into play and if you are a long run from the box then you could experience an issue and need to go up to a bigger wire. Look at the motor plate to make sure of the amp rating that will dictate the wire guage but the manual should be accurate for that model. The 40amp fuse is inline to the motor as overload protection i.e. it pulls too much it would trip saving the motor.
Me i'd do 10awg with a 30a breaker at the box which is what i've seen with 5hp saws(thats a general statement). If you want the fuse put it inline down stream from the breaker, but you'd trip the breaker before you hit the 40amps IMO(in most cases not surging). Most mag switches these days have thermal overload protection so fuse part looks interesting. Main point I'd make don't confuse that fuse with a breaker. It's a code violation to have a 40a breaker mated to 10 awg wire.
Unfortunately the only info I have on the saw is what I have read in the manual and online. The wire run will be 20' or less. I think I will go with the 3hp model 36-L352. I don't see my self cutting any 12/4 any time soon.
Would you run 10/3 or 12/3 wire for the 3hp saw?
Thank you.
Eugene
if 3hp u can do 12/2
" Would you run 10/3 or 12/3 wire for the 3hp saw?"
Most (again depends on the motor plate) will be 20 amps @ 220 so that means 10 amps per leg. The cost of copper these days is just unreal. I know why theft is so huge now its almost on par with gold. Unless you want to be able to do 110 at the same outlet as the 220 (sometimes that might be nice) or the saw mandates it. (digital displays etc that would require 110) you only need two hots and a ground. My 3hp griz saw has been 12/2. I have a 2hp bandsaw that could run on 14/2 because its only 7.5 amps per leg (15 total) @ 220. In my shop which is probably pretty typical I have 2 220v circuits. I have one dedicated to the dust collector 2hp 12/2 on a 20a breaker. I have a second circuit that is wired in series to several locations to serve my other 220v devices which include a 12" jointer, 17" Bandsaw, and the 3hp TS. Since I will never be operating two pieces at the same time that made sense. The run you speak of is nothing distance will not be an issue for you. I have recently switched over and started uing 3 phase power much better and 3 phase tools cheaper. I did put in a rotary phase converter but thats not hard. (sorry don't want to confuse the topic) . Again, if you only want to run the saw you don't need the 3rd conductor. As to the 3 .vs. 5 If you want it get it. I've never ever said dang I regret having to much power. My next upgrade is to a 5hp sawstop. Now that comes with additional cost for copper and breaker but its once.
I have a real good article on 220v and if you want shoot me a pm and I'll send it to you. Wiring is not complicated but you MUST do it to code or you could get yourself into a bad situation. Good luck.
Welcome
First off, welcome to the forum and congrats on your saw upgrade. That is a fine tool and you will be amazed at the difference between it and your contractor saw.
However, I would seriously rethink buying the 5hp. That saw is designed for a production environment and that doesn't sound like your situation. Even though there is a minimal price difference, you'll spend far more in wiring upgrades than it's worth. I have a 3hp Powermatic that sometimes runs 5-6 hours continuously with absolutely no problem. I'm not a production environment, but I'm certainly a busy shop these days. All my stationary equipment is on 20 or 30 amp 240v circuits.
Buy the 3hp and use the money you save on the extensive wiring requirements towards that PM jointer.
I have decided on the 3hp.
From what you all and some friends at work have said I think I am going to go with the 3hp. I am just a hobbyist and will just be building cabinets, aquarium stands, book shelves and childrens furniture, etc. All for my family and for fun.
Circuit Breaker
Install a circuit breaker equal to the amperage rating of the motor, this will be stamped on the motor tag, and you will do just fine.
Got it.
I was going to have it wired before I got the saw. I guess I could call Delta CS and find out the amperage of the motor.
Decision, decisions.
I am pretty set on the UniSaw but I still keep looking at the Powermatic and Saw Stop.
Hard choice....
All 3 are quality machines, each with it's own merit. I looked at all 3 when I bought my Powermatic.
The SawStop is a good machine, but the 3hp is actually more of a hybrid saw than a true cabinet saw.The trunion is not a solid piece like the Delta or PM. You have to install a different "cartridge" when you install a dado, and install the standard when doing other cuts. The safety factor is good, but to me the price vs features made the machine too expensive.
I looked hard at Jet, Delta, and PM, but the real decision was between Delta and PM. Delta is an exceptional machine, and is USA made. The Delta has a couple of features I really liked, including the ability to do a stacked dado greater than 1in. PM is an import, but has a long standing reputation. The arbor is a standard length, but has a locking feature for blade changes which I enjoy. I also liked the integrated caster system.
Honestly, it came down to price. At the time, PM had a promotion running that brought the price down quite a bit, so that was my choice. You won't go wrong either way as both saws have solid reputations and strong customer support systems behind them.
Whichever direction you choose, keep us informed and let us know how you like your new saw.
There are some overlapping questions here about machinery and electrical distribution in a small shop.
It's common today for detached garages to run off a 40 amp or 60 amp branch circuit from the house's main breaker box. Lots of guys run hobby woodworking, metalworking, or welding shops off of a 60 amp branch circuit with a secondary distribution box in the garage to provide several 220v and 110v circuits. A 40 amp branch circuit supplying the garage/shop will pinch a bit. A second service entrance to provide 100 or 200 amp service independent of the house is expensive overkill. Most of the material cost for the wire is upstream of that secondary distribution box.
It's a whole other story if this is an attached garage and each of the workshop circuits will be run off the house's main breaker box.
The breakers are there to protect the building and the occupants, not the motors wired into the circuits. This is most true when the circuits are not dedicated to individual machines but supply several which may run at the same time or may be of different size. Also, motors that start under load like an air compressor or hoist draw more starting current. The breaker must protect the circuit under the most load the motor will put on it, and it trips to protect the circuit not the motor.
3 hp single phase motors are well supplied by 20 amp, 220 volt, circuit breaker protected circuits using 12 gauge wire (12-2 with ground) for the shorter run lengths you would have. At one time some building codes recognised the metal counduit as an acceptable ground connection, but no longer.
I'd vote for the 3 hp motor. Actually using the 5 hp puts an awful lot of stress on the small arbor and bearings in a saw that size.
I am going to be a contrarian here..
Certainly the first thing when making a decision regarding a new piece of equipment would be to take into account what will be required to power it, 3HP to 5HP is not a great leap. If the 5HP requires an expensive upgrade to the service while the 3HP does not, then I would agree to stick with the 3, depending on your budget. If your existing service will handle it or you have the budget for an upgrade then it's a no brainer, get the 5HP. It is far better for a little overkill vs. an underpowered saw.
I don't mean to offend but he idea that a 5hp motor will place more strain on bearings and arbor makes no sense to me, I would argue quite the opposite. A smaller motor will labor more to do the same work as the larger one thus generating more heat, putting more wear and tear on it's windings etc.
As for the arbor, what does it matter what is hanging on the other end of the belt as long as there is sufficient power to allow a reasonable feed rate as you rip the, say, 8/4 oak? (Ripping heavy stock is always the issue) However if your small motor is laboring and you find yourself pushing to the point of bogging it down to maintain a reasonable feed rate then I would say the bearings are seeing more pushing force vs a larger motor which is easily capable of maintaining rpm's throughout the cut. The other unhappy solution to a saw laboring through the cut is to slow down the feed rate, although it will reduce the strain on the motor, the feed will not be sufficient to carry away the heat generated by the friction of the blade against the wood. This will cause premature dulling and glazing of the blade, which generates more heat, more dulling and more power from an already straining motor and on and on.....
If you have done your due diligence regarding the service requirements of your new toy, and I will assume you have. In my opinion your first instincts were right. Ignore the naysayers and buy the 5HP saw.
Best of Luck
Rob
I have had a 5 HP and a 3 HP Unisaw for over 30 years. The 5 HP has lots more torque if you need it and it is about the same cost as the 3 HP. Don't let anyone talk you out of getting the 5 HP. It's a great saw.
Considering he made his purchase in 2012 he has probably already upgraded to a Sawstop.
holly crap, i just posted a long winded comment without even noticing the date of the original question. i feel less than smart.
like many others here, i too have a small (3 car garage ~550 sq ft) home shop. of the dozen or so machines i managed to squeeze in, 5 have 5hp motors (jointer, planer, table saw, bandsaw and dust collector). having owned under-powered machines in the past, i cannot even begin to explain the joy and convenience of using powerful machinery. i often work with 12/4 sugar maple and having my 12 inch table saw slice through it like hot knife through butter is a very good feeling.
as for power. i too, like a lot of others ran a 60amp branch circuit to a sub-panel powering my entire shop. every machine has a dedicated circuit breaker. i don't know a lot about the unisaw, mine is a grizzly g0696x, and it's 5hp motor runs off of a 30amp circuit and draws less than 22amps. i wonder why delta has such power requirements for theirs.
My comment is way too late for Mr. Head but going from a contractor saw to a 3 HP unit as I did requires reviewing safety procedures. Stuff you can get away with on a contractor saw will bite you with the bigger unit.
In what way? I've found the opposite -- that too little power can be hazardous.
Kick back is way more violent. Waaaaay more. Proper hold down tools, splitter, no free hand to name a few things.
If kickback is something you're trying to get away with you're already asking for trouble no matter what saw you have. If you have "no free hand" the accident must have been pretty bad!
Hi....different components are cited in the NEC for what % of a wire's heap you should run on it. Notwithstanding, the "official" numbers are ALREADY derated, both for temperature and burden. Nonetheless, for NON COMMERCIAL, that is non-full-time use, with respect to example a tablesaw hobbiest who turns the machine on/off yet doesn't leave it running 3-5 hours, 80%-85% are regularly utilized.
16.2 amps = .85 X, so X= 16.2/.85 = 19 amps. Thusly, 20 amps wire would work for ordinary constant activity... which is 12 measure wire.
Be that as it may, when you look on the engine's bulletin, the AMPS expressed will be HIGHER than we just determined, and this is because of different force pulls under high burden, and on fire up. For example, my 3hp PM66 states "15 amps" for 230v.
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